ITT: Summer Associates Post About Their Anxiety (2012)

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chup
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Re: ITT: Summer Associates Post About Their Anxiety (2012)

Postby chup » Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Really confused here, any advice/insight is welcome. So I met with my mentor partner to go over arguments in a case that I'm working on. So far he's only had me make one very minor change to one assignment but other than that has filed everything I've submitted without any changes. After we went through the arguments he said that I shouldn't be trying to do as much work as possible or take on multiple assignments, but enjoy the summer and "just see how things go around here." WTF does that mean? He also gave me a weird look when I asked if I should get experience working with related practice areas this summer (all of my work thus far has been in a very narrow field of practice). Quality isn't an issue because he told me the quality is great. I'm beyond confused at what he was trying to get at.

Dude, if someone tells you to relax and enjoy your summer and you ask them if that means you should get experience in related practice areas of COURSE they're going to look at you like you're a weirdo.

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monkey85
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Re: ITT: Summer Associates Post About Their Anxiety (2012)

Postby monkey85 » Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:32 pm

chup wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Really confused here, any advice/insight is welcome. So I met with my mentor partner to go over arguments in a case that I'm working on. So far he's only had me make one very minor change to one assignment but other than that has filed everything I've submitted without any changes. After we went through the arguments he said that I shouldn't be trying to do as much work as possible or take on multiple assignments, but enjoy the summer and "just see how things go around here." WTF does that mean? He also gave me a weird look when I asked if I should get experience working with related practice areas this summer (all of my work thus far has been in a very narrow field of practice). Quality isn't an issue because he told me the quality is great. I'm beyond confused at what he was trying to get at.

Dude, if someone tells you to relax and enjoy your summer and you ask them if that means you should get experience in related practice areas of COURSE they're going to look at you like you're a weirdo.


But to the credit of "Really confused" anonymous user: it is a lot easier for a partner with a solid job and salary to say "chill out," than for a summer associate who is still waiting for his/her offer.

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Re: ITT: Summer Associates Post About Their Anxiety (2012)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:33 pm

chup wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Really confused here, any advice/insight is welcome. So I met with my mentor partner to go over arguments in a case that I'm working on. So far he's only had me make one very minor change to one assignment but other than that has filed everything I've submitted without any changes. After we went through the arguments he said that I shouldn't be trying to do as much work as possible or take on multiple assignments, but enjoy the summer and "just see how things go around here." WTF does that mean? He also gave me a weird look when I asked if I should get experience working with related practice areas this summer (all of my work thus far has been in a very narrow field of practice). Quality isn't an issue because he told me the quality is great. I'm beyond confused at what he was trying to get at.

Dude, if someone tells you to relax and enjoy your summer and you ask them if that means you should get experience in related practice areas of COURSE they're going to look at you like you're a weirdo.


OP on the earlier post here. I asked that question before he tossed out the enjoy your summer line. FWIW, I actually am enjoying my summer. I'm only there from like 9-6ish and the work is interesting. I guess I just don't see how sitting around or being unproductive is a positive.

rad lulz
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Re: ITT: Summer Associates Post About Their Anxiety (2012)

Postby rad lulz » Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
chup wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Really confused here, any advice/insight is welcome. So I met with my mentor partner to go over arguments in a case that I'm working on. So far he's only had me make one very minor change to one assignment but other than that has filed everything I've submitted without any changes. After we went through the arguments he said that I shouldn't be trying to do as much work as possible or take on multiple assignments, but enjoy the summer and "just see how things go around here." WTF does that mean? He also gave me a weird look when I asked if I should get experience working with related practice areas this summer (all of my work thus far has been in a very narrow field of practice). Quality isn't an issue because he told me the quality is great. I'm beyond confused at what he was trying to get at.

Dude, if someone tells you to relax and enjoy your summer and you ask them if that means you should get experience in related practice areas of COURSE they're going to look at you like you're a weirdo.


