Pregnant 2L Summer

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Anonymous User
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Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby Anonymous User » Tue May 29, 2012 7:36 pm

Well that is exactly my point. Some people adjust very well to having their first child, and for others it is a huge adjustment. You won't know until it happens. And God forbid you have a baby who has health issues or is born premature and needs a lengthy NICU stay.

There is no perfect time to have a baby - but I think there is a much better time than while you are a law student because sometimes things happen that you just cannot plan for.

Renzo
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Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby Renzo » Tue May 29, 2012 8:36 pm

dresden doll wrote:Btw, having to go to your biglawl job sleep deprived from your infant strikes me as being about a million times worse than having to get up for class. At least you can skip class. 2L/3L baby is almost certainly a smoother ride than the first-year-associate baby. You people vastly exaggerate the amount of effort lawl school requires past the 1L year (assuming success at OCI).


Yep.

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IAFG
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Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby IAFG » Tue May 29, 2012 8:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Well that is exactly my point. Some people adjust very well to having their first child, and for others it is a huge adjustment. You won't know until it happens. And God forbid you have a baby who has health issues or is born premature and needs a lengthy NICU stay.

There is no perfect time to have a baby - but I think there is a much better time than while you are a law student because sometimes things happen that you just cannot plan for.

Try taking a year off due to pregnancy complications/newborn with health problems from biglaw. Now try taking a year off in the middle of your law school career.

The best time to have a child is as never-gonna-be-a-lawyer. If that's not going to work for you, law school is the next best time. I really question the familiarity the naysayers have with 2L and 3L. Multiple girls at NU have babies during law school every year with tremendous support and encouragement from the administration, who all say this is the best time.

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Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby Anonymous User » Tue May 29, 2012 8:59 pm

Renzo wrote:
dresden doll wrote:Btw, having to go to your biglawl job sleep deprived from your infant strikes me as being about a million times worse than having to get up for class. At least you can skip class. 2L/3L baby is almost certainly a smoother ride than the first-year-associate baby. You people vastly exaggerate the amount of effort lawl school requires past the 1L year (assuming success at OCI).


Yep.


And sleep deprivation with an infant is nothing compared to what it is like to have an active toddler at home. I think some people vastly underestimate the amount of effort it takes to care for a child. Nothing about it is a smooth ride. Ever. It is a lot of fun to raise a kid, and very rewarding - but the amount of work involved just to give them basic care is more than a FT job by itself.

And you think your student loan payments are gonna suck? Full time daycare = $1000+ per month (big cities run closer to $1400). Add that to diapers (~$75/month), formula (~$120/month, unless they have allergies and it can double), dr visits, clothes, toys..... Considering the fact that most people WON'T get biglaw when they graduate (especially if they have a kid and can't work long hours....) - well that just seems risky.

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Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby IAFG » Tue May 29, 2012 9:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Renzo wrote:
dresden doll wrote:Btw, having to go to your biglawl job sleep deprived from your infant strikes me as being about a million times worse than having to get up for class. At least you can skip class. 2L/3L baby is almost certainly a smoother ride than the first-year-associate baby. You people vastly exaggerate the amount of effort lawl school requires past the 1L year (assuming success at OCI).


Yep.


And sleep deprivation with an infant is nothing compared to what it is like to have an active toddler at home. I think some people vastly underestimate the amount of effort it takes to care for a child. Nothing about it is a smooth ride. Ever. It is a lot of fun to raise a kid, and very rewarding - but the amount of work involved just to give them basic care is more than a FT job by itself.

And you think your student loan payments are gonna suck? Full time daycare = $1000+ per month (big cities run closer to $1400). Add that to diapers (~$75/month), formula (~$120/month, unless they have allergies and it can double), dr visits, clothes, toys..... Considering the fact that most people WON'T get biglaw when they graduate (especially if they have a kid and can't work long hours....) - well that just seems risky.

Most people in my class did get biglaw, so I guess it's a question of your circumstances. The fact that kids are expensive isn't a terribly persuasive argument in a discussion of when, and not if, someone is going to have kids.

Now don't you think that's quite enough of hiding behind anon to post opinions devoid of personally revealing information?

