What exactly does a junior M&A attorney do?

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somewhatwayward
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Re: What exactly does a junior M&A attorney do?

Postby somewhatwayward » Sat May 12, 2012 4:16 pm

ruski wrote:...also not everyone is interested in the corporate/business type exit ops. many people have other plans. so yea don't worry about trying to get placed into it. it's MUCH harder to get into a smaller groups like RE or tax since they just cant afford to absorb so many bodies. but m&a depts are huge and have really high turnover - its also the generic group for anyone unsure/ambivalent; i.e. if you dont really gun for a small group like IP or bankruptcy, they'll just put you in the securities or m&a usually.


does what you do as an SA determine what you will do as an associate practice-group-wise? based on what i've read in this thread, i don't think i selected very smartly when my firm asked us to rank the different areas for this summer.

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Detrox
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Re: What exactly does a junior M&A attorney do?

Postby Detrox » Sat May 12, 2012 4:56 pm

somewhatwayward wrote:
ruski wrote:...also not everyone is interested in the corporate/business type exit ops. many people have other plans. so yea don't worry about trying to get placed into it. it's MUCH harder to get into a smaller groups like RE or tax since they just cant afford to absorb so many bodies. but m&a depts are huge and have really high turnover - its also the generic group for anyone unsure/ambivalent; i.e. if you dont really gun for a small group like IP or bankruptcy, they'll just put you in the securities or m&a usually.


does what you do as an SA determine what you will do as an associate practice-group-wise? based on what i've read in this thread, i don't think i selected very smartly when my firm asked us to rank the different areas for this summer.


This is something to ask your firm, as it generally depends. Some firms have you choose your practice group when they give you your offer, some have you rotate through until you find your preference, others will generally pressure you more towards certain groups if there is a firm need for people in that area. Short answer: it depends, but your SA work is unlikely to lock you into a certain group unless you want it to.

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Re: What exactly does a junior M&A attorney do?

Postby keg411 » Sat May 12, 2012 5:12 pm

somewhatwayward wrote:
ruski wrote:...also not everyone is interested in the corporate/business type exit ops. many people have other plans. so yea don't worry about trying to get placed into it. it's MUCH harder to get into a smaller groups like RE or tax since they just cant afford to absorb so many bodies. but m&a depts are huge and have really high turnover - its also the generic group for anyone unsure/ambivalent; i.e. if you dont really gun for a small group like IP or bankruptcy, they'll just put you in the securities or m&a usually.


does what you do as an SA determine what you will do as an associate practice-group-wise? based on what i've read in this thread, i don't think i selected very smartly when my firm asked us to rank the different areas for this summer.


I filled out something similar where we had to rank practice groups, but it specified that it was only for our first assignment and we could always switch if we wanted to do something else.

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Borg
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Re: What exactly does a junior M&A attorney do?

Postby Borg » Sat May 12, 2012 5:48 pm

Magnificent wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Magnificent wrote:
or you could finish top of your class at an elite law school and get a job at a lit boutique like Susman/Bartlit Beck/etc. and be taking depositions on your own as a first year, arguing motions in court, and writing entire briefs on your own which are filed directly to the court with very little partner oversight

I think working at a top shelf lit boutique is the much better than any other private sector job in law for a young associate.


Lol. Are you a 0L? A couple things. It's unlikely that you would ever be a 1st year at a lit boutique - generally you'd becoming off of at least 1 clerkship (thus 2d year). It's also extraordinarily unlikely that the motions you are arguing are dispositive. And, it's extraordinarily unlikely you would be filing unsupervised briefs. More importantly, if you are smart enough to finish at the top of your class, you are smart enough to know that you need oversight when learning. FYI - clients aren't dumb, if they hired any firm for bet the company litigation, they are certainly not going to allow 1st year associates to file briefs "on their own."