OP on the earlier post here. I asked that question before he tossed out the enjoy your summer line. FWIW, I actually am enjoying my summer. I'm only there from like 9-6ish and the work is interesting. I guess I just don't see how sitting around or being unproductive is a positive.

You're an SA. You're inherently unproductive. HTH.

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romothesavior
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Re: ITT: Summer Associates Post About Their Anxiety (2012)

Postby romothesavior » Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:16 pm

Good god you people are neurotic. I'm enjoying my summer and so is everyone else I'm working with.

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sunynp
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Re: ITT: Summer Associates Post About Their Anxiety (2012)

Postby sunynp » Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:19 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
chup wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Really confused here, any advice/insight is welcome. So I met with my mentor partner to go over arguments in a case that I'm working on. So far he's only had me make one very minor change to one assignment but other than that has filed everything I've submitted without any changes. After we went through the arguments he said that I shouldn't be trying to do as much work as possible or take on multiple assignments, but enjoy the summer and "just see how things go around here." WTF does that mean? He also gave me a weird look when I asked if I should get experience working with related practice areas this summer (all of my work thus far has been in a very narrow field of practice). Quality isn't an issue because he told me the quality is great. I'm beyond confused at what he was trying to get at.

Dude, if someone tells you to relax and enjoy your summer and you ask them if that means you should get experience in related practice areas of COURSE they're going to look at you like you're a weirdo.


OP on the earlier post here. I asked that question before he tossed out the enjoy your summer line. FWIW, I actually am enjoying my summer. I'm only there from like 9-6ish and the work is interesting. I guess I just don't see how sitting around or being unproductive is a positive.


You probably need to relax a little bit, it sounds like you are doing great work. So you have the hardest part covered. But he doesn't want you to be a workaholic. The next time someone suggests you need to enjoy your summer, talk about some fun plans you have and/or ask them which things they enjoy most about the city. Work on being personable and enthusiastic about the summer beyond just the work.

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Re: ITT: Summer Associates Post About Their Anxiety (2012)

Postby jeeptiger09 » Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:36 pm

romothesavior wrote:Good god you people are neurotic. I'm enjoying my summer and so is everyone else I'm working with.


Thank you, I could not agree with this more. Maybe if you all realized that mistakes will happen, every associate was a summer at one point (so they can empathize with you), and move on (instead of dwelling or looking for an anonymous user to comfort/rip your actions) then maybe wouldn't tell you to chill out so much.

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fundamentallybroken
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Re: ITT: Summer Associates Post About Their Anxiety (2012)

Postby fundamentallybroken » Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:49 pm

romothesavior wrote:Good god you people are neurotic. I'm enjoying my summer and so is everyone else I'm working with.

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ph14
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Re: ITT: Summer Associates Post About Their Anxiety (2012)

Postby ph14 » Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:54 pm

Really enjoying my summer as well. My firm is definitely not working me too hard and is trying to give me a great experience.

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Re: ITT: Summer Associates Post About Their Anxiety (2012)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:14 am

kinda got the feeling the partner I work with is a dick today. went to his office to discuss a memo I'd written but he obviously hadn't read it, said we're discussing it now as he read it incredibly quickly, and told me we were done pretty quickly. any ideas on how to... not feel bad about that?

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ph14
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Re: ITT: Summer Associates Post About Their Anxiety (2012)

Postby ph14 » Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:15 am

Anonymous User wrote:kinda got the feeling the partner I work with is a dick today. went to his office to discuss a memo I'd written but he obviously hadn't read it, said we're discussing it now as he read it incredibly quickly, and told me we were done pretty quickly. any ideas on how to... not feel bad about that?


Partners are busy. Don't take it personally.

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Re: ITT: Summer Associates Post About Their Anxiety (2012)

Postby rad lulz » Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:27 am

Anonymous User wrote:kinda got the feeling the partner I work with is a dick today. went to his office to discuss a memo I'd written but he obviously hadn't read it, said we're discussing it now as he read it incredibly quickly, and told me we were done pretty quickly. any ideas on how to... not feel bad about that?

