DCGN Top 20% No Journal or WE, Biglaw chances?

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
Anonymous User
Posts: 273091
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

DCGN Top 20% No Journal or WE, Biglaw chances?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:09 am

Would prefer to stay within market paying firms in NYC.

User avatar
DallasCowboy
Posts: 650
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:47 am

Re: DCGN Top 20% No Journal or WE, Biglaw chances?

Postby DallasCowboy » Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:22 am

yours to lose, maybe not with G

Anonymous User
Posts: 273091
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: DCGN Top 20% No Journal or WE, Biglaw chances?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:27 am

DallasCowboy wrote:yours to lose, maybe not with G

It's not G. Thanks.

User avatar
rayiner
Posts: 6184
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:43 am

Re: DCGN Top 20% No Journal or WE, Biglaw chances?

Postby rayiner » Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:42 am

Very good shot at V25, and decent shot at V10. Make sure to get interviews with Skadden, K&E NY, Weil, Paul Weiss, Debevoise, etc, as these are your reachy-targets/targets. Don't forget the safeties, but also don't forget the reaches. CSM, S&C, DPW, STB, and Cleary are all worth bids. Killing the interviews will be crucial. Do not under-bid. Once you're in the grade range for V10, which you are, bidding there is actually safer because with each bid you're applying for 100+ SA spots.

lawyerwannabe
Posts: 945
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:39 pm

Re: DCGN Top 20% No Journal or WE, Biglaw chances?

Postby lawyerwannabe » Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:31 pm

DallasCowboy wrote:yours to lose, maybe not with G


That cannot be right. Top 20% at G has to still be in great shape for OCI.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273091
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: DCGN Top 20% No Journal or WE, Biglaw chances?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:44 pm

rayiner wrote:Very good shot at V25, and decent shot at V10. Make sure to get interviews with Skadden, K&E NY, Weil, Paul Weiss, Debevoise, etc, as these are your reachy-targets/targets. Don't forget the safeties, but also don't forget the reaches. CSM, S&C, DPW, STB, and Cleary are all worth bids. Killing the interviews will be crucial. Do not under-bid. Once you're in the grade range for V10, which you are, bidding there is actually safer because with each bid you're applying for 100+ SA spots.

Is V10 "target" for top 20% from DNCG? What about from MVP? Same, top 1/4, top 1/3?
Last edited by Anonymous User on Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273091
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: DCGN Top 20% No Journal or WE, Biglaw chances?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:45 pm

.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273091
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: DCGN Top 20% No Journal or WE, Biglaw chances?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
rayiner wrote:Very good shot at V25, and decent shot at V10. Make sure to get interviews with Skadden, K&E NY, Weil, Paul Weiss, Debevoise, etc, as these are your reachy-targets/targets. Don't forget the safeties, but also don't forget the reaches. CSM, S&C, DPW, STB, and Cleary are all worth bids. Killing the interviews will be crucial. Do not under-bid. Once you're in the grade range for V10, which you are, bidding there is actually safer because with each bid you're applying for 100+ SA spots.

Is V10 "target" for top 20% from DNCG? What about from MVP? Same, top 1/4, top 1/3?


You cannot be serious. Unless it's P, then maybe. MVPDCNG are all in the same tier.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273091
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: DCGN Top 20% No Journal or WE, Biglaw chances?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
rayiner wrote:Very good shot at V25, and decent shot at V10. Make sure to get interviews with Skadden, K&E NY, Weil, Paul Weiss, Debevoise, etc, as these are your reachy-targets/targets. Don't forget the safeties, but also don't forget the reaches. CSM, S&C, DPW, STB, and Cleary are all worth bids. Killing the interviews will be crucial. Do not under-bid. Once you're in the grade range for V10, which you are, bidding there is actually safer because with each bid you're applying for 100+ SA spots.

Is V10 "target" for top 20% from DNCG? What about from MVP? Same, top 1/4, top 1/3?


You cannot be serious. Unless it's P, then maybe. MVPDCNG are all in the same tier.

