straight through and OCI

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PriOSky
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 9:14 pm

straight through and OCI

Postby PriOSky » Wed May 30, 2012 11:05 pm

Other than 1L grades and fit (two biggest factors obviously), what other factors matter for someone who when straight through to law school at OCI? I heard that awards/honors during college matter at law school OCI for people who went straight through, but do awards/honors have to be something super rare/impressive like graduating with a major GPA of 4.0 on a hard curve in economics at an Ivy or in engineering at Stanford/MIT in order to matter at all? Or do less rare/impressive awards/honors matter as well for those who went straight through?

rad lulz
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Re: straight through and OCI

Postby rad lulz » Wed May 30, 2012 11:18 pm

I had 3 solid 40 hr a week paralegal/legal assistant summer jerbs that people liked hearing about. Plus 1L summer jerb was relevant to desired practice area.

anongoodnurse
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Re: straight through and OCI

Postby anongoodnurse » Wed May 30, 2012 11:30 pm

super rare/impressive like graduating with a major GPA of 4.0 on a hard curve in economics at an Ivy or in engineering at Stanford/MIT


A 4.0 major GPA in Econ at an Ivy is not rare, and it's impressiveness is debatable. I guess the dispositive question would be whether this person took -- and aced -- grad-level Real Analysis. (Diff Eq, Linear Algebra and whatever the school calls Calc IV are presumed.) If not, then it's a glorified Poli Sci degree.

A 4.0 in engineering at Stanford or MIT, on the other hand, is seriously attention-grabbing. (At least a real engineering degree like ME/EE/Chem). Though why someone who aced the math, science and engineering classes at Stanford or MIT would want to go to law school is beyond me.

icpb
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Re: straight through and OCI

Postby icpb » Wed May 30, 2012 11:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
super rare/impressive like graduating with a major GPA of 4.0 on a hard curve in economics at an Ivy or in engineering at Stanford/MIT


A 4.0 major GPA in Econ at an Ivy is not rare, and it's impressiveness is debatable. I guess the dispositive question would be whether this person took -- and aced -- grad-level Real Analysis. (Diff Eq, Linear Algebra and whatever the school calls Calc IV are presumed.) If not, then it's a glorified Poli Sci degree.


I disagree. I don't know if you have studied economics at an Ivy before. At the Ivy that I attended, all econ courses were math-heavy (definitely can't be compared to poli sci) and graded on strict curves with B medians. What made getting a 4.0 in economics at an Ivy (not just any school) extremely difficult is that 1. it's a popular major for ambitious students, 2. everyone is gunning for those few A's in each class, and 3. A- counts as 3.67. You are competing with people aiming for PE/hedge fund/Goldman/McKinsey in your econ classes. I doubt that Ivy League schools graduate more than 15 people with 4.0 in economics each year; I doubt any would be attending law school immediately since most would be working at Blackstone, Bain Capital, etc. At least at my school, getting 4.0 in economics was a lot more impressive than getting a 4.0 in engineering. Maybe getting a 4.0 in econ from a state school is much easier.

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acrossthelake
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Re: straight through and OCI

Postby acrossthelake » Wed May 30, 2012 11:51 pm

My understanding from people I've talked to who interview isn't that it doesn't necessarily function in such a straightforward way. The person is just generally trying to get a feel for whether this is a person who tends to excel and will continue to excel. Actual past success in the work place is a great barometer, but for someone going straight through, they have to rely on the possible undergrad indicators. So, holistically, do all the things you accomplished in undergrad in sum give the impression that you excel? Some awards can help with that, though it's obv. not necessary.

Though, take it with a grain of salt that this is second-hand knowledge from people I've talked to who used to interview for firms.

1988AndX
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Re: straight through and OCI

Postby 1988AndX » Wed May 30, 2012 11:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
super rare/impressive like graduating with a major GPA of 4.0 on a hard curve in economics at an Ivy or in engineering at Stanford/MIT


A 4.0 major GPA in Econ at an Ivy is not rare, and it's impressiveness is debatable. I guess the dispositive question would be whether this person took -- and aced -- grad-level Real Analysis. (Diff Eq, Linear Algebra and whatever the school calls Calc IV are presumed.) If not, then it's a glorified Poli Sci degree.