No I'm not a 0L talking out of my ass. I already have SA experience at a boutique where I saw/heard about all the stuff I mentioned. Your right that most people who are hired at the place as a first year associate already have clerking experience. Sure the motions you argue are not dispositive but its alot better than never getting to see the inside of a court room which is the norm at any big firm.

And I never said that briefs were "unsupervised". All I said is there was "very little partner oversight." Which means that your not writing a small section of a brief that is being edited and looked over by 10 other associates before it gets to the lead partner. At boutiques like the one I worked at, the junior associate usually writes the brief on their own and one partner oversees it just to make sure its adequate. Usually the partner doesn't have very many edits and the brief is filed in court almost exactly the same as the associate had it when he turned it into the partner.


The bold parts make me wonder what firm you worked at and how well you did there.

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Borg
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Re: What exactly does a junior M&A attorney do?

Postby Borg » Sat May 12, 2012 5:54 pm

ruski wrote:the best ones will go to the people coming from the nyc m&a powerhouses - think wachtell, s&c cravath, simpson, davis polk, maybe a few others i'm missing. but even m&a from like shearman or other v20 is still enough to set you up with some sweet exit ops. obv it gets worse as you go down, but by how much i can't really say. i would think at the point where the firm starts to specialize in deals that are significantly smaller, enough to be considered mid-market; but even then you can counter that these associates actually got more substantive experience working on smaller deals. but its still better to come from one of the elite firms. im sure chambers will have a pretty accurate ranking. something like exit opps is always hard to quantify, and there will always be outliers


I agree with this in general, but to elaborate on this point I don't think banks care so much about the name brand of the firm as much as they care about the deals you worked on and, more importantly, what level of responsibility you had on them. Most bankers aren't even that familiar with firms, so they aren't going to give a shit when you proudly say "I worked at Skadden" if you were the 10th associate on each deal and were just checking for typos. Also, you REALLY need to show that you understand the business considerations in these deals and not just the contract issues. You should try to get at least some understanding of how to do a discounted cash flow, find comparable transactions etc. Banking and law are sort of related, but fundamentally different. If you don't have the requisite skills or at least a strong ability to acquire them, you're not jumping ship.

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dingbat
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Re: What exactly does a junior M&A attorney do?

Postby dingbat » Sat May 12, 2012 7:40 pm

Borg wrote: Most bankers aren't even that familiar with firms

Oh yes they are.
Or, more precisely, they know which are tops for the type of work they need
No, a bank won't no shit about litigation firms, but an MD responsible for distressed debt will know which firms are best for that type of work.
Bankers rely on law firms in many ways. They know who's tops in their field.

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Borg
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Re: What exactly does a junior M&A attorney do?

Postby Borg » Sat May 12, 2012 7:57 pm

dingbat wrote:
Borg wrote: Most bankers aren't even that familiar with firms

Oh yes they are.
Or, more precisely, they know which are tops for the type of work they need
No, a bank won't no shit about litigation firms, but an MD responsible for distressed debt will know which firms are best for that type of work.
Bankers rely on law firms in many ways. They know who's tops in their field.


I'm not saying they don't know who to go for in terms of the work they want done. What I mean is that they generally won't care much where your firm is in the Vault 100. If you're trying to transition, they will care much more what kind of work you've done, whether you've been good at it, and most importantly whether they think you will make a good banker and can do the quantitative work required in that industry. Obviously you should go to a firm that does major M&A deals if this is your end goal, but it's not going to matter much whether that firm is Davis Polk, Freshfields, Vinson & Elkins, Shearman & Sterling, or any other firm of comparable scale and deal size. What's really important is that you get to a point where you've actually gained applicable skills and can run a deal. If you think the name on the resume is going to be your ticket in, you're sorely mistaken.

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dingbat
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Re: What exactly does a junior M&A attorney do?

Postby dingbat » Sat May 12, 2012 8:02 pm

Borg wrote:, or any other firm of comparable scale and deal size.

Magnificent
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Re: What exactly does a junior M&A attorney do?

