I want to wear a suit to work.

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goodolgil
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Re: I want to wear a suit to work.

Postby goodolgil » Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:41 am

Yvonnella wrote:
dresden doll wrote:
Yvonnella wrote:
The only people who will really frown at you for out-dressing them are the office children who don't want to be compelled to grow up and dress like professionals. People who wear suits merely inform others non-verbally that they take themselves seriously. What a horrible thought. And as a woman, I can tell you that a man in a tie catches my eye. He just does. If you like wearing suits, good for you! Suggestion: dress your best one day every week: you'll show the managing partner that you are perfectly comfortable looking like a professional if you need to, but going business casual the rest of the time, you'll show that you're not a snob who's simply out to upstage everyone else. And if anybody in the office has anything negative to say, just smile. They're the ones with the problem.


Yes, being snide towards coworkers who are themselves dressed in accordance with the workplace dress code because you think you have a better idea of what the workplace dress code should be is a surefire way to get ahead.


I've never taken a smile to be snide.


Yes, because managing partners tend to take note of when an SA wears a suit one day week but then dresses in business casual the other days of the week.

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Yvonnella
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Re: I want to wear a suit to work.

Postby Yvonnella » Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:16 am

goodolgil wrote:
Yvonnella wrote:
dresden doll wrote:
Yvonnella wrote:
The only people who will really frown at you for out-dressing them are the office children who don't want to be compelled to grow up and dress like professionals. People who wear suits merely inform others non-verbally that they take themselves seriously. What a horrible thought. And as a woman, I can tell you that a man in a tie catches my eye. He just does. If you like wearing suits, good for you! Suggestion: dress your best one day every week: you'll show the managing partner that you are perfectly comfortable looking like a professional if you need to, but going business casual the rest of the time, you'll show that you're not a snob who's simply out to upstage everyone else. And if anybody in the office has anything negative to say, just smile. They're the ones with the problem.


Yes, being snide towards coworkers who are themselves dressed in accordance with the workplace dress code because you think you have a better idea of what the workplace dress code should be is a surefire way to get ahead.


I've never taken a smile to be snide.


Yes, because managing partners tend to take note of when an SA wears a suit one day week but then dresses in business casual the other days of the week.


It's naive to think that managers in law firms do not take any note of how their people dress. There's a lot of coffee here that needs to be smelled. Prefer to dress at the minimum acceptable level? Do it. Better hope that you blow their minds with your incredible legal prowess on your way to discovering what reality holds in store, though. I made a suggestion encouraging people to dress nicely and professionally now and then. In other words, quietly step up your act. I didn't suggest that treating co-workers with condescension was appropriate. Smile, be courteous, polite, and professional, and dress nicely. It will do your career nothing but good. And yes, managing partners will notice. And they'll like it.

Alternatively, remind yourself and others daily that you're smarter than your boss. Dress like you're watching TV. Complain about not being able to wear shorts and flip flops, and most importantly, tell yourself that you're indispensable. After all, you're entitled to be yourself wherever you are because you cannot be replaced.

Your choice.

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englawyer
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Re: I want to wear a suit to work.

Postby englawyer » Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:35 am

Yvonnella wrote:It's naive to think that managers in law firms do not take any note of how their people dress. There's a lot of coffee here that needs to be smelled. Prefer to dress at the minimum acceptable level? Do it. Better hope that you blow their minds with your incredible legal prowess on your way to discovering what reality holds in store, though. I made a suggestion encouraging people to dress nicely and professionally now and then. In other words, quietly step up your act. I didn't suggest that treating co-workers with condescension was appropriate. Smile, be courteous, polite, and professional, and dress nicely. It will do your career nothing but good. And yes, managing partners will notice. And they'll like it.

Alternatively, remind yourself and others daily that you're smarter than your boss. Dress like you're watching TV. Complain about not being able to wear shorts and flip flops, and most importantly, tell yourself that you're indispensable. After all, you're entitled to be yourself wherever you are because you cannot be replaced.

Your choice.


a firm's dress code is embedded in the culture. if the partners deliberately chose business casual but you wear a suit, you are not fitting in w/ the firm's culture. there are firms that are business formal. if you want to dress that way, go ahead and work at those firms; otherwise you will risk alienating the partners and associates where you work.

