ITT: Summer Associates Post About Their Anxiety (2012) Forum

[Old Gregg]

Not using your secretary is just dumb. When asking whether you should have your secretary do something, just ask yourself if a client should be spending $330+/hour for you to do it.

[monkey85]

Have one, but don't really need one.

Have two, bros.

[Anonymous User]

What do you guys wear to work on the weekends? Same as during the weekday?

[keg411]

What do you guys wear to work on the weekends? Same as during the weekday?

Why are you working on the weekends? You're a SA.

Am I the only one who thinks people are crazy this summer by trying to pull crazy hours, out-gun their office mates to see who can work the longest, etc.? Either that or some firms are just absolutely insane and if it's that bad as a SA, I can't even imagine what those places must be like as a junior associate.

I mean, I have work to do and all and sure I could go in and do it, but it's nothing that can't get done during the week, and it's certainly not even close to being due ASAP on Monday that I'd feel the need to go in on the weekends as a summer.

[rad lulz]

What do you guys wear to work on the weekends? Same as during the weekday?

Why are you working on the weekends?

In my office now with hat, tasseled loafers, 5" inseam shorts, and a button-front shirt.

[keg411]

What do you guys wear to work on the weekends? Same as during the weekday?

Why are you working on the weekends?

In my office now with hat, tasseled loafers, 5" inseam shorts, and a button-front shirt.

Of course you would be .
My advice for you when you're a first year: buy an air mattress.

[rad lulz]

What do you guys wear to work on the weekends? Same as during the weekday?

Why are you working on the weekends?

In my office now with hat, tasseled loafers, 5" inseam shorts, and a button-front shirt.

Of course you would be .
My advice for you when you're a first year: buy an air mattress.

I'll get a couch. Good for naps and sitting.

[Anonymous User]

One of the more awkward events of the summer: At one of the top NYC firms for the summer. Went to lunch at a nice restaurant with a couple attorneys. Maitre d' recognizes one of the senior associates in my group. Senior associate makes some very awkward conversation with him. Turns out they went to school together. Interestingly enough, the maitre d' is a Michigan Law grad.

[rad lulz]

One of the more awkward events of the summer: At one of the top NYC firms for the summer. Went to lunch at a nice restaurant with a couple attorneys. Maitre d' recognizes one of the senior associates in my group. Senior associate makes some very awkward conversation with him. Turns out they went to school together. Interestingly enough, the maitre d' is a Michigan Law grad.

Whoa.

[SchopenhauerFTW]

One of the more awkward events of the summer: At one of the top NYC firms for the summer. Went to lunch at a nice restaurant with a couple attorneys. Maitre d' recognizes one of the senior associates in my group. Senior associate makes some very awkward conversation with him. Turns out they went to school together. Interestingly enough, the maitre d' is a Michigan Law grad.

Whoa.

That is beyond awkward.

[dixiecupdrinking]

One of the more awkward events of the summer: At one of the top NYC firms for the summer. Went to lunch at a nice restaurant with a couple attorneys. Maitre d' recognizes one of the senior associates in my group. Senior associate makes some very awkward conversation with him. Turns out they went to school together. Interestingly enough, the maitre d' is a Michigan Law grad.

Whoa.

That is beyond awkward.

The maitre d' probably makes more per hour.

[3rdquartilebiglaw]

What do you guys wear to work on the weekends? Same as during the weekday?

Why are you working on the weekends?

In my office now with hat, tasseled loafers, 5" inseam shorts, and a button-front shirt.

Of course you would be .
My advice for you when you're a first year: buy an air mattress.

So glad first year associates at my law firm only average under 50 hours a week...

[Anonymous User]

Why are you working on the weekends?

In my office now with hat, tasseled loafers, 5" inseam shorts, and a button-front shirt.

Of course you would be .
My advice for you when you're a first year: buy an air mattress.

So glad first year associates at my law firm only average under 50 hours a week...

Haha, someone lied to you. Maybe 50 billable hours a week. You registered to post that?

I wear tennis shoes, khaki pants, and a polo when I work on weekends. I bet I could get away with shorts and t-shirt but eh.

What do you guys wear to work on the weekends? Same as during the weekday?

Why are you working on the weekends? You're a SA.