Postby Magnificent » Sat May 12, 2012 8:10 pm

Borg wrote:
Magnificent wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Magnificent wrote:
or you could finish top of your class at an elite law school and get a job at a lit boutique like Susman/Bartlit Beck/etc. and be taking depositions on your own as a first year, arguing motions in court, and writing entire briefs on your own which are filed directly to the court with very little partner oversight

I think working at a top shelf lit boutique is the much better than any other private sector job in law for a young associate.


Lol. Are you a 0L? A couple things. It's unlikely that you would ever be a 1st year at a lit boutique - generally you'd becoming off of at least 1 clerkship (thus 2d year). It's also extraordinarily unlikely that the motions you are arguing are dispositive. And, it's extraordinarily unlikely you would be filing unsupervised briefs. More importantly, if you are smart enough to finish at the top of your class, you are smart enough to know that you need oversight when learning. FYI - clients aren't dumb, if they hired any firm for bet the company litigation, they are certainly not going to allow 1st year associates to file briefs "on their own."


No I'm not a 0L talking out of my ass. I already have SA experience at a boutique where I saw/heard about all the stuff I mentioned. Your right that most people who are hired at the place as a first year associate already have clerking experience. Sure the motions you argue are not dispositive but its alot better than never getting to see the inside of a court room which is the norm at any big firm.

And I never said that briefs were "unsupervised". All I said is there was "very little partner oversight." Which means that your not writing a small section of a brief that is being edited and looked over by 10 other associates before it gets to the lead partner. At boutiques like the one I worked at, the junior associate usually writes the brief on their own and one partner oversees it just to make sure its adequate. Usually the partner doesn't have very many edits and the brief is filed in court almost exactly the same as the associate had it when he turned it into the partner.


The bold parts make me wonder what firm you worked at and how well you did there.


yeah cause I give a fukk bout grammar on the internet

ruski
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Re: What exactly does a junior M&A attorney do?

Postby ruski » Sun May 13, 2012 10:43 am

Borg wrote:
dingbat wrote:
Borg wrote: Most bankers aren't even that familiar with firms

Oh yes they are.
Or, more precisely, they know which are tops for the type of work they need
No, a bank won't no shit about litigation firms, but an MD responsible for distressed debt will know which firms are best for that type of work.
Bankers rely on law firms in many ways. They know who's tops in their field.


I'm not saying they don't know who to go for in terms of the work they want done. What I mean is that they generally won't care much where your firm is in the Vault 100. If you're trying to transition, they will care much more what kind of work you've done, whether you've been good at it, and most importantly whether they think you will make a good banker and can do the quantitative work required in that industry. Obviously you should go to a firm that does major M&A deals if this is your end goal, but it's not going to matter much whether that firm is Davis Polk, Freshfields, Vinson & Elkins, Shearman & Sterling, or any other firm of comparable scale and deal size. What's really important is that you get to a point where you've actually gained applicable skills and can run a deal. If you think the name on the resume is going to be your ticket in, you're sorely mistaken.


dude it will definitely matter whether you're coming from davis polk or vinson and elkins. i have a lot of banker friends, and the only law firms they can list are the v5(ish) because these are the ones they continually do business with. you are underestimating the value of a brand name. if my goal was to lateral into business i would much rather be at a place like skadden (maybe slightly better than the 10th guy doing typo checks) than a junior m&a associate with more substantive experience from vinson and elkins. you can always spin your experience. a lot of bankers dont know exactly what lawyers do so its just a matter of selling yourself. at the end of the day, the skadden associate will have a much easier time selling himself, regardless how his experience compares to the vinson and elkins guy.

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Re: What exactly does a junior M&A attorney do?

Postby dougroberts » Sun May 13, 2012 11:29 am

    Last edited by dougroberts on Sun May 13, 2012 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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    Borg
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    Re: What exactly does a junior M&A attorney do?