K. But what about the original question - top 20% from those schools usually a decent bet to land at least one of the less selective V10s? I am trying to figure out my bid list myself.

User avatar
rayiner
Posts: 6184
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:43 am

Re: DCGN Top 20% No Journal or WE, Biglaw chances?

Postby rayiner » Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:58 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
rayiner wrote:Very good shot at V25, and decent shot at V10. Make sure to get interviews with Skadden, K&E NY, Weil, Paul Weiss, Debevoise, etc, as these are your reachy-targets/targets. Don't forget the safeties, but also don't forget the reaches. CSM, S&C, DPW, STB, and Cleary are all worth bids. Killing the interviews will be crucial. Do not under-bid. Once you're in the grade range for V10, which you are, bidding there is actually safer because with each bid you're applying for 100+ SA spots.

Is V10 "target" for top 20% from DNCG? What about from MVP? Same, top 1/4, top 1/3?


For someone at the top 20% mark at MVDNC, the set of V10+Latham/Debevoise/Paul Weiss/Shearman contains a solid set of targets and reaches. Even out to the top 1/3, I'd say this grouping of firms represents a reasonable play, though CSM/S&C probably fall out of the running at that point and the targets become reach-ier.

I think Penn has special pull in NYC, so I'd be more aggressive from there. I think if you're anything above median at Penn then Skadden, K&E, and Weil are reasonably in play, and Cleary/STB are reasonable reaches. Remember, the V15-ish NYC firms are getting back up to boom-levels of hiring. Since they're competing with each other, they've needed to start digging deeper into the classes. We're not quite at the point where V10's are regularly going below median at CCNP, like they used to, but we're also not at C/O 2011 where Skadden had ~30 SA's and hired only from the top 10%.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273091
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: DCGN Top 20% No Journal or WE, Biglaw chances?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:10 pm

DallasCowboy wrote:yours to lose, maybe not with G


False

DouglasDevelopment
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 1:54 pm

Re: DCGN Top 20% No Journal or WE, Biglaw chances?

Postby DouglasDevelopment » Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:45 pm

DallasCowboy wrote:yours to lose, maybe not with G


Definitely false. Yes, GULC has lower NLJ250 numbers but that is mostly due to class size. If you have top grades you will be competitive when stack against other lower T14 students.

It's not like partners are sitting around going "Top 20% at Duke? Absolutely. Top 20% at GULC? LOLNO totally different ballgame"

User avatar
rayiner
Posts: 6184
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:43 am

Re: DCGN Top 20% No Journal or WE, Biglaw chances?

Postby rayiner » Tue Jun 05, 2012 10:18 pm

DouglasDevelopment wrote:
DallasCowboy wrote:yours to lose, maybe not with G


It's not like partners are sitting around going "Top 20% at Duke? Absolutely. Top 20% at GULC? LOLNO totally different ballgame"


1) This is definitely true;
2) Top 20% at GULC is clearly secure for big law assuming proper execution;
3) Huge class size affects top 20% too. A firm might consider a single top 20% at GULC the same as a single top 20% at Duke, but it'll have three times as many applications from the former and probably won't allocate three times as many callback slots. There's a real disadvantage to being so huge as to have half a dozen people in the top 1%.

User avatar
mottainai
Posts: 211
Joined: Mon May 10, 2010 12:17 am

Re: DCGN Top 20% No Journal or WE, Biglaw chances?

Postby mottainai » Tue Jun 05, 2012 11:03 pm

rayiner wrote:
DouglasDevelopment wrote:
DallasCowboy wrote:yours to lose, maybe not with G


It's not like partners are sitting around going "Top 20% at Duke? Absolutely. Top 20% at GULC? LOLNO totally different ballgame"


1) This is definitely true;
2) Top 20% at GULC is clearly secure for big law assuming proper execution;
3) Huge class size affects top 20% too. A firm might consider a single top 20% at GULC the same as a single top 20% at Duke, but it'll have three times as many applications from the former and probably won't allocate three times as many callback slots. There's a real disadvantage to being so huge as to have half a dozen people in the top 1%.


