Pregnant 2L Summer

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
Anonymous User
Posts: 273139
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby Anonymous User » Thu May 24, 2012 9:44 am

My husband and I would like to start our family before I graduate and am working insane hours. I realize I'm putting the cart way before the horse because I don't know how long it'll take me to get pregnant, but how awful would it look to be in my third trimester as a summer associate? Obviously I'd plan on busting my ass over the summer to prove my worth, but I'm still nervous. I've heard horrible things about women being discriminated against for being pregnant.

User avatar
chem!
Posts: 9380
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:03 pm

Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby chem! » Thu May 24, 2012 9:51 am

I can't speak to being being a pregnant 2L, but my longtime BFF got pregnant right after graduation, and got hired at the firm where she did her summer internship as a 3L. She made it work, and she's a single mom - did IVF. I don't know if that helps, but I do know that whatever the case, it will be a challenge. I've got two kids, and I can assure you that newborns and infants are exhausting on their own, much less while dealing with law school.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273139
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby Anonymous User » Thu May 24, 2012 9:56 am

I think getting pregnant near the end of 2L summer is better timing. You would be pregnant throughout your 3L year which tends to be more lax and you have some time, after graduating but before working, to stay home with baby.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273139
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby Anonymous User » Thu May 24, 2012 10:04 am

OP Here. My only concern about waiting until the end of 2L summer is having to study for/take the bar with a newborn. Being due in late August/September of 3L would give me maximum time to spend with the baby before working. I'm front loading my credits for 2L anyway so I can take as few classes as possible 3L. The only thing I'm really nervous about is it affecting whether or not I get a permanent offer.

User avatar
Lawst
Posts: 504
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2011 11:02 am

Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby Lawst » Thu May 24, 2012 10:07 am

Er, I'm going to guess this is not the best idea. I have a 10+ years of work experience, though not in law, and I'm trying to imagine a visibly pregnant intern showing up in the summer. It would be really awkward. I am a woman, and I'm not trying to be discriminatory at all. I mean, if it happens by accident that's one thing, but planning it this way doesn't sound practical.
Why not wait until after the bar exam? Kids are a major distraction pretty much forever, and especially the first 10 years.

User avatar
chem!
Posts: 9380
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:03 pm

Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby chem! » Thu May 24, 2012 10:12 am

Lawst wrote:Er, I'm going to guess this is not the best idea. I have a 10+ years of work experience, though not in law, and I'm trying to imagine a visibly pregnant intern showing up in the summer. It would be really awkward. I am a woman, and I'm not trying to be discriminatory at all. I mean, if it happens by accident that's one thing, but planning it this way doesn't sound practical.
Why not wait until after the bar exam? Kids are a major distraction pretty much forever, and especially the first 10 years.


I agree with this. Kids are a LOT of work.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273139
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby Anonymous User » Thu May 24, 2012 10:14 am

Ugh. That's what I'm afraid of. I don't really want to wait until after the bar exam, because after that I'd be working. Wouldn't it be worse to start working and then immediately take maternity leave?

I tried to convince my husband that we should just start trying now, so I would have the baby before 2L summer, but he wasn't hearing it.

I know kids are a lot of work. We've talked about it and we're ready. We want three kids and I'm not getting any younger here :(

User avatar
chem!
Posts: 9380
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:03 pm

Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby chem! » Thu May 24, 2012 10:24 am

Anonymous User wrote:Ugh. That's what I'm afraid of. I don't really want to wait until after the bar exam, because after that I'd be working. Wouldn't it be worse to start working and then immediately take maternity leave?

I tried to convince my husband that we should just start trying now, so I would have the baby before 2L summer, but he wasn't hearing it.