I disagree. I don't know if you have studied economics at an Ivy before. At the Ivy that I attended, all econ courses were math-heavy (definitely can't be compared to poli sci) and graded on strict curves with B medians. What made getting a 4.0 in economics at an Ivy (not just any school) extremely difficult is that 1. it's a popular major for ambitious students, 2. everyone is gunning for those few A's in each class, and 3. A- counts as 3.67. You are competing with people aiming for PE/hedge fund/Goldman/McKinsey in your econ classes. I doubt that Ivy League schools graduate more than 15 people with 4.0 in economics each year; I doubt any would be attending law school immediately since most would be working at Blackstone, Bain Capital, etc. At least at my school, getting 4.0 in economics was a lot more impressive than getting a 4.0 in engineering. Maybe getting a 4.0 in econ from a state school is much easier.


I attend a non-HYS Ivy, econ is one of the hardest majors (with median GPA of 3.3). People here thinks that if you do well in engineering (3.95+), then you are smart and you work hard. If you do well in econ 3.95+, you are extremely smart (and lucky).

anstone1988
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Re: straight through and OCI

Postby anstone1988 » Thu May 31, 2012 12:04 am

1988AndX wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
super rare/impressive like graduating with a major GPA of 4.0 on a hard curve in economics at an Ivy or in engineering at Stanford/MIT


A 4.0 major GPA in Econ at an Ivy is not rare, and it's impressiveness is debatable. I guess the dispositive question would be whether this person took -- and aced -- grad-level Real Analysis. (Diff Eq, Linear Algebra and whatever the school calls Calc IV are presumed.) If not, then it's a glorified Poli Sci degree.


I disagree. I don't know if you have studied economics at an Ivy before. At the Ivy that I attended, all econ courses were math-heavy (definitely can't be compared to poli sci) and graded on strict curves with B medians. What made getting a 4.0 in economics at an Ivy (not just any school) extremely difficult is that 1. it's a popular major for ambitious students, 2. everyone is gunning for those few A's in each class, and 3. A- counts as 3.67. You are competing with people aiming for PE/hedge fund/Goldman/McKinsey in your econ classes. I doubt that Ivy League schools graduate more than 15 people with 4.0 in economics each year; I doubt any would be attending law school immediately since most would be working at Blackstone, Bain Capital, etc. At least at my school, getting 4.0 in economics was a lot more impressive than getting a 4.0 in engineering. Maybe getting a 4.0 in econ from a state school is much easier.


I attend a non-HYS Ivy, econ is one of the hardest majors (with median GPA of 3.3). People here thinks that if you do well in engineering (3.95+), then you are smart and you work hard. If you do well in econ 3.95+, you are extremely smart (and lucky).


Econ and engineering are hard in different ways. Engineering require a lot of work and taking a lot of courses, while Econ is the most cutthroat major at Ivies due to competition for investment banking and consulting (4.0's probably get a shot at straight to private equity). Econ is not among the most difficult major per se, but doing extremely well in econ is extremely hard at an Ivy.

anongoodnurse
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Re: straight through and OCI

Postby anongoodnurse » Thu May 31, 2012 12:10 am

I disagree. I don't know if you have studied economics at an Ivy before. At the Ivy that I attended, all econ courses were math-heavy (definitely can't be compared to poli sci) and graded on strict curves with B medians. What made getting a 4.0 in economics at an Ivy (not just any school) extremely difficult is that 1. it's a popular major for ambitious students, 2. everyone is gunning for those few A's in each class, and 3. A- counts as 3.67. You are competing with people aiming for PE/hedge fund/Goldman/McKinsey in your econ classes. I doubt that Ivy League schools graduate more than 15 people with 4.0 in economics each year; I doubt any would be attending law school immediately since most would be working at Blackstone, Bain Capital, etc. At least at my school, getting 4.0 in economics was a lot more impressive than getting a 4.0 in engineering. Maybe getting a 4.0 in econ from a state school is much easier.