    Postby Borg » Sun May 13, 2012 11:33 am

    ruski wrote:
    Borg wrote:
    dingbat wrote:
    Borg wrote: Most bankers aren't even that familiar with firms

    Oh yes they are.
    Or, more precisely, they know which are tops for the type of work they need
    No, a bank won't no shit about litigation firms, but an MD responsible for distressed debt will know which firms are best for that type of work.
    Bankers rely on law firms in many ways. They know who's tops in their field.


    I'm not saying they don't know who to go for in terms of the work they want done. What I mean is that they generally won't care much where your firm is in the Vault 100. If you're trying to transition, they will care much more what kind of work you've done, whether you've been good at it, and most importantly whether they think you will make a good banker and can do the quantitative work required in that industry. Obviously you should go to a firm that does major M&A deals if this is your end goal, but it's not going to matter much whether that firm is Davis Polk, Freshfields, Vinson & Elkins, Shearman & Sterling, or any other firm of comparable scale and deal size. What's really important is that you get to a point where you've actually gained applicable skills and can run a deal. If you think the name on the resume is going to be your ticket in, you're sorely mistaken.


    dude it will definitely matter whether you're coming from davis polk or vinson and elkins. i have a lot of banker friends, and the only law firms they can list are the v5(ish) because these are the ones they continually do business with. you are underestimating the value of a brand name. if my goal was to lateral into business i would much rather be at a place like skadden (maybe slightly better than the 10th guy doing typo checks) than a junior m&a associate with more substantive experience from vinson and elkins. you can always spin your experience. a lot of bankers dont know exactly what lawyers do so its just a matter of selling yourself. at the end of the day, the skadden associate will have a much easier time selling himself, regardless how his experience compares to the vinson and elkins guy.


    And I know people from Cravath who have had a ton of trouble trying to jump to investment banking. I also know that there are former lawyers at the bank I'm working at this summer who come from a really wide range of large law firms, and my direct supervisor was at O'Melveny and Meyers before. Banks are going to look at representative transactions when they review your resume, and these firms all interact with financial institutions every day and work on very large transactions that are very similar when you get down to it. Goldman might have more people who have heard of S&C, but if someone from V&E seems like he would make a better banker based on interviews, he will get the job. Ultimately, any lawyer has a lot to prove anyway because understanding deal docs doesn't mean you know anything about the finance side.

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    Re: What exactly does a junior M&A attorney do?

    Postby ruski » Sun May 13, 2012 11:46 am

    Borg wrote:
    And I know people from Cravath who have had a ton of trouble trying to jump to investment banking.


    yea im not gonna argue with you on this. but out of the ones who do make it into banking there are more coming from cravath than other firms.

    Borg wrote:
    I also know that there are former lawyers at the bank I'm working at this summer who come from a really wide range of large law firms, and my direct supervisor was at O'Melveny and Meyers before.


    is this in the legal department, or on the business side because again i think it does make a difference.

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    Re: What exactly does a junior M&A attorney do?

    Postby dingbat » Sun May 13, 2012 12:00 pm

    ruski wrote:
    Borg wrote:
    And I know people from Cravath who have had a ton of trouble trying to jump to investment banking.


    yea im not gonna argue with you on this. but out of the ones who do make it into banking there are more coming from cravath than other firms.

    Borg wrote:
    I also know that there are former lawyers at the bank I'm working at this summer who come from a really wide range of large law firms, and my direct supervisor was at O'Melveny and Meyers before.


    is this in the legal department, or on the business side because again i think it does make a difference.

    equally importantly, did they work closely with said bank before working there?
    I know several people who have jumped as a result of work they've done together

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    Re: What exactly does a junior M&A attorney do?

    Postby Borg » Sun May 13, 2012 12:04 pm

    ruski wrote:
    Borg wrote:
    And I know people from Cravath who have had a ton of trouble trying to jump to investment banking.


    yea im not gonna argue with you on this. but out of the ones who do make it into banking there are more coming from cravath than other firms.