I know kids are a lot of work. We've talked about it and we're ready. We want three kids and I'm not getting any younger here :(


I don't envy you this decision. FWIW, I was 31 with my first and 33 with my second. My friend was 41 with her first, and like I said, she's a single mom and an attorney who makes it work. You just need to go into eyes open, and understand that no matter how hard you think it's going to be, it will be exponentially more difficult once it becomes reality. Children do NOT care whether you are tired, busy, hungover or just not in a good mood. Everything else becomes secondary to them, especially when they are little. I taught every other day when my boys were little, and it was still a beating.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273139
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby Anonymous User » Thu May 24, 2012 10:27 am

^ exactly. things do not always happen as you have wished or planned, but that doesnt mean they are not going to work out fine.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273139
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby Anonymous User » Thu May 24, 2012 10:28 am

Anonymous User wrote:OP Here. My only concern about waiting until the end of 2L summer is having to study for/take the bar with a newborn. Being due in late August/September of 3L would give me maximum time to spend with the baby before working. I'm front loading my credits for 2L anyway so I can take as few classes as possible 3L. The only thing I'm really nervous about is it affecting whether or not I get a permanent offer.


ITE there is a possibility that you might not even get an offer without being pregnant. The best thing to do is get pregnant after you have an offer in hand so that if you are no offered you will not have to go into 3L OCI, looking for a job while pregnant. If baby is born in May of your 3L year, it is possible to stay at home with baby and study for the bar. You can push your start date to January and have 6 months with baby. At best, employers usually give 2 months of maternity leave; Six months is enough.

If your 3L schedule is light, and you are worried about taking the bar with a newborn, give yourself more time to study for the bar, before baby is born. Start studying for the bar in January of your 3L year.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Thu May 24, 2012 10:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
chem!
Posts: 9380
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:03 pm

Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby chem! » Thu May 24, 2012 10:29 am

Anonymous User wrote:^ exactly. things do not always happen as you have wished or planned, but that doesnt mean they are not going to work out fine.


Yep. :)

Anonymous User
Posts: 273139
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby Anonymous User » Thu May 24, 2012 10:36 am

chem! wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Ugh. That's what I'm afraid of. I don't really want to wait until after the bar exam, because after that I'd be working. Wouldn't it be worse to start working and then immediately take maternity leave?

I tried to convince my husband that we should just start trying now, so I would have the baby before 2L summer, but he wasn't hearing it.

I know kids are a lot of work. We've talked about it and we're ready. We want three kids and I'm not getting any younger here :(


I don't envy you this decision. FWIW, I was 31 with my first and 33 with my second. My friend was 41 with her first, and like I said, she's a single mom and an attorney who makes it work. You just need to go into eyes open, and understand that no matter how hard you think it's going to be, it will be exponentially more difficult once it becomes reality. Children do NOT care whether you are tired, busy, hungover or just not in a good mood. Everything else becomes secondary to them, especially when they are little. I taught every other day when my boys were little, and it was still a beating.


Thanks :) We went back and forth a lot when deciding. We're lucky in that we're going to have a lot of support- both of our families are nearby and my mother doesn't work. I really just want to take advantage of any time I can possibly have to be a semi-stay at home mom before I start working. It really just sucks that for all the hoopla there is about diversity and empowering women in the workplace and work/life balance, being pregnant (or even the notion that you might have kids someday) is such a taboo.

User avatar
Samara
Posts: 3245
Joined: Wed May 11, 2011 4:26 pm

Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby Samara » Thu May 24, 2012 10:46 am

Anonymous User wrote:My husband and I would like to start our family before I graduate and am working insane hours. I realize I'm putting the cart way before the horse because I don't know how long it'll take me to get pregnant, but how awful would it look to be in my third trimester as a summer associate? Obviously I'd plan on busting my ass over the summer to prove my worth, but I'm still nervous. I've heard horrible things about women being discriminated against for being pregnant.

What if you are due in August, but you have a premature birth in the middle of your SA? That's what I would be worried about. Seems too risky.

(This thread is relevant to my interests.)

User avatar
franklyscarlet
Posts: 2914
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:16 pm

Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby franklyscarlet » Thu May 24, 2012 10:48 am

Samara wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:My husband and I would like to start our family before I graduate and am working insane hours. I realize I'm putting the cart way before the horse because I don't know how long it'll take me to get pregnant, but how awful would it look to be in my third trimester as a summer associate? Obviously I'd plan on busting my ass over the summer to prove my worth, but I'm still nervous. I've heard horrible things about women being discriminated against for being pregnant.

