ITT: Summer Associates Post About Their Anxiety (2012)

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bjsesq
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Re: ITT: Summer Associates Post About Their Anxiety (2012)

Postby bjsesq » Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:35 pm

Big Shrimpin wrote:Ugh sorry y'all. Small firms/offices? Did you ask for reasons?

Just gotta beat the pavement again and hope for the best. Call everyone you know, apply everywhere, etc. If it wasn't work-related, then it shouldn't hurt you going forward in interviews.


Large firm/office. I haven't been provided reasons yet. Still attempting to determine how many were no offered. Spoke to one other summer, and she suffered the same fate.

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TTH
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Re: ITT: Summer Associates Post About Their Anxiety (2012)

Postby TTH » Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:36 pm

I can't claim it was an entire surprise. I was at a smaller firm that I knew might not be able to commit to making me a full-time offer next year just because they may not have a spot for me. That's exactly what happened, according to the hiring partner and managing partner. My WP was great, people liked me, etc. Gonna try to find out if someone put the kibosh on me that I don't know about, but I don't think that's the case.

I'm still going to clerk there throughout the year and hope that their business picks up or at the very least stay in the face of the partners with whom I'm really friendly to get their help finding something else.

I feel like kind of a fool for taking this offer when I had more secure options, but we really wanted to stay in this city versus move away to some less desireable places. Oh well. I've got a year to hustle something up.

Best wishes, Boo. I'm sure we'll both land on our feet.

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Re: ITT: Summer Associates Post About Their Anxiety (2012)

Postby bjsesq » Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:37 pm

TTH wrote:Best wishes, Boo.


Same to you, dude.

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Re: ITT: Summer Associates Post About Their Anxiety (2012)

Postby Big Shrimpin » Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:39 pm

Sorry guys, and godspeed.

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Re: ITT: Summer Associates Post About Their Anxiety (2012)

Postby EvilClinton » Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:40 pm

So I am too new to answer this, but doesn't it seem like there are many more no offers this year than in years past?

Even established posters at large firms are suffering? It seems like this goes against general TLS wisdom that an SA is a guaranteed job unless you screw it up.

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Re: ITT: Summer Associates Post About Their Anxiety (2012)

Postby bjsesq » Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:41 pm

EvilClinton wrote:So I am too new to answer this, but doesn't it seem like there are many more no offers this year than in years past?

Even established posters at large firms are suffering? It seems like this goes against general TLS wisdom that an SA is a guaranteed job unless you screw it up.


I can't give you a solid answer until I talk to the rest of my summer class. I'll be open about it.

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Re: ITT: Summer Associates Post About Their Anxiety (2012)

Postby The Duck » Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:45 pm

bjsesq wrote:
TTH wrote:Best wishes, Boo.


Same to you, dude.


Good luck to you both.
Last edited by The Duck on Thu Oct 18, 2012 11:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: ITT: Summer Associates Post About Their Anxiety (2012)

Postby goodolgil » Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:59 pm

EvilClinton wrote:So I am too new to answer this, but doesn't it seem like there are many more no offers this year than in years past?

Even established posters at large firms are suffering? It seems like this goes against general TLS wisdom that an SA is a guaranteed job unless you screw it up.


Established posters?

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Re: ITT: Summer Associates Post About Their Anxiety (2012)

Postby EvilClinton » Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:01 pm

goodolgil wrote:
EvilClinton wrote:So I am too new to answer this, but doesn't it seem like there are many more no offers this year than in years past?

Even established posters at large firms are suffering? It seems like this goes against general TLS wisdom that an SA is a guaranteed job unless you screw it up.


Established posters?

I just assume established posters have read all the "Success as an SA" threads and won't make really stupid mistakes like missing big deadlines or getting too drunk at a work function.

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Re: ITT: Summer Associates Post About Their Anxiety (2012)

Postby alphasteve » Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:15 pm

bjsesq wrote:
Dany wrote:
bjsesq wrote:No offer pwned.

Sorry boo. I have complete confidence you will find something else that's great, though.


I admit, my confidence is shook. Can't really sit around and feel sorry for myself now, though.

Shuck and move dude. You know what's up.

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Re: ITT: Summer Associates Post About Their Anxiety (2012)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:56 pm

bjsesq wrote:
EvilClinton wrote:So I am too new to answer this, but doesn't it seem like there are many more no offers this year than in years past?

Even established posters at large firms are suffering? It seems like this goes against general TLS wisdom that an SA is a guaranteed job unless you screw it up.


I can't give you a solid answer until I talk to the rest of my summer class. I'll be open about it.