Best compliment I ever got was when the people I wrote the memo for forwarded it to the client without changes or discussion.

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Re: ITT: Summer Associates Post About Their Anxiety (2012)

Postby vegeta » Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:03 am

Anonymous User wrote:I'm a clerk at a midlaw firm this summer, and I have a few gripes. Are these legitimate, and are they an issue at biglaw firms too (either as an SA or an associate)?

1. I'm paid hourly (clock-in/clock-out), and we're expected to be billing every minute that we are clocked in--all 8 hours in a day. Aside from the ethical concerns of such a policy, this makes for a very stressful day; I need to be very mindful even about the time I spend just going to the bathroom. I would be happy to bill 8 hours a day if I could do it in 10 hours, but this 1:1 ratio thing is seriously stressful, and forces you to make what I think are dubious billing decisions. What's is the ratio of time-in-office v. billing time for most biglaw SAs on here?

2. We each have a supervising attorney, but both myself and a few of the other clerks aren't getting enough work from our supervising attorneys to keep us busy the whole day. We've been told to branch out to other attorneys to get work when this happens, but none of the other attorneys are really interested in trying to give assignments to us. With this 1:1 billing ratio policy, I find myself literally going around to each attorney's office begging for assignments; it both annoys the attorneys and embarrasses me. We were also told in orientation that being short on assignments is an indication that people don't want you to do work for them, and will thus be viewed negatively in our evaluations, which of course adds significantly to the anxiety of not having an assignment. I know some biglaw firms have a free-market system, but are SAs/associates scrounging/begging for work like this too?

3. We've been told more or less outright that only 1 clerk (out of 4) will be considered for a full time associate position after law school. While I don't think it's wrong for them to want you to prove your worth during the summer before making an offer to you, this is turning this summer into some serious Hunger Games shit. Moreover, offers aren't made until after we find out bar results, so basically 3 of us will have flushed our 2L summer and 3L post-bar-exam/pre-bar-results time down the drain. (It also puts the firm in a far superior bargaining position when it comes to salary because they know that you just have to take what they offer you, as you won't be able to get anything else by then.) While I know the biglaw SA hiring model is different, is there this same type of atmosphere as either an SA or an associate--i.e. where you are competing against each other just to stay alive? This seems very antithetical to team-building.

4. We bill almost exclusively to insurance companies, who I'm told are notoriously stingy when paying for legal work. As a result, I'm given what seems to be some ridiculous time limits on my assignments--1 hour for researching the law, 2 hours to draft a motion from scratch. I'm panicking the whole time because I know there's no way I'm going to produce anything of decent quality in that kind of time limit. This exacerbates problem #1 too, since each assignment I do is like being in a fucking final exam, for the entire day. Are time limits on assignments more generous in biglaw?


I'm sorry man. Get out. Collect the paycheck and apply for other jobs after the summer. Not worth it even as a full-time attorney.

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Re: ITT: Summer Associates Post About Their Anxiety (2012)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:48 pm

rad lulz wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:kinda got the feeling the partner I work with is a dick today. went to his office to discuss a memo I'd written but he obviously hadn't read it, said we're discussing it now as he read it incredibly quickly, and told me we were done pretty quickly. any ideas on how to... not feel bad about that?

Best compliment I ever got was when the people I wrote the memo for forwarded it to the client without changes or discussion.


its ok. i once was working on a simple drafting assignment around the middle of the summer for a partner. the partner returns it to me at noon on the last day of the summer program (after it was sitting on his desk for 3 weeks), with a million comments. pretty sure he knew it was my last day. worked straight till 6pm to finish it. was the only summer actually working on the last day. im sure he didn't do it on purpose but still a dick move. i will not be returning there.