What if you are due in August, but you have a premature birth in the middle of your SA? That's what I would be worried about. Seems too risky.

(This thread is relevant to my interests.)


Wait- Samara, are you pregnant?


:-D

Anonymous User
Posts: 273139
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby Anonymous User » Thu May 24, 2012 10:56 am

There is no "good" time to have kids in this day and age, especially in law. You don't want to be pregnant during 1L, you don't want to be pregnant or have a child during 2L summer, you don't want to have a child while studying for the bar, you don't want to get pregnant during your first few years of practice, and by the time you're well-established as a senior associate you're well into your 30's and if you do have kids it will have to be on a very compressed time scale.

I don't think being pregnant during 2L summer is that bad, especially if you time it so your SA roughly coincides with your second trimester. When you start, you will not be very visibly pregnant, if at all. http://s72.photobucket.com/albums/i181/ ... eks001.jpg. At that point, a loose blouse and jacket will hide the belly pretty easily. Even by the end of your second trimester you will not be one of those big as a house waddling pregnant women: http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i181/ ... 4weeks.jpg. It will be obvious you are pregnant, but not so obvious that people are nervous around you, as can happen when you're at the "about to pop" stage.

Strictly rationally, 2L summer is one of the better times to get pregnant, even as far as the firm is concerned. The firm doesn't have to pay for your maternity leave, they don't have an associate dealing with morning sickness, postpartum issues, etc. For you, if you deliver in September-November, you'll have almost a full year with the baby before going back to work, avoiding all the embarrassment and stress of having a newborn while working. If people at the firm object, it will be only for irrational reasons. I don't think it's fair to assume that people will react irrationally. I spent last summer at an NYC V10, and even in that high-pressure environment I can't see someone getting no-offered on the basis of being pregnant. Hiring decisions are generally made by a hiring committee, which almost certainly has women on it. They evaluate the feedback in your file. Even if they know you are pregnant, it's hard for that knowledge to make a difference in their decision based on how the process is structured. A single partner might, even unconsciously, choose a male summer over a pregnant female summer after a face-to-face interview, but that's much more difficult to do when you're deliberating with a group of people based on peoples' files.

There is, of course, some non-zero probability of getting no-offered because of your pregnancy. There is also a small but higher probability of birth defects if you wait till your 30's to have kids. There is a small probability you might never be able to have kids if you wait. Ultimately, you have to decide which risks you'd rather take. In doing so, don't over-exaggerate how likely firms are to no-offer you based on your being pregnant. A lot of male partners at my firm had young children. One senior associate I worked with took his kids to day care every morning on his way to work, and another up and took a month of paternity leave right in the middle of the summer and nobody thought anything of it. The fact of the matter is that you're not much more likely to get no-offered being pregnant as an SA, and at the same time nobody remembers SA's. If you're gunning for partner or something, people are much more likely to remember you taking a six-week maternity leave as a senior associate.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Thu May 24, 2012 11:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
dresden doll
Posts: 6802
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:11 am

Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby dresden doll » Thu May 24, 2012 10:58 am

Lawst wrote:Er, I'm going to guess this is not the best idea. I have a 10+ years of work experience, though not in law, and I'm trying to imagine a visibly pregnant intern showing up in the summer. It would be really awkward. I am a woman, and I'm not trying to be discriminatory at all. I mean, if it happens by accident that's one thing, but planning it this way doesn't sound practical.
Why not wait until after the bar exam? Kids are a major distraction pretty much forever, and especially the first 10 years.


I find it weird that someone who's been out in the real world for 10+ years is weirded out by pregnant interns. Really? Do you imagine their water will break while they're on their way from Starbucks fetching you coffee? And if pregnant interns are oh so awkward to have around, what difference does it make whether or not their pregnancy was planned?

Btw, having to go to your biglawl job sleep deprived from your infant strikes me as being about a million times worse than having to get up for class. At least you can skip class. 2L/3L baby is almost certainly a smoother ride than the first-year-associate baby. You people vastly exaggerate the amount of effort lawl school requires past the 1L year (assuming success at OCI).