Sorry man.. Would you mind sharing the HQ of the firm?
And how did they notify you?

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Re: ITT: Summer Associates Post About Their Anxiety (2012)

Postby bjsesq » Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:58 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
bjsesq wrote:
EvilClinton wrote:So I am too new to answer this, but doesn't it seem like there are many more no offers this year than in years past?

Even established posters at large firms are suffering? It seems like this goes against general TLS wisdom that an SA is a guaranteed job unless you screw it up.


I can't give you a solid answer until I talk to the rest of my summer class. I'll be open about it.


Sorry man.. Would you mind sharing the HQ of the firm?
And how did they notify you?


Chicago. Phone.

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Re: ITT: Summer Associates Post About Their Anxiety (2012)

Postby romothesavior » Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:23 pm

Sorry to hear it boo and TTH. Best of luck to both, I'm sure you'll both land on your feet.

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Re: ITT: Summer Associates Post About Their Anxiety (2012)

Postby keg411 » Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:28 pm

romothesavior wrote:Sorry to hear it boo and TTH. Best of luck to both, I'm sure you'll both land on your feet.


+1

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Re: ITT: Summer Associates Post About Their Anxiety (2012)

Postby SchopenhauerFTW » Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:30 pm

We're all rooting for you guys.

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Re: ITT: Summer Associates Post About Their Anxiety (2012)

Postby rad lulz » Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:57 pm

EvilClinton wrote:Even established posters at large firms are suffering? It seems like this goes against general TLS wisdom that an SA is a guaranteed job unless you screw it up.

Sorry to diarrhea all over your parade bro, but that's not how it works anymore. It's not 2006.

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Re: ITT: Summer Associates Post About Their Anxiety (2012)

Postby solotee » Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:03 pm

Sorry for the bad news. I'm sure you're in more of a competitive position than most to get something going forward. Good luck!

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Re: ITT: Summer Associates Post About Their Anxiety (2012)

Postby LawIdiot86 » Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:36 pm

solotee wrote:Sorry for the bad news. I'm sure you're in more of a competitive position than most to get something going forward. Good luck!


Yes, they are both infinitely better off having done an SA and getting the firm name on their resume. Did either firm say if they would soft-offer you on a reference? Did you have strong contacts there who would go to bat for you as references? My advice would be to get on OSCAR now and apply for every clerkship listed. All 400 of them. Right now you're in a sweet spot where judges are going to look favorably on you the first week of September and you don't have to explain why you didn't go back to your firm. Second week of September should be dedicated to applying to all the government honors programs, even the non-legal ones like PMF and Pathways. The agency I'm interning at this semester just hired three entry-level lawyers not through an honors program, so consider calling nearby agencies that you have a plausible story for.

As to why a bunch of people on this thread got no-offered, there are no statistics yet, but I have a narrative from what I saw in my own SA. Pre-ITE, firms would hire 100 associates, knowing that 70-80 would leave in the first year or two because they weren't really firm material. Only 20-30 could cut it as senior associates doing the hard legal drafting and analysis. When the economy went south, firms downsized their classes to maybe 30 summers and raised their GPA/USNWR standards, but weren't thinking long-term. Now that we're four years into this economy, firms are realizing that clients will never pay for crappy first years again and that they don't have enough senior associates to do the actual work. Only 6-9 of the reduced classes of 20-30 are able to do the higher level analysis. Now firms are using the summer programs to try and identify people who aren't just good first year lawyers, but can already do some of the higher level functions senior associates do. It's not just whether they can spot the issue and turn in good work-product on-time, it's whether the firm is sure they can pound out a perfect brief in a 16 hour adderall-induced mania. What this means is that the traditional wisdom on TLS and from CSOs is less applicable.

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Re: ITT: Summer Associates Post About Their Anxiety (2012)

Postby IAFG » Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:44 pm

LawIdiot86 wrote:
solotee wrote:Sorry for the bad news. I'm sure you're in more of a competitive position than most to get something going forward. Good luck!


Yes, they are both infinitely better off having done an SA and getting the firm name on their resume. Did either firm say if they would soft-offer you on a reference? Did you have strong contacts there who would go to bat for you as references? My advice would be to get on OSCAR now and apply for every clerkship listed. All 400 of them. Right now you're in a sweet spot where judges are going to look favorably on you the first week of September and you don't have to explain why you didn't go back to your firm. Second week of September should be dedicated to applying to all the government honors programs, even the non-legal ones like PMF and Pathways. The agency I'm interning at this semester just hired three entry-level lawyers not through an honors program, so consider calling nearby agencies that you have a plausible story for.