Am I the only one who thinks people are crazy this summer by trying to pull crazy hours, out-gun their office mates to see who can work the longest, etc.? Either that or some firms are just absolutely insane and if it's that bad as a SA, I can't even imagine what those places must be like as a junior associate.

I mean, I have work to do and all and sure I could go in and do it, but it's nothing that can't get done during the week, and it's certainly not even close to being due ASAP on Monday that I'd feel the need to go in on the weekends as a summer.

It isn't gunning to get an assignment with a deadline and then to do what it takes to meet the deadline, which may include working a weekend. Working a weekend also does not mean crazy hours. Work assignments can be unpredictable and time expectations can change. This is a service industry and, as such, workers work on the schedule that the client demands. The three assignments due next week could change on Friday afternoon to three assignments due by Monday afternoon. In work there is no "gunning."

Is this your first real job?

[Anonymous User]

Had a research assignment where I completely dropped the ball. Assigning atty went to court and basically was blindsided. I feel shitty. I take full responsibility and I don't know I would have gotten a different answer if I did it whole thing over. Opposing attorney is sleazy and tried a tactic that neither I nor the assigning attorney even thought about. How bad is this for me?

[wiseowl]

Had a research assignment where I completely dropped the ball. Assigning atty went to court and basically was blindsided. I feel shitty. I take full responsibility and I don't know I would have gotten a different answer if I did it whole thing over. Opposing attorney is sleazy and tried a tactic that neither I nor the assigning attorney even thought about. How bad is this for me?

What firm is giving a summer this kind of assignment in the first two weeks? 2-3 person shitlaw?

[rad lulz]

Also, keg, I'm working this wknd bc I go slammed on Thursday and Friday and I rotate out of this group next week. Gotta get it all done.

[Anonymous User]

What do you guys wear to work on the weekends? Same as during the weekday?

Why are you working on the weekends?

In my office now with hat, tasseled loafers, 5" inseam shorts, and a button-front shirt.

Of course you would be .
My advice for you when you're a first year: buy an air mattress.

The consensus at my firm is that senior associates put in more hours and have more stress than first years.

Honestly, I don't think there's any reason for an air mattress. If things are going crazy, then pull all-nighters. I know some guys at my firm who have pulled triple all-nighters (i.e. working consecutively through three nights without any sleep over that period). If things are crazy, but not that crazy, then go back to your apartment and get 3 to 5 hours of sleep. I know a number of guys who have done this. Honestly, I don't know how long your commute would have to be where it's that big of a hassle to get back to your home to the point of wanting or having to store an air mattress in your office.

[rad lulz]

Keg is making a joke bc she knows how much time I spend in certain offices.

[rad lulz]

Had a research assignment where I completely dropped the ball. Assigning atty went to court and basically was blindsided. I feel shitty. I take full responsibility and I don't know I would have gotten a different answer if I did it whole thing over. Opposing attorney is sleazy and tried a tactic that neither I nor the assigning attorney even thought about. How bad is this for me?

How did you drop the ball?

[ruski]

I don't have a secretary and I don't need one.

Also if she is a rainmaker's long tine secretary, then yes, she is more important than some know-nothing, overcompensated 2L who reappears occasionally to get free lunches and vomit out shit pure shit memoranda.

OP mentioned this, but several times assigning associates and partners will TELL you to give this to your secretary. i was in a very similar situation to OP. I was given a secretary that was also working for a top partner. i didn't expect to give her any work, but parts of my assignments were really low level stuff (like making labels for a deal closing) and an assigning attorney explicitly said to give it to my secretary b/c he wanted me to do more pressing things on the matter (deal was closing next day). you don't really have a choice here. i gave her the work, and she gave me attitude. this happened once or twice more during the summer. sometimes the partner would only 'recommend' i give it to my secretary. i still gave it to her. what would i tell my partner if it somehow came up i actually did it instead - 'oh my bad, i decided to do it myself in the end even though we both knew i was swamped b/c i was too much of a pussy to give it to my secretary, even though this is what shes hired to do.' i tried to be polite as possible and told her this was for another partner but she didn't really care. oh well

i still got an offer. OP just be as cordial and nice as possible. keep your cool. people know there are some weird social dynamics w/ secretaries and summer associates, but they assign them to you for a reason so you get used to working with them. not a big deal if this is your only issue during the summer

These are the situations where you say, "Hey, Partner X asked me to have you do this for me, do you have time?" I suspect much of the pushback people are getting from secretaries is because of how these requests are being phrased.

yea dude can you read? that's what i told her. they dont really care. at the end of the day shes still getting the assignment from me, not the partner, and some 40 year old grown woman is not gonna like it.