Just out of curiousity, for Duke, what is the general consensus on the cut off point for a decent shot at biglaw?

User avatar
DallasCowboy
Posts: 650
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:47 am

Re: DCGN Top 20% No Journal or WE, Biglaw chances?

Postby DallasCowboy » Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:05 am

I know of non-urms with a 3.2 (median is supposedly 3.3) at V25-100. IPsecure with whatever. Other than that, I think you have a realistic shot for a southern 6-figure firm with a 3.anything.

And wrt GULC, I wasn't trying to bash, I just do not know since I go to Duke. Our small class and wide distribution geographically really helps. Interview well and you can get a job like everyone I know did.

chipchip
Posts: 94
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:56 pm

Re: DCGN Top 20% No Journal or WE, Biglaw chances?

Postby chipchip » Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:49 am

3) Huge class size affects top 20% too. A firm might consider a single top 20% at GULC the same as a single top 20% at Duke, but it'll have three times as many applications from the former and probably won't allocate three times as many callback slots. There's a real disadvantage to being so huge as to have half a dozen people in the top 1%.


(GULCer here.) You may have more applications, but there's still a set number of screeners each firm allows (some of the big ones only do 20 interviews, e.g., Arnold & Porter -- unless that changed this year), so it's not like they're required to meet with 3x as many people anyway. The firms know how to work this and anyone in the Top 20% should be fairly set for getting a job as long as you can interview well and bid properly. Like every school, of course, not everyone does that...

User avatar
rayiner
Posts: 6184
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:43 am

Re: DCGN Top 20% No Journal or WE, Biglaw chances?

Postby rayiner » Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:20 am

chipchip wrote:
3) Huge class size affects top 20% too. A firm might consider a single top 20% at GULC the same as a single top 20% at Duke, but it'll have three times as many applications from the former and probably won't allocate three times as many callback slots. There's a real disadvantage to being so huge as to have half a dozen people in the top 1%.


(GULCer here.) You may have more applications, but there's still a set number of screeners each firm allows (some of the big ones only do 20 interviews, e.g., Arnold & Porter -- unless that changed this year), so it's not like they're required to meet with 3x as many people anyway. The firms know how to work this and anyone in the Top 20% should be fairly set for getting a job as long as you can interview well and bid properly. Like every school, of course, not everyone does that...


I don't disagree that top 20% at GULC is big law secure. My point was that the large class size doesn't just affect placement for the bottom of the class, but at the top 20% mark too.

For example, top 20% at DNC has a pretty decent shot at V10. However, I know for a fact that the V10 firms do not hire 2-3x as many GULC kids as DNC kids. The SA classes at places like S&C or DPW have a similar number of Duke, NU, etc, associates as GULC ones. So with more people competing for the same number of spots, I wouldn't be as confident in getting a V10 job from top 20% at GULC.

User avatar
BruceWayne
Posts: 2032
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:36 pm

Re: DCGN Top 20% No Journal or WE, Biglaw chances?

Postby BruceWayne » Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:38 am

DallasCowboy wrote:I know of non-urms with a 3.2 (median is supposedly 3.3) at V25-100. IPsecure with whatever. Other than that, I think you have a realistic shot for a southern 6-figure firm with a 3.anything.

And wrt GULC, I wasn't trying to bash, I just do not know since I go to Duke. Our small class and wide distribution geographically really helps. Interview well and you can get a job like everyone I know did.


As a warning, although I don't go to Duke, I do go to UVA and I know people who went to Duke; but "realistic shot for a Southern firm with 3. anything" doesn't apply to Atlanta. It should hold for the rest of the South though. And I'm not saying it's impossible to get an Atlanta firm job with a with a "3. anything" but it's going to be hella difficult if that 3.anything is median or below. And I mean hella difficult.

User avatar
DallasCowboy
Posts: 650
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:47 am

Re: DCGN Top 20% No Journal or WE, Biglaw chances?

Postby DallasCowboy » Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:11 am

Agree about Atlanta. I forget that's even an option these days.




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.