Anonymous User
Posts: 273139
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby Anonymous User » Thu May 24, 2012 11:07 am

Also, the bar exam is cake. I'm a man and I could totally take care of a newborn while studying. :lol:

User avatar
Lawst
Posts: 504
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2011 11:02 am

Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby Lawst » Thu May 24, 2012 11:16 am

dresden doll wrote:
Lawst wrote:Er, I'm going to guess this is not the best idea. I have a 10+ years of work experience, though not in law, and I'm trying to imagine a visibly pregnant intern showing up in the summer. It would be really awkward. I am a woman, and I'm not trying to be discriminatory at all. I mean, if it happens by accident that's one thing, but planning it this way doesn't sound practical.
Why not wait until after the bar exam? Kids are a major distraction pretty much forever, and especially the first 10 years.


I find it weird that someone who's been out in the real world for 10+ years is weirded out by pregnant interns. Really? Do you imagine their water will break while they're on their way from Starbucks fetching you coffee? And if pregnant interns are oh so awkward to have around, what difference does it make whether or not their pregnancy was planned?

Btw, having to go to your biglawl job sleep deprived from your infant strikes me as being about a million times worse than having to get up for class. At least you can skip class. 2L/3L baby is almost certainly a smoother ride than the first-year-associate baby. You people vastly exaggerate the amount of effort lawl school requires past the 1L year (assuming success at OCI).


Um, no - I've never sent anyone to get coffee for me, actually, and a lot of my friends have had babies recently, so I have no bias against pregnant women. I'm just being really honest. If you don't think it would be weird showing up for a new job visibly pregnant, then I guess that's great. People do treat women differently when they're pregnant, at least what I have learned anecdotally from friends who are moms.
There really are no easy solutions for this and maybe no ideal time. I decided not to have kids for a variety of other reasons, so I have to admit that it made the whole law school choice way easier for me. To the women who go this route, it's not easy, so more power to you.

ETA: I didn't mean to imply that it matters to anyone whether the pregnancy is planned or not, but rather that if you're going to pick a time to plan to get pregnant, this might not be the most practical.

ruski
Posts: 348
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2009 10:45 am

Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby ruski » Thu May 24, 2012 11:26 am

am i the only one who thinks this a genius idea? this almost guarantees you a full time offer - no way they are going to no-offer the pregnant chick, especially if you bust your ass. that is a law suit waiting to happen.

now you might get weird looks, and people might think you've got a lot of balls to do that, and many at your firm may not appreciate it, and it will be hella awkward for you both at work and summer events, but if you only care about getting a full time offer and nothing else then it's fine.

User avatar
Lawst
Posts: 504
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2011 11:02 am

Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby Lawst » Thu May 24, 2012 11:28 am

ruski wrote:am i the only one who thinks this a genius idea? this almost guarantees you a full time offer - no way they are going to no-offer the pregnant chick, especially if you bust your ass. that is a law suit waiting to happen.

now you might get weird looks, and people might think you've got a lot of balls to do that, and many at your firm may not appreciate it, and it will be hella awkward for you both at work and summer events, but if you only care about getting a full time offer and nothing else then it's fine.


Ooh, I like the way you think - this hadn't occurred to me. This could possibly work. :lol:

Anonymous User
Posts: 273139
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby Anonymous User » Thu May 24, 2012 11:31 am

ruski wrote:am i the only one who thinks this a genius idea? this almost guarantees you a full time offer - no way they are going to no-offer the pregnant chick, especially if you bust your ass. that is a law suit waiting to happen.

now you might get weird looks, and people might think you've got a lot of balls to do that, and many at your firm may not appreciate it, and it will be hella awkward for you both at work and summer events, but if you only care about getting a full time offer and nothing else then it's fine.


Honestly, I don't think it's that big of a deal. Why would it be awkward at work, especially if you're not "about to pop" pregnant?

Anonymous User
Posts: 273139
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby Anonymous User » Thu May 24, 2012 11:33 am

A girl was pregnant at my firm 2L summer. V 20something. She got an offer.