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BunkMoreland
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Re: I want to wear a suit to work.

Postby BunkMoreland » Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:12 am

englawyer wrote:
Yvonnella wrote:It's naive to think that managers in law firms do not take any note of how their people dress. There's a lot of coffee here that needs to be smelled. Prefer to dress at the minimum acceptable level? Do it. Better hope that you blow their minds with your incredible legal prowess on your way to discovering what reality holds in store, though. I made a suggestion encouraging people to dress nicely and professionally now and then. In other words, quietly step up your act. I didn't suggest that treating co-workers with condescension was appropriate. Smile, be courteous, polite, and professional, and dress nicely. It will do your career nothing but good. And yes, managing partners will notice. And they'll like it.

Alternatively, remind yourself and others daily that you're smarter than your boss. Dress like you're watching TV. Complain about not being able to wear shorts and flip flops, and most importantly, tell yourself that you're indispensable. After all, you're entitled to be yourself wherever you are because you cannot be replaced.

Your choice.


a firm's dress code is embedded in the culture. if the partners deliberately chose business casual but you wear a suit, you are not fitting in w/ the firm's culture. there are firms that are business formal. if you want to dress that way, go ahead and work at those firms; otherwise you will risk alienating the partners and associates where you work.



Just do eliminate 99% of firms because you want to wear a suit bro

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englawyer
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Re: I want to wear a suit to work.

Postby englawyer » Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:20 am

well yes, if you want to wear a suit every single day this is probably not the right profession because it will not fit in with 99% of firms. enterprise rent-a-car regularly hires college grads and you can wear a suit every day there if you want.

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northwood
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Re: I want to wear a suit to work.

Postby northwood » Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:22 am

see what the attorneys wear and wear something similar..

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BunkMoreland
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Re: I want to wear a suit to work.

Postby BunkMoreland » Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:26 am

englawyer wrote:well yes, if you want to wear a suit every single day this is probably not the right profession because it will not fit in with 99% of firms. enterprise rent-a-car regularly hires college grads and you can wear a suit every day there if you want.


ignore him, OP. If you want to wear a suit every day, then do it. Just don't act holier than thou about it, and expect mild ribbing from your workmates.

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Yvonnella
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Re: I want to wear a suit to work.

Postby Yvonnella » Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:06 pm

BunkMoreland wrote:
englawyer wrote:well yes, if you want to wear a suit every single day this is probably not the right profession because it will not fit in with 99% of firms. enterprise rent-a-car regularly hires college grads and you can wear a suit every day there if you want.


ignore him, OP. If you want to wear a suit every day, then do it. Just don't act holier than thou about it, and expect mild ribbing from your workmates.


Yes. And the mild ribbing will go away when one establishes a consistent pattern of dress.

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fatduck
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Re: I want to wear a suit to work.

Postby fatduck » Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:08 pm

Yvonnella wrote:
BunkMoreland wrote:
englawyer wrote:well yes, if you want to wear a suit every single day this is probably not the right profession because it will not fit in with 99% of firms. enterprise rent-a-car regularly hires college grads and you can wear a suit every day there if you want.


ignore him, OP. If you want to wear a suit every day, then do it. Just don't act holier than thou about it, and expect mild ribbing from your workmates.


Yes. And the mild ribbing will go away when one establishes a consistent pattern of dress.

this is correct. after a while, they'll just start talking about you behind your back.

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AreJay711
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Re: I want to wear a suit to work.

Postby AreJay711 » Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:40 pm

I doubt anyone would give a fuck. Some people like to dress up, other people like to take full advantage of denim friday. If you are such a douche that you would care because your co-worker throws on a jacket and a tie into work every day then you have a problem. Most people really wouldn't give a fuck.

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romothesavior
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Re: I want to wear a suit to work.

Postby romothesavior » Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:27 pm

How the hell did I miss this thread? A sartorial discussion with my favorite idiot poster in the mix? This thread should be full of win.

Yvonella, I consider myself a pretty well dressed person when it comes to business and business casual settings. I unfortunately don't have the coin to make my wardrobe quite as extensive as I would like, but I'd say my business wardrobe is up there with just about anyone in law school. I love dressing up, and wish I could wear a suit every day.