OK. What were your grades in Diff Eq, Linear Algebra, Advanced Analysis/Calc IV/Mathematical Methods, and Real Analysis? (Mine were A-, B+, A and B- -- though the last was a 2:2 at an Oxbridge that was subsequently converted, so it's a little apples-to-oranges.) And can you name a single ME/EE/Chem E major with a 4.0 in all engineering/math/hard science/comp sci classes? Because if so, they're wicked smart. Much smarter than anyone I know.

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acrossthelake
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Re: straight through and OCI

Postby acrossthelake » Thu May 31, 2012 12:19 am

Anonymous User wrote:OK. What were your grades in Diff Eq, Linear Algebra, Advanced Analysis/Calc IV/Mathematical Methods, and Real Analysis? (Mine were A-, B+, A and B- -- though the last was a 2:2 at an Oxbridge that was subsequently converted, so it's a little apples-to-oranges.) And can you name a single ME/EE/Chem E major with a 4.0 in all engineering/math/hard science/comp sci classes? Because if so, they're wicked smart. Much smarter than anyone I know.


I know an MIT EE major who got a 4.0 and finished his UG degree in 3 years. Anyway, this argument doesn't actually matter since it's only the opinion of the interviewer that matters. If an interviewer is impressed by a 4.0 in Econ from an interviewer, then power to the interviewee.

ETA: Also, guys, it's not like the Econ Depts of all Ivies are equal. WHICH ones are we talking about?

icpb
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Re: straight through and OCI

Postby icpb » Thu May 31, 2012 12:27 am

Anonymous User wrote:
I disagree. I don't know if you have studied economics at an Ivy before. At the Ivy that I attended, all econ courses were math-heavy (definitely can't be compared to poli sci) and graded on strict curves with B medians. What made getting a 4.0 in economics at an Ivy (not just any school) extremely difficult is that 1. it's a popular major for ambitious students, 2. everyone is gunning for those few A's in each class, and 3. A- counts as 3.67. You are competing with people aiming for PE/hedge fund/Goldman/McKinsey in your econ classes. I doubt that Ivy League schools graduate more than 15 people with 4.0 in economics each year; I doubt any would be attending law school immediately since most would be working at Blackstone, Bain Capital, etc. At least at my school, getting 4.0 in economics was a lot more impressive than getting a 4.0 in engineering. Maybe getting a 4.0 in econ from a state school is much easier.


OK. What were your grades in Diff Eq, Linear Algebra, Advanced Analysis/Calc IV/Mathematical Methods, and Real Analysis? (Mine were A-, B+, A and B- -- though the last was a 2:2 at an Oxbridge that was subsequently converted, so it's a little apples-to-oranges.) And can you name a single ME/EE/Chem E major with a 4.0 in all engineering/math/hard science/comp sci classes? Because if so, they're wicked smart. Much smarter than anyone I know.


Not sure about Advanced Analysis, but the median grades for Diff Eq, Linear Algebra, Real Analysis at my school were all A-. Getting straight As in econ is hard because you always need to among the top 5-7 performers in every class to end up with a 4.0 (maybe with the exception of Brown), and that's hard due to all the gunners in your classes at Ivy/top PE/HF/IB targets.

1988AndX
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Re: straight through and OCI

Postby 1988AndX » Thu May 31, 2012 12:31 am

Having gone to an Ivy, I would think that a person with a 4.0 in econ to be more impressive than a 4.0 in engineering/hard sciences. However if I had to Stanford/MIT/Caltech, maybe I would be more impressed with the person with a 4.0 in engineering/hard sciences.

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dresden doll
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Re: straight through and OCI

Postby dresden doll » Thu May 31, 2012 12:39 am

I guess the take-home point from this thread is that whether your interviewer is impressed depends on his own background. Revolutionary.

19871987
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Re: straight through and OCI

Postby 19871987 » Thu May 31, 2012 12:46 am

1988AndX wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
super rare/impressive like graduating with a major GPA of 4.0 on a hard curve in economics at an Ivy or in engineering at Stanford/MIT


A 4.0 major GPA in Econ at an Ivy is not rare, and it's impressiveness is debatable. I guess the dispositive question would be whether this person took -- and aced -- grad-level Real Analysis. (Diff Eq, Linear Algebra and whatever the school calls Calc IV are presumed.) If not, then it's a glorified Poli Sci degree.