As to why a bunch of people on this thread got no-offered, there are no statistics yet, but I have a narrative from what I saw in my own SA. Pre-ITE, firms would hire 100 associates, knowing that 70-80 would leave in the first year or two because they weren't really firm material. Only 20-30 could cut it as senior associates doing the hard legal drafting and analysis. When the economy went south, firms downsized their classes to maybe 30 summers and raised their GPA/USNWR standards, but weren't thinking long-term. Now that we're four years into this economy, firms are realizing that clients will never pay for crappy first years again and that they don't have enough senior associates to do the actual work. Only 6-9 of the reduced classes of 20-30 are able to do the higher level analysis. Now firms are using the summer programs to try and identify people who aren't just good first year lawyers, but can already do some of the higher level functions senior associates do. It's not just whether they can spot the issue and turn in good work-product on-time, it's whether the firm is sure they can pound out a perfect brief in a 16 hour adderall-induced mania. What this means is that the traditional wisdom on TLS and from CSOs is less applicable.

I don't know anyone whose summer looked anything like the bolded

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Re: ITT: Summer Associates Post About Their Anxiety (2012)

Postby 09042014 » Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:48 pm

Tls is just bigger than it has been in the past. c/o 13 was the first class where tls was the only online law school resource. That means many more people reporting back no offers.

Last year had the second lowest no offer rate ever. Firms were giving 100 the last two years, that weren't giving 100% during the boom times because no offers were seen a weekness this past two years.

The only firms that have been no offering more than 1-2 per office are ones who are in trouble.

If no offers are up its because things are back to normal.

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Re: ITT: Summer Associates Post About Their Anxiety (2012)

Postby LawIdiot86 » Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:51 pm

IAFG wrote:
LawIdiot86 wrote:
solotee wrote:Sorry for the bad news. I'm sure you're in more of a competitive position than most to get something going forward. Good luck!


Yes, they are both infinitely better off having done an SA and getting the firm name on their resume. Did either firm say if they would soft-offer you on a reference? Did you have strong contacts there who would go to bat for you as references? My advice would be to get on OSCAR now and apply for every clerkship listed. All 400 of them. Right now you're in a sweet spot where judges are going to look favorably on you the first week of September and you don't have to explain why you didn't go back to your firm. Second week of September should be dedicated to applying to all the government honors programs, even the non-legal ones like PMF and Pathways. The agency I'm interning at this semester just hired three entry-level lawyers not through an honors program, so consider calling nearby agencies that you have a plausible story for.

As to why a bunch of people on this thread got no-offered, there are no statistics yet, but I have a narrative from what I saw in my own SA. Pre-ITE, firms would hire 100 associates, knowing that 70-80 would leave in the first year or two because they weren't really firm material. Only 20-30 could cut it as senior associates doing the hard legal drafting and analysis. When the economy went south, firms downsized their classes to maybe 30 summers and raised their GPA/USNWR standards, but weren't thinking long-term. Now that we're four years into this economy, firms are realizing that clients will never pay for crappy first years again and that they don't have enough senior associates to do the actual work. Only 6-9 of the reduced classes of 20-30 are able to do the higher level analysis. Now firms are using the summer programs to try and identify people who aren't just good first year lawyers, but can already do some of the higher level functions senior associates do. It's not just whether they can spot the issue and turn in good work-product on-time, it's whether the firm is sure they can pound out a perfect brief in a 16 hour adderall-induced mania. What this means is that the traditional wisdom on TLS and from CSOs is less applicable.

I don't know anyone whose summer looked anything like the bolded


I had a friend who was at an announced firm luncheon a few blocks from the office. A partner called on his cell phone and he had to run through the streets to get back within five minutes, to proofread a one page email the partner planned to send. My friend also had several weekends and all-nighters. He said he once had a partner give him a large project and tell him he could not start it until a certain later time, just to see how he would perform under the gun.

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Re: ITT: Summer Associates Post About Their Anxiety (2012)

Postby letsdoit » Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:06 pm

LawIdiot86 wrote:
IAFG wrote:
LawIdiot86 wrote:
solotee wrote:Sorry for the bad news. I'm sure you're in more of a competitive position than most to get something going forward. Good luck!


Yes, they are both infinitely better off having done an SA and getting the firm name on their resume. Did either firm say if they would soft-offer you on a reference? Did you have strong contacts there who would go to bat for you as references? My advice would be to get on OSCAR now and apply for every clerkship listed. All 400 of them. Right now you're in a sweet spot where judges are going to look favorably on you the first week of September and you don't have to explain why you didn't go back to your firm. Second week of September should be dedicated to applying to all the government honors programs, even the non-legal ones like PMF and Pathways. The agency I'm interning at this semester just hired three entry-level lawyers not through an honors program, so consider calling nearby agencies that you have a plausible story for.