That said, I absolutely do not wear a suit to my SA job because it would be pretentious. The firm I work for consciously strives for a laid back, informal environment, and part of this vibe is the dress code. Do I wish I could bust out the suits and ties? Yep. They're just sitting and collecting dust. But I'm just a summer associate, and it's not my place to come to work in a suit when a lot of people are in jeans, polos, etc. It's not only pretentious, but totally dweebish as well. It's a dumb thing to do and is likely to lead to snickers and raised eyebrows, especially if they've explicitly told you to dress down. Following instructions is, umm... kinda important when you're an intern.

This isn't to say I don't try. You likely won't ever see me in jeans in the office, and I try to be one of the better dressed people in the office if can. My goal is to stay within the acceptable range of what my firm considers "business casual," but be on the high side of it. I want to simultaneously blend in while looking polished.

tl;dr: OP, you made the right call. Yvonella, you're flat out wrong.

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dresden doll
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Re: I want to wear a suit to work.

Postby dresden doll » Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:31 pm

Yvonnella wrote:
I've never taken a smile to be snide.


You also think it's a fantastic idea to dress up even in a firm where partners themselves wear business casual, so I think we can safely say your judgment isn't the trustiest.

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dingbat
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Re: I want to wear a suit to work.

Postby dingbat » Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:32 pm

romothesavior wrote:This isn't to say I don't try. You likely won't ever see me in jeans in the office, and I try to be one of the better dressed people in the office if can. My goal is to stay within the acceptable range of what my firm considers "business casual," but be on the high side of it. I want to simultaneously blend in while looking polished.

TITC

You should strive to dress better than average for the place but not be the best-dressed in the office (basically, if 1 is the janitor and 10 is the best-dressed in the place, be a 7 or an 8)
Do not dress (much) better than your boss

Anonymous User
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Re: I want to wear a suit to work.

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:58 pm

Does the advice given here change at all if you work somewhere (a) with no explicit dress code and (b) where some people show up in suits every day, some people show up in business casual, and some people show up in jeans/t-shirts/sneakers? Does it matter either way what I show up in, as long as it's neat/presentable? Smallish west coast V100 office if it matters.

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dingbat
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Re: I want to wear a suit to work.

Postby dingbat » Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Does the advice given here change at all if you work somewhere (a) with no explicit dress code and (b) where some people show up in suits every day, some people show up in business casual, and some people show up in jeans/t-shirts/sneakers? Does it matter either way what I show up in, as long as it's neat/presentable? Smallish west coast V100 office if it matters.

dingbat wrote:You should strive to dress better than average for the place but not be the best-dressed in the office (basically, if 1 is the janitor and 10 is the best-dressed in the place, be a 7 or an 8)
Do not dress (much) better than your boss

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romothesavior
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Re: I want to wear a suit to work.

Postby romothesavior » Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Does the advice given here change at all if you work somewhere (a) with no explicit dress code and (b) where some people show up in suits every day, some people show up in business casual, and some people show up in jeans/t-shirts/sneakers? Does it matter either way what I show up in, as long as it's neat/presentable? Smallish west coast V100 office if it matters.

Yeah in that case wear what you're comfortable with that falls in the acceptable range. My experience at my firm is one where laid back and casual is the conscious norm, so a suit every day would be a bit of an affront to the culture. Would it be a big deal? Eh, Maybe not, but it would look out of place and seem gunnerish. In your office, it sounds fine. Hell, I'd probably wear a suit if I were in your shoes. I love suitting up.

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romothesavior
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Re: I want to wear a suit to work.

Postby romothesavior » Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:15 pm

I dunno dingbat, I don't think there's anything wrong with being the best dressed in the office as long as you are not 1) overdressed or 2) too flash (e.g., leave the pinstripe three button at home).

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dingbat
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Re: I want to wear a suit to work.

Postby dingbat » Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:18 pm

romothesavior wrote:I dunno dingbat, I don't think there's anything wrong with being the best dressed in the office as long as you are not 1) overdressed or 2) too flash (e.g., leave the pinstripe three button at home).

As long as you're not over the top, it's fine, but I feel that before you stand out for your wardrobe, you need to earn the right to stand out (by being good at your job)

Once you've proven yourself, you can do whatever you want. Until then, wear the uniform

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Yvonnella
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Re: I want to wear a suit to work.