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rayiner
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Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby rayiner » Tue May 29, 2012 9:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Renzo wrote:
dresden doll wrote:Btw, having to go to your biglawl job sleep deprived from your infant strikes me as being about a million times worse than having to get up for class. At least you can skip class. 2L/3L baby is almost certainly a smoother ride than the first-year-associate baby. You people vastly exaggerate the amount of effort lawl school requires past the 1L year (assuming success at OCI).


Yep.


And sleep deprivation with an infant is nothing compared to what it is like to have an active toddler at home. I think some people vastly underestimate the amount of effort it takes to care for a child. Nothing about it is a smooth ride. Ever. It is a lot of fun to raise a kid, and very rewarding - but the amount of work involved just to give them basic care is more than a FT job by itself.

And you think your student loan payments are gonna suck? Full time daycare = $1000+ per month (big cities run closer to $1400). Add that to diapers (~$75/month), formula (~$120/month, unless they have allergies and it can double), dr visits, clothes, toys..... Considering the fact that most people WON'T get biglaw when they graduate (especially if they have a kid and can't work long hours....) - well that just seems risky.


Again, nobody is arguing that having a child and working as a lawyer isn't tough. OP's question, however, was about being pregnant 2L summer. All of the things you mentioned argue for either forgoing a legal career or forgoing children. They do not speak to whether it's better to have a child in school versus after school. The level of support you'll get from a law school during 2L and 3L is a completely different thing than the non-support you'll get from a law firm.

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rayiner
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Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby rayiner » Tue May 29, 2012 9:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Well that is exactly my point. Some people adjust very well to having their first child, and for others it is a huge adjustment. You won't know until it happens. And God forbid you have a baby who has health issues or is born premature and needs a lengthy NICU stay.

There is no perfect time to have a baby - but I think there is a much better time than while you are a law student because sometimes things happen that you just cannot plan for.


Like?

Maybe in a gap before law school. Other the that, your life is never going to be easier than it is during 2L and 3L at a school where getting big law is routine.

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Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby Anonymous User » Tue May 29, 2012 9:26 pm

rayiner wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Well that is exactly my point. Some people adjust very well to having their first child, and for others it is a huge adjustment. You won't know until it happens. And God forbid you have a baby who has health issues or is born premature and needs a lengthy NICU stay.

There is no perfect time to have a baby - but I think there is a much better time than while you are a law student because sometimes things happen that you just cannot plan for.


Like?

Maybe in a gap before law school. Other the that, your life is never going to be easier than it is during 2L and 3L at a school where getting big law is routine.


As someone who has had kids, finished law school and secured a permanent position at a family-friendly firm I would say there is no perfect time to have kids, but ideally it will be planned for a time when you are planning to take a big chunk of time off to focus on the baby, not at a time when you are going to try to squeeze in giving birth and caring for an infant around all of your other responsibilities. If I could go back and re-plan everything from the beginning I would have gone through law school, worked for a few years at a family friendly firm, (hard to find, but hey are out there), build up some PTO and work my way into a position where I can choose flex-time when I come back.

A FT work-week with kids can be grueling. I wouldn't want to have a young toddler at home during my first year as a biglaw associate. But for me the kids are priority #1 and job is #2. I guess if you are going to have a nanny raise your kids anyways then it doesn't really matter when you pop them out.

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Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby rayiner » Tue May 29, 2012 9:33 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
rayiner wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Well that is exactly my point. Some people adjust very well to having their first child, and for others it is a huge adjustment. You won't know until it happens. And God forbid you have a baby who has health issues or is born premature and needs a lengthy NICU stay.

There is no perfect time to have a baby - but I think there is a much better time than while you are a law student because sometimes things happen that you just cannot plan for.


Like?

Maybe in a gap before law school. Other the that, your life is never going to be easier than it is during 2L and 3L at a school where getting big law is routine.


If I could go back and re-plan everything from the beginning I would have gone through law school, worked for a few years at a family friendly firm, (hard to find, but hey are out there), build up some PTO and work my way into a position where I can choose flex-time when I come back.