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romothesavior
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Re: ITT: Summer Associates Post About Their Anxiety (2012)

Postby romothesavior » Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:52 am

ph14 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:kinda got the feeling the partner I work with is a dick today. went to his office to discuss a memo I'd written but he obviously hadn't read it, said we're discussing it now as he read it incredibly quickly, and told me we were done pretty quickly. any ideas on how to... not feel bad about that?


Partners are busy. Don't take it personally.

Or call him a dick. Believe it or not, summer work is low on the priority list for most partners.

I went into a partners office the other day to discuss a memo and asked if he had 2 minutes and he bluntly told me no. Didn't take it personally or think ill of him for it. Lawyers are busy. They prioritize. We are low priority.

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Re: ITT: Summer Associates Post About Their Anxiety (2012)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:27 am

I am really enjoying my summer. There isn't too much work but enough to not make you feel like your wasting your time. My only concern stems from a large grade drop, which is probably worse since I am a 1L.

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Re: ITT: Summer Associates Post About Their Anxiety (2012)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:51 pm

Hi there. I was wondering if any of you guys know or have heard about employers' monitoring of internet usage (maybe someone knows a person who does HR stuff). I work at a govt agency, and I usually keep one of my web browser tabs on Yahoo news and check it about every 15 minutes just to glance over the headlines, and if there's an article that catches my eye, I might open it and quickly read it. Do you think this will get me in trouble? I'm afraid that there's some automatic machine that checks my Internet usage and it'll think that I'm just browsing non-work stuff all day.

Another quick question. The Jerry Sandusky trial is currently going on. I saw one of the headlines about the witness testimony and clicked on it. I realized though that the subject matter might seem kind of weird to an automatic monitoring system (read: it looks like I'm reading about molestation and sodomy). Do you think I'd get in trouble for this, too?

Anybody else have internet usage stories? Thanks. (yes, I am an anxious law student!)

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Re: ITT: Summer Associates Post About Their Anxiety (2012)

Postby fatduck » Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Hi there. I was wondering if any of you guys know or have heard about employers' monitoring of internet usage (maybe someone knows a person who does HR stuff). I work at a govt agency, and I usually keep one of my web browser tabs on Yahoo news and check it about every 15 minutes just to glance over the headlines, and if there's an article that catches my eye, I might open it and quickly read it. Do you think this will get me in trouble? I'm afraid that there's some automatic machine that checks my Internet usage and it'll think that I'm just browsing non-work stuff all day.

Another quick question. The Jerry Sandusky trial is currently going on. I saw one of the headlines about the witness testimony and clicked on it. I realized though that the subject matter might seem kind of weird to an automatic monitoring system (read: it looks like I'm reading about molestation and sodomy). Do you think I'd get in trouble for this, too?

Anybody else have internet usage stories? Thanks. (yes, I am an anxious law student!)

in a gov't office, you can be certain that someone is monitoring everything. i doubt anyone cares, though.

ruski
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Re: ITT: Summer Associates Post About Their Anxiety (2012)

Postby ruski » Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:58 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Hi there. I was wondering if any of you guys know or have heard about employers' monitoring of internet usage (maybe someone knows a person who does HR stuff). I work at a govt agency, and I usually keep one of my web browser tabs on Yahoo news and check it about every 15 minutes just to glance over the headlines, and if there's an article that catches my eye, I might open it and quickly read it. Do you think this will get me in trouble? I'm afraid that there's some automatic machine that checks my Internet usage and it'll think that I'm just browsing non-work stuff all day.

Another quick question. The Jerry Sandusky trial is currently going on. I saw one of the headlines about the witness testimony and clicked on it. I realized though that the subject matter might seem kind of weird to an automatic monitoring system (read: it looks like I'm reading about molestation and sodomy). Do you think I'd get in trouble for this, too?