Postby Yvonnella » Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:30 am

fatduck wrote:
Yvonnella wrote:
BunkMoreland wrote:
englawyer wrote:well yes, if you want to wear a suit every single day this is probably not the right profession because it will not fit in with 99% of firms. enterprise rent-a-car regularly hires college grads and you can wear a suit every day there if you want.


ignore him, OP. If you want to wear a suit every day, then do it. Just don't act holier than thou about it, and expect mild ribbing from your workmates.


Yes. And the mild ribbing will go away when one establishes a consistent pattern of dress.

this is correct. after a while, they'll just start talking about you behind your back.


If the worst thing you have to worry about is people talking behind your back about how you dress up once a week and dress more business casual the rest of the time, then life must be pretty good. Really, the inexperience that people exhibit in this forum is hilarious. But some flies have gotten into the room. Bye-bye, boys.

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romothesavior
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Re: I want to wear a suit to work.

Postby romothesavior » Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:13 am

Yvonnella wrote:If the worst thing you have to worry about is people talking behind your back about how you dress up once a week and dress more business casual the rest of the time, then life must be pretty good. Really, the inexperience that people exhibit in this forum is hilarious. But some flies have gotten into the room. Bye-bye, boys.

I always underestimate how ignorant and insufferable you are.

Anonymous User
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Re: I want to wear a suit to work.

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:38 am

My partner mentor and I were talking about dress, and he said it well: You never want to stand out because of dress because it will only be for the wrong reasons. My firm is business formal so you are never going to be singled out as the well-dressed guy. And even on our casual friday, it skews more toward the business side, so throwing a tie on isn't really all that huge a change.

But my firm has that extra formal attitude and atmosphere. Some firms like to have a more laid back feel. And as my mentor said, you never want to stand out because of dress. You do not want to risk offending or seemingly snubbing your nose at an atmosphere and laid back attitude that the partners may embrace and strive to maintain.

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20130312
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Re: I want to wear a suit to work.

Postby 20130312 » Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:41 am

romothesavior wrote:
Yvonnella wrote:If the worst thing you have to worry about is people talking behind your back about how you dress up once a week and dress more business casual the rest of the time, then life must be pretty good. Really, the inexperience that people exhibit in this forum is hilarious. But some flies have gotten into the room. Bye-bye, boys.

I always underestimate how ignorant and insufferable you are.


Seriously, this. At my biz cas corporate job, we have one guy who wears a suit everyday. We make fun of him. A lot. And since we are loud in our cubicles, he can probably hear us. But no one cares, because he is "that guy that wears a suit." Nothing wrong with his personality or work quality, but guess who won't be getting that promotion when one rolls around? That guy that wears a suit.

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romothesavior
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Re: I want to wear a suit to work.

Postby romothesavior » Sun Jun 03, 2012 11:39 am

Anonymous User wrote:But my firm has that extra formal attitude and atmosphere. Some firms like to have a more laid back feel. And as my mentor said, you never want to stand out because of dress. You do not want to risk offending or seemingly snubbing your nose at an atmosphere and laid back attitude that the partners may embrace and strive to maintain.

So much this.

I don't think I would "offend" anyone by suiting up, but I definitely think the thought would be, "Is this guy a good fit for our firm?" I had a young associate (my mentor) tell me he used to suit up for the hell of it fairly regularly and he actually got pulled aside by someone on a Friday one time and asked why he was wearing a suit so often. I'm sure it wasn't a "Don't wear a suit or you're fired" conversation, but he definitely felt like he was standing out in a way that wasn't good for him. He now wears polos most of the time.

So Yvonella, when you strip away your overbroad generalities, annoying personality, and sneering condescension, you're just flat out wrong. On everything. All the time.

itbdvorm
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Re: I want to wear a suit to work.

Postby itbdvorm » Sun Jun 03, 2012 5:48 pm

for the record:

I am a senior associate at a firm where business casual is the norm

I think a junior person, wearing a suit every day, would look like an asshole.

I get it at the beginning of the summer associate position when people are nervous. But a guy who wore a suit all summer would seem goofy.

Are you going to get fired for this? No. But why not fit in when there's no reason you can't fit in?

We're looking for "one of us", not "one who thinks he's too good for us"




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