Negotiating higher salary for summer associateship.

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Anonymous User
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Negotiating higher salary for summer associateship.

Postby Anonymous User » Sat May 26, 2012 4:15 pm

I'm a 1L. I have an offer from a firm (mid-law, secondary market) that pays very well, but the job will suck. I have an offer from an in-house legal department, that pays 1/2 of what the firm pays, but the job will be awesome and will help me more during 2L recruiting.

I'm at a t-14 and have relevant experience as a paralegal. All the other applicants for the in-house position are from TTT schools w/o any relevant experience, so I know they want me, and are probably willing to pay more. How do work it?

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cantaboot
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Re: Negotiating higher salary for summer associateship.

Postby cantaboot » Sat May 26, 2012 4:36 pm

Just say to them what you have said to us.

ran12
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Re: Negotiating higher salary for summer associateship.

Postby ran12 » Sat May 26, 2012 4:40 pm

Don't assume that the company will pay you more because you go to a better school and have relevant experience. Relevant experience doesn't really matter for any SA. The experience helps you get the interview but it doesn't make a big difference in actually getting the job done. The in house position is probably paid based on an annual budget of some sort so for them to give you a better offer, they would have to either go outside their budget or take less interns if they are planning on more than one. Neither situation really makes sense esp. considering that most in house positions are just for experience and the companies don't plan to offer full time in most instances. In house depts like people who have firm experience before hiring them full time.

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dood
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Re: Negotiating higher salary for summer associateship.

Postby dood » Sat May 26, 2012 5:08 pm

is this a joke/flame? or r u foreign (serious Q)?

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Ludo!
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Re: Negotiating higher salary for summer associateship.

Postby Ludo! » Sat May 26, 2012 5:13 pm

Nobody is going to negotiate salary for 1l summer work

CanadianWolf
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Re: Negotiating higher salary for summer associateship.

Postby CanadianWolf » Sat May 26, 2012 6:11 pm

At this early stage of your career you probably should focus on the opportunity to make connections & on the training rather than on salary especially since this is at most a 3 month long position. After all, how much can you really help this company over the course of a single summer ?

NotMyRealName09
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Re: Negotiating higher salary for summer associateship.

Postby NotMyRealName09 » Sat May 26, 2012 6:46 pm

Shutup. If you do this, your prickish sense of entitlement will shine so bright that, if I met you and had any chance to influence the decision, I'd ensure you never worked at the same place I did. Either this is fake, or you deserve to get your dreams crushed because of your own actions.

Want to know what paralegals are to me? Not lawyers. Smart, hard working, valuable no doubt - probably excellent at things I shouldn't be billing clients for. But not lawyers. Don't cite paralegal experience. It begs the question - why didn't you become a lawyer much earlier if you cared so much (or were capable)?

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Bronte
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Re: Negotiating higher salary for summer associateship.

Postby Bronte » Sat May 26, 2012 6:51 pm

You should work at the firm. The in house position is a dead end. The 1L position as least increases your chances of getting a 2L position there. This will be good if you end up having slim pickings at OCI.

Anonymous User
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Re: Negotiating higher salary for summer associateship.

Postby Anonymous User » Sat May 26, 2012 7:25 pm

OP here. I guess I should add more details.

I worked as a paralegal for two years doing a very narrow, specific type of contract work for a very specific type of client. The in-house work is for a legal department that just became flooded with that same type of work. It's an 11 week job and I would be able to make an appreciable dent in their back-log during that time. I don't need any time to acclimate and I can do this work independently . . . basically, I can hit the ground running. My qualifications for this job aren't about talent, it's coincidental, really.

With the in-house job, I'll be able to work w/ people at V10 firms (making connections) and do interesting work. I'd have interesting things to talk about during 2L interviews. But at the firm job I'll be doing mostly secretarial work, filling out time sheets and getting coffee. I'll also have to move to another state.

I hope that makes my position clearer. I'd really appreciate tips on negotiating a higher salary.

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Stonewall
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Re: Negotiating higher salary for summer associateship.

Postby Stonewall » Sat May 26, 2012 7:36 pm

since you seem to be serious, I can't help but think you are the exact type that gets no-offered and then wonders why. You will come off as petty and loyal only to the money (even if that is the case) if you attempt this

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cantaboot
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Re: Negotiating higher salary for summer associateship.

Postby cantaboot » Sat May 26, 2012 7:44 pm

even if you were able to negotiate for a higher pay it wouln't be that much higher. it won't be worth it.

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kalvano
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Re: Negotiating higher salary for summer associateship.

Postby kalvano » Sat May 26, 2012 7:44 pm

You're a 1L. Try and get bitchy about the fact that you aren't getting paid up to your standards and the places can find a couple hundred more who would love to find a paying 1L job.


Shut up and enjoy being paid to work 1L summer.

Anonymous User
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Re: Negotiating higher salary for summer associateship.

Postby Anonymous User » Sat May 26, 2012 8:07 pm

All right guys, thanks. I support two other people besides myself so I have to consider pay. If that makes me loyal only to money, petty, and bitchy, with a prickish sense of entitlement, so be it. Frankly, with the in-house job I will have to have a night job or something.

I know I'm lucky to have paying 1L work. But it's a luxury to be able to work for free or low pay. To work for free you have to have credit cards or some sort of financial backing, especially if you are the sole income earner. I will not have any source of income other than my summer job, so I have to consider pay.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sat May 26, 2012 8:20 pm, edited 3 times in total.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Negotiating higher salary for summer associateship.

