Pregnant 2L Summer

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formerbiglawpartner
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Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby formerbiglawpartner » Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:50 pm

Full disclosure. I skimmed this thread, but I didn't see any reference to the original poster's age. Apologies if it is buried in there somewhere. Of course, when to have a child is a highly personal decision, but here are my two cents. If you aren't 35 with your biological clock tick, tick, ticking, what's the rush? If you are interested in Big Law, I honestly don't think being pregnant during 2L clerkships is a good idea. Admittedly, I am from the old "make partner first and then have kids" school. I realize that is not possible for many given the longer partnership track at so many firms, particularly if you are a bit older starting law school. (I skipped a couple of grades so had an age advantage in that regard.) If you are NOT doing Big Law, then being pregnant your 3L year and just deferring your start date is a good option. I agree with the poster above who said that the bar exam is a piece of cake. While not a fun experience, it is imminently doable with an infant. As a final note, while I know some women do it successfully, I honestly can't imagine having one or more young children at home during the partnership push at a Big Law firm. In any event, best wishes for whatever you decide.

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rayiner
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Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby rayiner » Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:57 pm

formerbiglawpartner wrote:Full disclosure. I skimmed this thread, but I didn't see any reference to the original poster's age. Apologies if it is buried in there somewhere. Of course, when to have a child is a highly personal decision, but here are my two cents. If you aren't 35 with your biological clock tick, tick, ticking, what's the rush? If you are interested in Big Law, I honestly don't think being pregnant during 2L clerkships is a good idea. Admittedly, I am from the old "make partner first and then have kids" school. I realize that is not possible for many given the longer partnership track at so many firms, particularly if you are a bit older starting law school. (I skipped a couple of grades so had an age advantage in that regard.) If you are NOT doing Big Law, then being pregnant your 3L year and just deferring your start date is a good option. I agree with the poster above who said that the bar exam is a piece of cake. While not a fun experience, it is imminently doable with an infant. As a final note, while I know some women do it successfully, I honestly can't imagine having one or more young children at home during the partnership push at a Big Law firm. In any event, best wishes for whatever you decide.


Even old-line lock-step firms have 8-year partnership tracks these days, and a lot of non-lockstep shops are 10+ years. My classmates at NU are ~28-29 at graduation, the average nationwide is like 27. That's late 30's by the time you're trying for the first one.

formerbiglawpartner
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Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby formerbiglawpartner » Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:12 pm

I appreciate your comments. I graduated from law school at 23, had an 8 year track, and definitely count myself as fortunate. Most top firms now are 10 years realistically. I knew women who had one or two children when they were younger associates so at least the last couple of years before they were first up for partner, they had child care issues reasonably under control during the worst of the partnership push. Of course, there were also a lot of women who simply had no children either by choice or because they simply waited too long. It's certainly never an easy decision.

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Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:38 am

formerbiglawpartner wrote:If you aren't 35 with your biological clock tick, tick, ticking, what's the rush?


I am over 40 and in law school now. I put off having kids in part because I didn't get married until I was in my 30s. Well, guess what? It isn't always easy to get pregnant. After several miscarriages and years of trying, I hit 40 and was childless. There are no guarantees in life. And law school seems as good a time as any to have kids. At the firm I am at now, one woman said she thinks she had it easier coming in with kids because she had to make it work from the get go, as compared to women who had kids as an associate. Lots of women have kids and accomplish all sorts of things. You make it work for you. Keeping my fingers crossed that the little one I am currently expecting arrives healthy - but being pregnant during my 2L SA is not a bad thing and the school is being very supportive to accommodate the fact that I will have to miss a few weeks of classes in the fall.

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Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 12, 2012 12:13 am

Usually I would promote being pregnant 2L summer, but after going through this myself and having my firm seemingly be supportive, only to not give me an offer, I highly do not recommend.

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5ky
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Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby 5ky » Sun Aug 12, 2012 12:23 am

Anonymous User wrote:Usually I would promote being pregnant 2L summer, but after going through this myself and having my firm seemingly be supportive, only to not give me an offer, I highly do not recommend.


Wow. Condolences.

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IAFG
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Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby IAFG » Sun Aug 12, 2012 12:31 am

Anonymous User wrote:Usually I would promote being pregnant 2L summer, but after going through this myself and having my firm seemingly be supportive, only to not give me an offer, I highly do not recommend.

I am a little surprised they had the gall to no offer you.

While I certainly don't mean to kick you while you're down, I wouldn't assume firms are routinely no offering for pregnancy, and I personally know people who were pregnant at OCI and during their summer who don't appear to have had their employment prospects impacted in any way. (Since I was also a pregnant 2L summer, I was paying special attention to outcomes.)