If you have a kid during 3L, and you plan your classes appropriately, your only responsibilities for a whole year are going to be raising the kid and writing a few papers. Way easier than juggling child care and work, even on "flex time."
Last edited by rayiner on Tue May 29, 2012 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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dresden doll
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Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby dresden doll » Tue May 29, 2012 9:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:As someone who has had kids, finished law school and secured a permanent position at a family-friendly firm I would say there is no perfect time to have kids, but ideally it will be planned for a time when you are planning to take a big chunk of time off to focus on the baby, not at a time when you are going to try to squeeze in giving birth and caring for an infant around all of your other responsibilities. If I could go back and re-plan everything from the beginning I would have gone through law school, worked for a few years at a family friendly firm, (hard to find, but hey are out there), build up some PTO and work my way into a position where I can choose flex-time when I come back.


Well, no kidding that would be the best case scenario. For many, however, that means waiting until they're in their mid-30s, and some of them would prefer not to risk decreased infertility that comes with waiting nearly a decade to have your first kid.

If I'd had my choices, I'd have had a baby after I became a millionaire, but life doesn't work out that neatly for many of us.

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Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby IAFG » Tue May 29, 2012 9:36 pm

dresden doll wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:As someone who has had kids, finished law school and secured a permanent position at a family-friendly firm I would say there is no perfect time to have kids, but ideally it will be planned for a time when you are planning to take a big chunk of time off to focus on the baby, not at a time when you are going to try to squeeze in giving birth and caring for an infant around all of your other responsibilities. If I could go back and re-plan everything from the beginning I would have gone through law school, worked for a few years at a family friendly firm, (hard to find, but hey are out there), build up some PTO and work my way into a position where I can choose flex-time when I come back.


Well, no kidding that would be the best case scenario. For many, however, that means waiting until they're in their mid-30s, and some of them would prefer not to risk decreased infertility that comes with waiting nearly a decade to have your first kid.

If I'd had my choices, I'd have had a baby after I became a millionaire, but life doesn't work out that neatly for many of us.

Hell, I'm at a VERY family-friendly firm, and flex-time jobs are hardly growing on trees, mid-30s or otherwise.

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Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby dresden doll » Tue May 29, 2012 9:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
And you think your student loan payments are gonna suck? Full time daycare = $1000+ per month (big cities run closer to $1400). Add that to diapers (~$75/month), formula (~$120/month, unless they have allergies and it can double), dr visits, clothes, toys..... Considering the fact that most people WON'T get biglaw when they graduate (especially if they have a kid and can't work long hours....) - well that just seems risky.


I don't understand why you're talking about people not going into Biglaw when OP clearly doesn't fall into that category. Between a biglaw lawyer and a gainfully employed spouse, which appears to be the situation OP's looking at, a kid is financially manageable. My boyfriend and I manage ours, and we're both graduating 3L living on student loans in the middle of NYC.

Also, I don't even understand what you're getting at with the 'if they have a kid, they won't be able to work long hours' argument. If that were the case, every single biglaw lawyer out there would be childless.

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Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby cch24 » Tue May 29, 2012 9:40 pm

This thread makes me happy I'll be graduating law school at 25.

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Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby dresden doll » Tue May 29, 2012 9:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
And sleep deprivation with an infant is nothing compared to what it is like to have an active toddler at home. I think some people vastly underestimate the amount of effort it takes to care for a child. Nothing about it is a smooth ride. Ever.


Considering that I dealt with a colicky baby while 1) the father was across the country finishing his own exams and 2) I was busy finishing a major paper writing requirement I needed to get in by an inflexible deadline in order to be eligible to spend a year away, I think I'm pretty well aware that kids aren't a 'smooth ride.'

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Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby Renzo » Wed May 30, 2012 12:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Renzo wrote:
dresden doll wrote:Btw, having to go to your biglawl job sleep deprived from your infant strikes me as being about a million times worse than having to get up for class. At least you can skip class. 2L/3L baby is almost certainly a smoother ride than the first-year-associate baby. You people vastly exaggerate the amount of effort lawl school requires past the 1L year (assuming success at OCI).


Yep.


And sleep deprivation with an infant is nothing compared to what it is like to have an active toddler at home. I think some people vastly underestimate the amount of effort it takes to care for a child. Nothing about it is a smooth ride. Ever. It is a lot of fun to raise a kid, and very rewarding - but the amount of work involved just to give them basic care is more than a FT job by itself.