[r6_philly]

yea dude can you read? that's what i told her. they dont really care. at the end of the day shes still getting the assignment from me, not the partner, and some 40 year old grown woman is not gonna like it.

It's possible that such a person just has a bad attitude anyway, don't take it too personally. They are your support stuff, if the assignment is legit, then assign it. If it becomes a problem (like the person refuse to finish it) then talk to your supervisor. Otherwise, just let people have their attitudes.

[keg411]

Also, keg, I'm working this wknd bc I go slammed on Thursday and Friday and I rotate out of this group next week. Gotta get it all done.

Yeah, that makes a ton of sense. We don't have rotations, so I wouldn't have even though of that.

[blurbz]

Well, I think I'll have to stay late a few nights this week.

I got a few projects at the end of last week that I was planning on working on all week but I got a couple of emails today from a senior associate I've done a few things for saying that she's got three more projects for me, two of which are extremely time-sensitive. I guess I'm glad that she keeps coming back to me, though!

Just with all the training stuff we do as summers at my firm, and all the time I'll spend at lunch and other events, I'm going to have to put in some long days to meet all of these deadlines. Part of me is looking forward to it....

[fl0w]

yea dude can you read? that's what i told her. they dont really care. at the end of the day shes still getting the assignment from me, not the partner, and some 40 year old grown woman is not gonna like it.

Take her out to a nice seafood dinner, and never call her again.

[Anonymous User]

I'm a clerk at a midlaw firm this summer, and I have a few gripes. Are these legitimate, and are they an issue at biglaw firms too (either as an SA or an associate)?

1. I'm paid hourly (clock-in/clock-out), and we're expected to be billing every minute that we are clocked in--all 8 hours in a day. Aside from the ethical concerns of such a policy, this makes for a very stressful day; I need to be very mindful even about the time I spend just going to the bathroom. I would be happy to bill 8 hours a day if I could do it in 10 hours, but this 1:1 ratio thing is seriously stressful, and forces you to make what I think are dubious billing decisions. What's is the ratio of time-in-office v. billing time for most biglaw SAs on here?

2. We each have a supervising attorney, but both myself and a few of the other clerks aren't getting enough work from our supervising attorneys to keep us busy the whole day. We've been told to branch out to other attorneys to get work when this happens, but none of the other attorneys are really interested in trying to give assignments to us. With this 1:1 billing ratio policy, I find myself literally going around to each attorney's office begging for assignments; it both annoys the attorneys and embarrasses me. We were also told in orientation that being short on assignments is an indication that people don't want you to do work for them, and will thus be viewed negatively in our evaluations, which of course adds significantly to the anxiety of not having an assignment. I know some biglaw firms have a free-market system, but are SAs/associates scrounging/begging for work like this too?

3. We've been told more or less outright that only 1 clerk (out of 4) will be considered for a full time associate position after law school. While I don't think it's wrong for them to want you to prove your worth during the summer before making an offer to you, this is turning this summer into some serious Hunger Games shit. Moreover, offers aren't made until after we find out bar results, so basically 3 of us will have flushed our 2L summer and 3L post-bar-exam/pre-bar-results time down the drain. (It also puts the firm in a far superior bargaining position when it comes to salary because they know that you just have to take what they offer you, as you won't be able to get anything else by then.) While I know the biglaw SA hiring model is different, is there this same type of atmosphere as either an SA or an associate--i.e. where you are competing against each other just to stay alive? This seems very antithetical to team-building.

4. We bill almost exclusively to insurance companies, who I'm told are notoriously stingy when paying for legal work. As a result, I'm given what seems to be some ridiculous time limits on my assignments--1 hour for researching the law, 2 hours to draft a motion from scratch. I'm panicking the whole time because I know there's no way I'm going to produce anything of decent quality in that kind of time limit. This exacerbates problem #1 too, since each assignment I do is like being in a fucking final exam, for the entire day. Are time limits on assignments more generous in biglaw?