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Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:13 am

f7 wrote:
IAFG wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Usually I would promote being pregnant 2L summer, but after going through this myself and having my firm seemingly be supportive, only to not give me an offer, I highly do not recommend.

I am a little surprised they had the gall to no offer you.

While I certainly don't mean to kick you while you're down, I wouldn't assume firms are routinely no offering for pregnancy, and I personally know people who were pregnant at OCI and during their summer who don't appear to have had their employment prospects impacted in any way. (Since I was also a pregnant 2L summer, I was paying special attention to outcomes.)

They're not.


Of course they are not. They are making petty excuses when it's clear to everyone, including associates who work there, what is actually going on.

"Not a long term good fit", indicates to me, some issues with me being pregnant/starting the firm as a mom.

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rayiner
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Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby rayiner » Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:15 am

Out the firm.

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Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:27 am

[/quote]
I don't see how this proves that your no offer had anything to do with your pregnancy.[/quote]

Okay........... are you a firm managing partner? What do you have to gain by attacking my experience? There were things said, and actions taken that i'm choosing not to share so I don't out myself.

How many pregnant summers are there? very few. And i'm not going to go into details so that you can try to disprove a blatant discrimination at my cost.

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Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:32 am

f7 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Okay........... are you a firm managing partner? What do you have to gain by attacking my experience? There were things said, and actions taken that i'm choosing not to share so I don't out myself.

How many pregnant summers are there? very few. And i'm not going to go into details so that you can try to disprove a blatant discrimination at my cost.

You can't just say that you were no offered for being pregnant and expect people not to want some sort of explanation or, as ray said, an outing of the firm. Without more information your comment really isn't useful. You're construing natural skepticism/curiosity as some sort of attack.


You didn't ask for explanation or question you just said "they're not" as if you were working where I was working, are on the recruiting committee, or know this for a fact. Being an ass is not the same as being curious. Especially with a topic as sensitive and fragile as this.

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IAFG
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Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby IAFG » Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:34 am

As it stands, in the 6 pages of this thread, you're the first to mention it actually happening. Based on this tiny collection of anecdotes, I wouldn't expect many people would (or should) delay starting a family due to no offer fear.

It would be interesting to know how many pregnant summers do get no-offered. It'd be helpful if ATL covered the topic, but it appears they never have, presumably because they've never gotten a tip that someone was no offered due to pregnancy.

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chup
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Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby chup » Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:36 am

IAFG wrote:It'd be helpful if ATL covered the topic, but it appears they never have, presumably because they've never gotten a tip that someone was no offered due to pregnancy.

Also because that would take some investigative work or research, and ATL is a mostly-worthless gossip site.

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rayiner
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Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby rayiner » Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:38 am

chup wrote:
IAFG wrote:It'd be helpful if ATL covered the topic, but it appears they never have, presumably because they've never gotten a tip that someone was no offered due to pregnancy.

Also because that would take some investigative work or research, and ATL is a mostly-worthless gossip site.


Not really. If the poster who got no-offered outed the firm, ATL would post the story without verification.

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Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:38 am

IAFG wrote:As it stands, in the 6 pages of this thread, you're the first to mention it actually happening. Based on this tiny collection of anecdotes, I wouldn't expect many people would (or should) delay starting a family due to no offer fear.

It would be interesting to know how many pregnant summers do get no-offered. It'd be helpful if ATL covered the topic, but it appears they never have, presumably because they've never gotten a tip that someone was no offered due to pregnancy.


Yeah I don't think it happens very often but I know of one other girl (who is in the process of filing a suit so perhaps it will make it to ATL) who feels like she faced discrimination.

I don't think its enough reason to not start a family but I do think its silly to brush off OPs concerns as nonsensical.

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IAFG
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Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby IAFG » Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:43 am

Fair enough. If someone had a summer offer at my firm, it would be absolutely nonsensical for her to delay family planning out of no-offer fear, as long as she didn't plan on doing something bone-headed like schedule OB appointments during business hours or take sick days for pregnancy malaise. Firms are hardly uniform in their treatment of summers, though. It would help if people would actually out the firms that aren't supportive.

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Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 14, 2012 5:09 am

Anonymous User wrote:Usually I would promote being pregnant 2L summer, but after going through this myself and having my firm seemingly be supportive, only to not give me an offer, I highly do not recommend.


Oh man, I am sorry to hear that. That really bites. Was it at least a cold offer? Did they extend anything that sounded remotely legitimate as a reason?

I got super lucky. I started my SA 6.5 months pregnant, had a complication that required me missing a half day of work each week, and my firm was very supportive of me and extended an offer. If any rising 2Ls want to know the firm PM me but I don't want to out myself. I did make sure to not miss any deadlines and did my best to go above and beyond, but I assume all SAs are doing that, pregnant or not and I assume you did as well.