As to why a bunch of people on this thread got no-offered, there are no statistics yet, but I have a narrative from what I saw in my own SA. Pre-ITE, firms would hire 100 associates, knowing that 70-80 would leave in the first year or two because they weren't really firm material. Only 20-30 could cut it as senior associates doing the hard legal drafting and analysis. When the economy went south, firms downsized their classes to maybe 30 summers and raised their GPA/USNWR standards, but weren't thinking long-term. Now that we're four years into this economy, firms are realizing that clients will never pay for crappy first years again and that they don't have enough senior associates to do the actual work. Only 6-9 of the reduced classes of 20-30 are able to do the higher level analysis. Now firms are using the summer programs to try and identify people who aren't just good first year lawyers, but can already do some of the higher level functions senior associates do. It's not just whether they can spot the issue and turn in good work-product on-time, it's whether the firm is sure they can pound out a perfect brief in a 16 hour adderall-induced mania. What this means is that the traditional wisdom on TLS and from CSOs is less applicable.

I don't know anyone whose summer looked anything like the bolded


I had a friend who was at an announced firm luncheon a few blocks from the office. A partner called on his cell phone and he had to run through the streets to get back within five minutes, to proofread a one page email the partner planned to send. My friend also had several weekends and all-nighters. He said he once had a partner give him a large project and tell him he could not start it until a certain later time, just to see how he would perform under the gun.


out the firm.

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Re: ITT: Summer Associates Post About Their Anxiety (2012)

Postby LawIdiot86 » Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:22 pm

letsdoit wrote:
LawIdiot86 wrote:
IAFG wrote:
LawIdiot86 wrote:
Yes, they are both infinitely better off having done an SA and getting the firm name on their resume. Did either firm say if they would soft-offer you on a reference? Did you have strong contacts there who would go to bat for you as references? My advice would be to get on OSCAR now and apply for every clerkship listed. All 400 of them. Right now you're in a sweet spot where judges are going to look favorably on you the first week of September and you don't have to explain why you didn't go back to your firm. Second week of September should be dedicated to applying to all the government honors programs, even the non-legal ones like PMF and Pathways. The agency I'm interning at this semester just hired three entry-level lawyers not through an honors program, so consider calling nearby agencies that you have a plausible story for.

As to why a bunch of people on this thread got no-offered, there are no statistics yet, but I have a narrative from what I saw in my own SA. Pre-ITE, firms would hire 100 associates, knowing that 70-80 would leave in the first year or two because they weren't really firm material. Only 20-30 could cut it as senior associates doing the hard legal drafting and analysis. When the economy went south, firms downsized their classes to maybe 30 summers and raised their GPA/USNWR standards, but weren't thinking long-term. Now that we're four years into this economy, firms are realizing that clients will never pay for crappy first years again and that they don't have enough senior associates to do the actual work. Only 6-9 of the reduced classes of 20-30 are able to do the higher level analysis. Now firms are using the summer programs to try and identify people who aren't just good first year lawyers, but can already do some of the higher level functions senior associates do. It's not just whether they can spot the issue and turn in good work-product on-time, it's whether the firm is sure they can pound out a perfect brief in a 16 hour adderall-induced mania. What this means is that the traditional wisdom on TLS and from CSOs is less applicable.

I don't know anyone whose summer looked anything like the bolded


I had a friend who was at an announced firm luncheon a few blocks from the office. A partner called on his cell phone and he had to run through the streets to get back within five minutes, to proofread a one page email the partner planned to send. My friend also had several weekends and all-nighters. He said he once had a partner give him a large project and tell him he could not start it until a certain later time, just to see how he would perform under the gun.


out the firm.


Friend got an offer that they'll probably take ITE, so no.

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Re: ITT: Summer Associates Post About Their Anxiety (2012)

Postby rad lulz » Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:46 pm

Just got no-offered from both summer firms. Won't say the reason or the firms for fear of being outed. But that's it. Got the closure on the summer I wanted.

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Re: ITT: Summer Associates Post About Their Anxiety (2012)

Postby bjsesq » Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:48 pm

rad lulz wrote:Just got no-offered from both summer firms. Won't say the reason or the firms for fear of being outed. But that's it. Got the closure on the summer I wanted.


I think I am taking the night to wallow in self pity and booze. Tomorrow it's back to business.




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