Postby CanadianWolf » Sat May 26, 2012 8:08 pm

Show them your value. You may or may not get some type of additional benefit or compensation, but they'll certainly remember you in a positive light. And that's a good thing in a tough economy. Also, it's only eleven weeks--how much more pay are you seeking ? To be blunt, this is an attitude expected of an hourly wage earner, not someone training for a professional position.

P.S. I'm sure that you've encountered hourly workers that earn more than their supervisors or managers during a busy season due to overtime pay. Attorney positions, unless contract work, are usually not hourly positions.

TooOld4This
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Re: Negotiating higher salary for summer associateship.

Postby TooOld4This » Sat May 26, 2012 8:11 pm

OP's position is not crazy. Since OP has two offers on the table it would be pretty low risk to inquire as to whether or not there is any flexibility in the in house salary. Simply express genuine enthusiasim for the in-house position, but be frank that you have an offer for double. Say that you would rather the work I -house, and recognize that they probably can't match, but ask if there is any room to adjust the pay.

However, doing paralegal-type work for less money is not better resume fodder/experience than going to a firm. And the "networking" opportunities will likely be limited and not valuable. Also, 1/2 salary between in house and firm is about right.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Negotiating higher salary for summer associateship.

Postby CanadianWolf » Sat May 26, 2012 8:15 pm

Reread the OP's second post. OP will be working with others from Vault 10 law firms. The higher paying position is secretarial & involves retrieving/making coffee. Plus, the higher paying position requires a move to another state.

TooOld4This
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Re: Negotiating higher salary for summer associateship.

Postby TooOld4This » Sat May 26, 2012 8:23 pm

I did read OP's second post. Work as a paralegal with a firm that would allow OP to be plug & play at a company is most likely very document intensive. That means "working with attorneys at a V10" will be the bottom of the totem pole first year associates who don't offer particularly meaningful connections.

It does not sound like a job that will provide professional opportunities worth a 50% pay cut. If the other costs of the second job eat into the financial aspect, that is a different issue. While the work sounds more like what OP would enjoy -- either will check the box for a 1l job.

Renzo
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Re: Negotiating higher salary for summer associateship.

Postby Renzo » Sat May 26, 2012 10:28 pm

Asking for more money as a 1L SA seems like an almost sure-fire way to ensure you don't get invited back full-time, so why even consider the job? Just take the in-house paralegal job.

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holdencaulfield
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Re: Negotiating higher salary for summer associateship.

Postby holdencaulfield » Sun May 27, 2012 1:51 am

Be honest, but don't ask for more money. Tell the low-paying gig you'd love to work there, but explain you need the higher-paying gig to take care of your family. If they are willing to pay more, perhaps they'll offer to do so.

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dood
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Re: Negotiating higher salary for summer associateship.

Postby dood » Sun May 27, 2012 5:34 am

Anonymous User wrote:I don't need any time to acclimate and I can do this work independently . . . But at the firm job I'll be doing mostly secretarial work, filling out time sheets and getting coffee.


1) i dont see how u know or can assume secretarial work is what u'll be doing at the firm. i dont know any law students who have done "mostly secretarial work" as a SA at any size or type of firm.

2) have u considered that by NOT doing what u'r acclimated to will help u learn new shit, grow new skills, and develop broader legal experience, etc?

Anonymous User wrote: work w/ people at V10 firms (making connections) and do interesting work. I'd have interesting things to talk about during 2L interviews


3) these connections are not good, but largely irrelevant to how many interviews/offers u get at 2L OCI, see below.

4) the only "interesting things" u will talk about during interviews have nothing to do with law. u must understand 99% of getting an interview is grades. and after u meet that threshold, 99% of getting a callback and offer is about personality/personal interests that connect with ur interviewer. the other 1% is family connections, which u wont be making at either 1L summer job.

not trying to be rude or insulting, just telling u how it is straight up.

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dood
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Re: Negotiating higher salary for summer associateship.

Postby dood » Sun May 27, 2012 5:40 am

holdencaulfield wrote:Be honest, but don't ask for more money. Tell the low-paying gig you'd love to work there, but explain you need the higher-paying gig to take care of your family. If they are willing to pay more, perhaps they'll offer to do so.


if u must go ahead with ur plan, do this. but i would reconsider the firm even if the in-house position gave u more $. im not rich and value $ too, but i honestly learned so much from my non-paying 1L job that i wouldnt have traded that for even a market paying SA at a V10.

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Wholigan
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Re: Negotiating higher salary for summer associateship.

Postby Wholigan » Sun May 27, 2012 10:22 am

As others have said, I don't think the in-house job is going to help you as much as you think. All OCI firms care about is that you did some legal work over the summer. Have you thought about the fact that you'll be doing something you already know how to do? If your OCI interviewers don't do that kind of work, they aren't going to care that much. At the firm job, you'll probably do things you haven't experienced before, which gives you a wider breadth of things to talk about to a variety of interviewers. Plus they may extend a 2L SA offer to you that you can have to fall back on. I'm sure they aren't going to have you get coffee. I have never heard of a firm paying a summer $2k-$3k a week to fill out time sheets and get coffee. Who told you that's what you'd be doing?

vegeta
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Re: Negotiating higher salary for summer associateship.

Postby vegeta » Sun May 27, 2012 10:55 am

Unless it's a really big negative to work in another state, I would take the firm job.




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