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Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 14, 2012 5:14 am

IAFG wrote:Fair enough. If someone had a summer offer at my firm, it would be absolutely nonsensical for her to delay family planning out of no-offer fear, as long as she didn't plan on doing something bone-headed like schedule OB appointments during business hours or take sick days for pregnancy malaise. Firms are hardly uniform in their treatment of summers, though. It would help if people would actually out the firms that aren't supportive.


How exactly would you schedule an OB appointment that didn't interfere with office hours? Where I live there is no choice but to schedule between 9-5. I usually scheduled as early or as late in the day as possible, but no OBs here that I know of have evening or weekend hours. I did get an offer and as I mentioned in an earlier post, a complication required me to miss a half day every week during office hours to treat, and I still was offered, so I was lucky in that regard.

What city are you in that you can schedule appointments off hours? New York? Smaller markets are less likely to have that option I think.

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Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:43 am

I would think the best solution would be to try to aim for a due date in November of 3L. That way, you'll be pregnant but not necessarily visibly so (or at least you can disguise it) during the summer, and you'll have plenty of time with the baby before serious bar studying starts (and your husband can take care of the baby from June until after the bar that summer--tell him to suck it up).

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rayiner
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Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby rayiner » Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
IAFG wrote:Fair enough. If someone had a summer offer at my firm, it would be absolutely nonsensical for her to delay family planning out of no-offer fear, as long as she didn't plan on doing something bone-headed like schedule OB appointments during business hours or take sick days for pregnancy malaise. Firms are hardly uniform in their treatment of summers, though. It would help if people would actually out the firms that aren't supportive.


How exactly would you schedule an OB appointment that didn't interfere with office hours? Where I live there is no choice but to schedule between 9-5. I usually scheduled as early or as late in the day as possible, but no OBs here that I know of have evening or weekend hours. I did get an offer and as I mentioned in an earlier post, a complication required me to miss a half day every week during office hours to treat, and I still was offered, so I was lucky in that regard.

What city are you in that you can schedule appointments off hours? New York? Smaller markets are less likely to have that option I think.


We just skipped 10 weeks of OB appointments. The nurses were like "you can't do that!" but our Asian woman doctor totally understood.

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Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:40 pm

formerbiglawpartner wrote:Full disclosure. I skimmed this thread, but I didn't see any reference to the original poster's age. Apologies if it is buried in there somewhere. Of course, when to have a child is a highly personal decision, but here are my two cents. If you aren't 35 with your biological clock tick, tick, ticking, what's the rush? If you are interested in Big Law, I honestly don't think being pregnant during 2L clerkships is a good idea. Admittedly, I am from the old "make partner first and then have kids" school. I realize that is not possible for many given the longer partnership track at so many firms, particularly if you are a bit older starting law school. (I skipped a couple of grades so had an age advantage in that regard.) If you are NOT doing Big Law, then being pregnant your 3L year and just deferring your start date is a good option. I agree with the poster above who said that the bar exam is a piece of cake. While not a fun experience, it is imminently doable with an infant. As a final note, while I know some women do it successfully, I honestly can't imagine having one or more young children at home during the partnership push at a Big Law firm. In any event, best wishes for whatever you decide.


OP here. I'm 26 right now, so I get that it seems like I have plenty of time. My husband and I want a big family though, so waiting to start until 35 (or 37 if I were waiting on a 10 year partner track) that would seriously limit our choices.

formerbiglawpartner
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Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby formerbiglawpartner » Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:48 pm

Honestly, if you want a big family (3 or more kids?), biglaw is not for you in the long term. You can certainly work for awhile to help pay down any student debt you have. Guys do that, too, of course. If you are in it for the long haul, however, I never knew a single woman partner or associate who stayed very long at all after the third kid. It is simply too hard and there are only so many hours in a day. Good luck, however, whatever you decide.

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Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:56 pm

I'm a little partial because my mom was pregnant with me during her 2L SA....went into labor toward the end of the program and didn't come back but did get an offer. She actually went on to have two more kids in the next five years and became a partner. It was the good ole days.

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IAFG
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Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby IAFG » Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:02 am

formerbiglawpartner wrote:Honestly, if you want a big family (3 or more kids?), biglaw is not for you in the long term. You can certainly work for awhile to help pay down any student debt you have. Guys do that, too, of course. If you are in it for the long haul, however, I never knew a single woman partner or associate who stayed very long at all after the third kid. It is simply too hard and there are only so many hours in a day. Good luck, however, whatever you decide.

I interviewed with a midlaw partner who had 5 kids and a SAHD. It seemed to be working great for her.

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istara
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Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby istara » Sat Aug 18, 2012 2:31 pm

Planning to be pregnant during 2L SA as well (assuming I get one.. going through callbacks now). Hoping to give birth between September and November, and then plan a second child sometime after we can afford a bigger house.

Glad I'm not alone.




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