And you think your student loan payments are gonna suck? Full time daycare = $1000+ per month (big cities run closer to $1400). Add that to diapers (~$75/month), formula (~$120/month, unless they have allergies and it can double), dr visits, clothes, toys..... Considering the fact that most people WON'T get biglaw when they graduate (especially if they have a kid and can't work long hours....) - well that just seems risky.


Now you just sound like you don't like the idea of having kids. Yes, it's expensive as fuck, particularly here in NYC. But that's a constant: kids are expensive whether you work in biglaw or are unemployed. So what does that have to do with the timing of having a kid?

And, as an aside, the toddler years are basically as easy as it gets between birth and the age when they can be left to fend for themselves for big blocks of time.

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Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby Anonymous User » Wed May 30, 2012 12:51 pm

OP here. I really appreciate all the different perspectives.

I understand kids are expensive. Money isn't a huge concern for me. Well, it is but it isn't. I've got a decent scholarship, so we won't have huge amounts of debt after graduation, and my mother is a stay at home wife and is eagerly awaiting childcare duties.

And to the pp who said that before law school is the best time to have kids.... well, hindsight is 20/20. If I could go back and rearrange my life I would do a lot of things differently, but alas here I am.

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Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby Anonymous User » Wed May 30, 2012 1:53 pm

While we are on the topic of pregnancy during law school I could use a little feedback on a situation I'm in. I am starting 1L this fall and I am having a planned c-section over the Labor day weekend (so, for me, a little less than a month into school). I'd like to add that I have a great support team that will be staying at my house and helping out for at least the first month, plus my husband runs his own business and makes his own schedule. I am not as concerned about recovery time since I was taking undergrad classes like normal 4 days after my emergency c-section with our first. At most I was only planning on missing 3 days of school. I understand things can easily mess up this plan, but, if all goes according to plan should I tell my school I am pregnant prior to starting? Or should I start like normal, belly and all, not making a deal out of it and let my professors know, as we get closer, that I am having the c-section and intend on only missing one class of theirs, if that? I prefer the second option but would like to know an outsiders opinion.

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Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby acrossthelake » Thu May 31, 2012 1:27 am

From my perspective, kids are best either if you've already left biglaw to go to a less time-consuming legal position, or during law school. Depending on the age at which you enter law school, the wait till after biglaw(assuming you plan to ever leave) might be a bit too long. It makes sense that NU would encourage it--if a lot of students are in their mid-to-late 20s, then waiting till after settling into a post-big-law job could mean waiting until their mid 30s.

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Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby worldtraveler » Thu May 31, 2012 6:52 am

Anonymous User wrote:While we are on the topic of pregnancy during law school I could use a little feedback on a situation I'm in. I am starting 1L this fall and I am having a planned c-section over the Labor day weekend (so, for me, a little less than a month into school). I'd like to add that I have a great support team that will be staying at my house and helping out for at least the first month, plus my husband runs his own business and makes his own schedule. I am not as concerned about recovery time since I was taking undergrad classes like normal 4 days after my emergency c-section with our first. At most I was only planning on missing 3 days of school. I understand things can easily mess up this plan, but, if all goes according to plan should I tell my school I am pregnant prior to starting? Or should I start like normal, belly and all, not making a deal out of it and let my professors know, as we get closer, that I am having the c-section and intend on only missing one class of theirs, if that? I prefer the second option but would like to know an outsiders opinion.


You should tell them as soon as you start in case you need any accommodations. If you have complications and need more time off, they would probably appreciate having had a heads-up.

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Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby Anonymous User » Thu May 31, 2012 10:25 am

worldtraveler wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:While we are on the topic of pregnancy during law school I could use a little feedback on a situation I'm in. I am starting 1L this fall and I am having a planned c-section over the Labor day weekend (so, for me, a little less than a month into school). I'd like to add that I have a great support team that will be staying at my house and helping out for at least the first month, plus my husband runs his own business and makes his own schedule. I am not as concerned about recovery time since I was taking undergrad classes like normal 4 days after my emergency c-section with our first. At most I was only planning on missing 3 days of school. I understand things can easily mess up this plan, but, if all goes according to plan should I tell my school I am pregnant prior to starting? Or should I start like normal, belly and all, not making a deal out of it and let my professors know, as we get closer, that I am having the c-section and intend on only missing one class of theirs, if that? I prefer the second option but would like to know an outsiders opinion.