Anybody else have internet usage stories? Thanks. (yes, I am an anxious law student!)


chill dude. anything not blocked is fine. what, you think all the other employers at the gov agency are workaholics who can resist the urge from browsing the net. esp at a gov agency? haha give me a break

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Re: ITT: Summer Associates Post About Their Anxiety (2012)

Postby r6_philly » Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:59 pm

fatduck wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Hi there. I was wondering if any of you guys know or have heard about employers' monitoring of internet usage (maybe someone knows a person who does HR stuff). I work at a govt agency, and I usually keep one of my web browser tabs on Yahoo news and check it about every 15 minutes just to glance over the headlines, and if there's an article that catches my eye, I might open it and quickly read it. Do you think this will get me in trouble? I'm afraid that there's some automatic machine that checks my Internet usage and it'll think that I'm just browsing non-work stuff all day.

Another quick question. The Jerry Sandusky trial is currently going on. I saw one of the headlines about the witness testimony and clicked on it. I realized though that the subject matter might seem kind of weird to an automatic monitoring system (read: it looks like I'm reading about molestation and sodomy). Do you think I'd get in trouble for this, too?

Anybody else have internet usage stories? Thanks. (yes, I am an anxious law student!)

in a gov't office, you can be certain that someone is monitoring everything. i doubt anyone cares, though.


They are monitoring, but I doubt they are actively monitoring. I don't think government agencies has the resources to do that. Not gov agency, my former work places recorded/logged everything, but no one would go through them unless there is a reason to.

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fatduck
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Re: ITT: Summer Associates Post About Their Anxiety (2012)

Postby fatduck » Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:03 pm

r6_philly wrote:
fatduck wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Hi there. I was wondering if any of you guys know or have heard about employers' monitoring of internet usage (maybe someone knows a person who does HR stuff). I work at a govt agency, and I usually keep one of my web browser tabs on Yahoo news and check it about every 15 minutes just to glance over the headlines, and if there's an article that catches my eye, I might open it and quickly read it. Do you think this will get me in trouble? I'm afraid that there's some automatic machine that checks my Internet usage and it'll think that I'm just browsing non-work stuff all day.

Another quick question. The Jerry Sandusky trial is currently going on. I saw one of the headlines about the witness testimony and clicked on it. I realized though that the subject matter might seem kind of weird to an automatic monitoring system (read: it looks like I'm reading about molestation and sodomy). Do you think I'd get in trouble for this, too?

Anybody else have internet usage stories? Thanks. (yes, I am an anxious law student!)

in a gov't office, you can be certain that someone is monitoring everything. i doubt anyone cares, though.


They are monitoring, but I doubt they are actively monitoring. I don't think government agencies has the resources to do that. Not gov agency, my former work places recorded/logged everything, but no one would go through them unless there is a reason to.

i'm sure someone, somewhere gets an email every day of everyone's web activity. it's probably some worthless regulatory requirement. whether or not anyone actually looks at it is a different question. like i said, i doubt anyone cares.

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Re: ITT: Summer Associates Post About Their Anxiety (2012)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:09 pm

Thanks for the responses. I guess my paranoia flared up because I do NOT want any employer to even think for a split second that I was browsing the Internet for sex stuff.

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fatduck
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Re: ITT: Summer Associates Post About Their Anxiety (2012)

Postby fatduck » Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Thanks for the responses. I guess my paranoia flared up because I do NOT want any employer to even think for a split second that I would do anything related to sex crimes.

so far it sounds like you've played it very cool. next step is to just randomly blurt out "I DON'T LIKE LITTLE BOYS" in the middle of conversations. then they'll know you're clean.

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Re: ITT: Summer Associates Post About Their Anxiety (2012)

Postby r6_philly » Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Thanks for the responses. I guess my paranoia flared up because I do NOT want any employer to even think for a split second that I was browsing the Internet for sex stuff.


Use your phone if you are so paranoid.

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Re: ITT: Summer Associates Post About Their Anxiety (2012)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:18 pm

Have any of you gotten the "caselaw research assignment with no answer" project yet?

How did you deal with it? What did you deliver to the assigning attorney/partner?

I got that assignment and feel like I am researching in a blackhole that leads to more blackholes.




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