User avatar
Unitas
Posts: 1387
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:03 pm

Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby Unitas » Thu May 24, 2012 11:34 am

Most biglaw firms have great benefits for new mothers that apply even when new mothers don't come back after having the baby or only come back for a limited time.. Having a baby 2L summer will not allow you to get any of the benefits offered. Just something to consider.

Also, it's probably not best to decide exactly what trimester and time you want to be pregnant. You will put a lot of pressure on yourself, which is not conducive to getting pregnant. Just go off the birth control when you think you are ready and wait for it to happen. If you're pregnant at an inopportune time you just got to deal with it. (I see you basically already said that in OP)

I would think 3L year (very little stress) or first/second year associate (lots of benefits but somewhat unethical if you don't plan to go back to firm which doesn't appear to be your case) would be best time to be pregnant. See here for getting pregnant late in 3L:
http://abovethelaw.com/2011/07/outstand ... ght-after/

I don't think it'd be bad to be pregnant 2L summer but you really don't know how you'll take pregnancy and some women go crazy during it due to hormones and some women are perfectly fine. Seems 3L year would be best time since not much goes on or as a newer associate since you can likely work from home, get paid some amount, and likely have better insurance.

dudders
Posts: 467
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2010 4:56 pm

Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby dudders » Thu May 24, 2012 11:47 am

Since this is apparently hypothetical, and your 2L summer is at least a year away, you can always wait until after OCI to decide. Unless you're at HLS or a baller or something, your 2L SA is also a hypothetical.

If you don't end up with biglaw for the summer, I wouldn't think twice about it. Everywhere govt/PI that I've worked would 1) not care that you're pregnant, and 2) might even like you better. Most people at them are family-friendly and probably have kids of their own. Plus govt/PI/smaller firms aren't going to hire you for post-grd anyway. So there shouldn't be any anxiety about how it reflects on your future prospects there.

If you do get biglaw, weigh your options in September once you know what firm it is (and where it is, if being away from your husband is a possibility). You research the family-friendless of specific firms, both post-offer and when applying. If you want to do both, I say go for it. If you're really at risk of being no-offered (unlikely), is that the place you want to work while your kids are little and while you're expecting any future ones? I'm all for working moms, in biglaw or elsewhere, but if being pregnant is a dealbreaker for a firm I bet family emergencies, breastfeeding, and occassionally having to remove a sick kid from school or day care during the day aren't going to be tolerated either.

My concern wouldn't be what the firm thinks. If we're talking third trimester I'd be concerned primarily about fatigue and standing around bored and sober with cankles at all the after-work social events you're basically required to go to. If you're as ready as you'll ever be, go for it. Pay no attention to the naysayers; you won't be the first person with a kid who also studies for the bar.

User avatar
rayiner
Posts: 6184
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:43 am

Re: Pregnant 2L Summer

Postby rayiner » Thu May 24, 2012 11:55 am

Just to give people some frame of reference, because I don't think some people really know what pregnant women look like ITT.

This woman is at the beginning of her second trimester (12-13 weeks).
http://www.flickr.com/photos/50372820@N06/5551467341

Same woman a month later (16-17 weeks).
http://www.flickr.com/photos/50372820@N ... otostream/

Same woman a month later (20-21 weeks).
http://www.flickr.com/photos/50372820@N ... otostream/

Same woman a month later (24-25 weeks).
http://www.flickr.com/photos/50372820@N ... otostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/50372820@N ... otostream/

Same woman more than a month later (~31 weeks).
http://www.flickr.com/photos/50372820@N ... otostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/50372820@N ... otostream/

Same woman more than a month later (~37 weeks).
http://www.flickr.com/photos/50372820@N ... otostream/

YMMV, but even well into the third trimester (see the week 31 photos) you're not so huge that it is awkward for people. Remember, you're not going to go to the office looking like this:
Image

With a loose blouse and a jacket, during your second trimester people might not even realize you're pregnant unless you tell them.

Also, re: social events, nobody cares about them, at least no one did at my firm. People go and have fun, etc, but as long as you go to a few here and there, nobody will care if you blow off the rest.




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.