I disagree. I don't know if you have studied economics at an Ivy before. At the Ivy that I attended, all econ courses were math-heavy (definitely can't be compared to poli sci) and graded on strict curves with B medians. What made getting a 4.0 in economics at an Ivy (not just any school) extremely difficult is that 1. it's a popular major for ambitious students, 2. everyone is gunning for those few A's in each class, and 3. A- counts as 3.67. You are competing with people aiming for PE/hedge fund/Goldman/McKinsey in your econ classes. I doubt that Ivy League schools graduate more than 15 people with 4.0 in economics each year; I doubt any would be attending law school immediately since most would be working at Blackstone, Bain Capital, etc. At least at my school, getting 4.0 in economics was a lot more impressive than getting a 4.0 in engineering. Maybe getting a 4.0 in econ from a state school is much easier.


I attend a non-HYS Ivy, econ is one of the hardest majors (with median GPA of 3.3). People here thinks that if you do well in engineering (3.95+), then you are smart and you work hard. If you do well in econ 3.95+, you are extremely smart (and lucky).


At Brown econ is the jock major, known to be one of the easiest. Just FYI.

Anonymous User
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Re: straight through and OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Thu May 31, 2012 12:52 am

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Last edited by Anonymous User on Thu May 31, 2012 12:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

icpb
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Re: straight through and OCI

Postby icpb » Thu May 31, 2012 12:54 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:At Brown econ is the jock major, known to be one of the easiest. Just FYI.


Brown is a special case among the Ivies because 1. it has lax grading and 2. it suffers less from Wall Street-mania. Econ itself is not hard to learn, but getting 3.95+ let along 4.0 is tough (especially at Ivies with +/- or w/ A- but w/o A+) due to 1. cutthroat classmates aiming for PE/VC/Goldman/etc. and 2. strict curve; if you get one A- (which is doing better than all but a few classmates), then you would never get a 4.0 in econ. I feel that a person need to go to Princeton, Dartmouth, or Cornell to understand the difficulty of getting a 4.0 in Econ. Few if any students from those schools achieve that each year.

SHANbangs
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Re: straight through and OCI

Postby SHANbangs » Thu May 31, 2012 1:09 am

having not gone to an ivy, i would like to see the discussion get back to the OP's original question.

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acrossthelake
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Re: straight through and OCI

Postby acrossthelake » Thu May 31, 2012 1:12 am

PriOsky, icpb, anstone, and 1988AndX are all posting from the same IP. :lol:

ETA: Also, while Brown's Econ definitely um could step up the extent to which they include math in their courses, the jock major is actually COE.

jd20132013
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Re: straight through and OCI

Postby jd20132013 » Thu May 31, 2012 1:30 am

acrossthelake wrote:PriOsky, icpb, anstone, and 1988AndX are all posting from the same IP. :lol:



what is this i dont even

r6_philly
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Re: straight through and OCI

Postby r6_philly » Thu May 31, 2012 1:30 am

acrossthelake wrote:PriOsky, icpb, anstone, and 1988AndX are all posting from the same IP. :lol:


Brown, and no 4.0.

Employers like my 4.0, regardless of whether they know the school or not. It's hard to argue how you could do any better.

Anonymous User
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Re: straight through and OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:41 pm

anstone1988 wrote:
1988AndX wrote:I attend a non-HYS Ivy, econ is one of the hardest majors (with median GPA of 3.3). People here thinks that if you do well in engineering (3.95+), then you are smart and you work hard. If you do well in econ 3.95+, you are extremely smart (and lucky).


Econ and engineering are hard in different ways. Engineering require a lot of work and taking a lot of courses, while Econ is the most cutthroat major at Ivies due to competition for investment banking and consulting (4.0's probably get a shot at straight to private equity). Econ is not among the most difficult major per se, but doing extremely well in econ is extremely hard at an Ivy.


At my HYS undergrad, I had many brilliant friends, including one who got the Marshall AND the Rhodes... and not a single one of them had a 4.0.




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