You should tell them as soon as you start in case you need any accommodations. If you have complications and need more time off, they would probably appreciate having had a heads-up.


I think that's the best idea as well.

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Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby sunynp » Thu May 31, 2012 10:49 am

Why do some people have attitudes about nannies? I don't understand this at all. I think this comes from people who didn't grow up with a nanny in the house. All of my friends had nannies when I was growing up. I realize that is possibly because I live in NYC and that nannies may be less common in other places. Even stay at home moms had nannies to help with their kids.

No one felt the parents were abandoning their kids. The parents very much remain in control of the children's lives- but it is physically impossible to be in two places at the same time. Having someone help get the kids organized and to help with travel to and from daily activities doesn't mean the nanny is raising the kids. Often the parents can be less stressed and more focused on the child if they have support.

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rayiner
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Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby rayiner » Thu May 31, 2012 11:05 am

sunynp wrote:Why do some people have attitudes about nannies? I don't understand this at all. I think this comes from people who didn't grow up with a nanny in the house. All of my friends had nannies when I was growing up. I realize that is possibly because I live in NYC and that nannies may be less common in other places. Even stay at home moms had nannies to help with their kids.

No one felt the parents were abandoning their kids. The parents very much remain in control of the children's lives- but it is physically impossible to be in two places at the same time. Having someone help get the kids organized and to help with travel to and from daily activities doesn't mean the nanny is raising the kids. Often the parents can be less stressed and more focused on the child if they have support.


A lot of people on here were spawned in the suburbs and hold onto some uniquely suburban ideas about child rearing. Suburban culture is built on isolation. The 3-5 person nuclear family lives isolated from other people on a 0.5-2 acre plot of land serving as a buffer against having to interact with people. Any interactions are carefully controlled and scripted (e.g. dinner parties). To people raised in this environment, the idea of a "stranger" coming into your house to take care of your children is scary.

I spent the first five years of my life in Dhaka, Bangladesh, even even though we lived in a compound with walls to keep people out it didn't prepare me for the utter isolation that characterizes American suburban culture. Because we lived in the city, people were over all the time. My mom didn't work, but I spent most of my time interacting with my nanny (a teenage boy!) or my aunts.

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Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby EmMeC » Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:28 pm

For what it's worth, my husband and I welcomed our first child (a girl) in January of my 2L year. I'm at a T25 school and am just outside the top 1/3 of my class, so I had no plans of pulling crazy hours studying to try to keep up top grades or anything. :) I was working BigLaw at the time I got pregnant (1L summer) and when I told my boss his response was, "well that was stupid. What did you do that for?" As if I had gotten knocked up by some stranger in a bar instead of my husband of 3 years! I quickly determined that firm was not a good fit. Shortly after having my daughter, I interviewed with a mid-sized firm, spent my 2L summer there and received an offer. They are family friendly and it's a great fit for me. Some things to consider: I ended up having a c-section, but was still able to return to school and my externship 10 days later. I here, however, that is not typical recovery time and my OB almost killed me when she found out. I scheduled my 2L spring semester to be very light (12 credits) so I could maximize time with the baby. It worked out great for us, but like I said, I don't really care about making high grades, so studying was low on my priority list even before I got pregnant. And, per my Big Law boss, not everyone reacts great to a pregnant law student. My school was super supportive, though, and that made all the difference. Three other girls at my school had babies within 6 weeks of my daughter's birth- we called it the baby boom of 2011. There is no PERFECT time to have kids, but when that first one arrives, you'll stop worrying about that- I promise!

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Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:53 pm

I mean this with no offense OP, but why are you in law school again if your number 1 priority seems to be having a kid? Better course of action would've been 1) have a family and go to school when they're a little older or 2) have kids after 4 or 5 years in to your career

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Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:58 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I mean this with no offense OP, but why are you in law school again if your number 1 priority seems to be having a kid? Better course of action would've been 1) have a family and go to school when they're a little older or 2) have kids after 4 or 5 years in to your career


(1) is definitely a better option, but I'm not convinced that (2) is any better and I can make a plausible argument for why it's worse. It really depends on how much child care support OP has, and OP seems like she has family willing to help out. In that circumstance, I can see having a kid during school being better career-wise than having to take maternity leave and deal with a newborn as a mid-level associate.




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