    Borg wrote:
    I also know that there are former lawyers at the bank I'm working at this summer who come from a really wide range of large law firms, and my direct supervisor was at O'Melveny and Meyers before.


    is this in the legal department, or on the business side because again i think it does make a difference.


    Business side, obviously. I just browsed the senior leadership section of my bank with a ctrl+f for J.D. We have a lot of M.D.'s with legal backgrounds. Some came from V10 firms, but we have significantly more people who came from Stroock, O'Melveny, V&E, White & Case, Kramer Levin, and a lot of other firms that are outside the top of the Vault list. I think that brand name is important insofar as these are the firms associated with major transactions, but banks don't slice and dice the Vault rankings like law students do. They are looking for something different than what law firms are looking for, so Vault isn't necessarily a good proxy.

    I don't want to out myself so I'm not going to mention the bank I'm at, but in case you are curious it is a bulge bracket/elite boutique in NY.

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    Re: What exactly does a junior M&A attorney do?

    Postby ruski » Sun May 13, 2012 3:20 pm

    that is interesting, and has been contrary to my personal experience. all the people i know who jumped did it from a v10. i know a few people from v100 who jumped, but they got their mba after practicing law so that doesn't really count. i am assuming the MDs you listed from strook, etc. didn't go get their mba (or alternatively didn't do a joint jd/mba)

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    Borg
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    Re: What exactly does a junior M&A attorney do?

    Postby Borg » Sun May 13, 2012 6:38 pm

    ruski wrote:that is interesting, and has been contrary to my personal experience. all the people i know who jumped did it from a v10. i know a few people from v100 who jumped, but they got their mba after practicing law so that doesn't really count. i am assuming the MDs you listed from strook, etc. didn't go get their mba (or alternatively didn't do a joint jd/mba)


    No, these are people who just went to law school. All the ones with combined degrees I think just went straight into banking. When you get down to it, the world just isn't as linear as law school/U.S. News would make it seem.

    Also, while we are on the subject I think a lot of lawyers who want to be bankers should just try to recruit for that on their own instead of firms. Do a weekend session on valuing a firm with Training the Street or someone similar, get your resume in order, and go give it a shot.

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    Re: What exactly does a junior M&A attorney do?

    Postby Anonymous User » Thu May 17, 2012 10:03 pm

    On a related note, if you are coming from a lower T-14, which requires a higher gpa - transactional or litigation?

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    Re: What exactly does a junior M&A attorney do?

    Postby imchuckbass58 » Thu May 17, 2012 10:52 pm

    Anonymous User wrote:On a related note, if you are coming from a lower T-14, which requires a higher gpa - transactional or litigation?


    There's not really a distinction assuming it's at the same firm. Grade distinctions are usually made firmwide, not based on practice.

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    Re: What exactly does a junior M&A attorney do?

    Postby drbarry987 » Fri May 18, 2012 2:06 pm

    Isn't it sometimes dependent on the economy? LIke some years easier to get corp (ie last year Cravath only did 3L OCI for corp) and other years when deal flow is slower, it's easier to get lit?

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    Re: What exactly does a junior M&A attorney do?

    Postby RVP11 » Fri May 18, 2012 3:43 pm

    Yeah, bro: go to V10 instead of V100 because it gives you a slightly better chance of becoming a banker.

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    Re: What exactly does a junior M&A attorney do?

    Postby Anonymous User » Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:40 am

    I'd like to get this thread going again, so would any new junior M&A associates like to talk about their experience?

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    Re: What exactly does a junior M&A attorney do?

    Postby Anonymous User » Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:21 am

    Kochel wrote:If my company chooses your firm to represent us in a M&A transaction, I will be calling you, as the junior associate, to make sure that your diligence reviews are on-time and in conformity with my company's templates. I will call you at all hours to ask specific questions about individual agreements, and will be annoyed when your knowledge of the contract is only superficial or if you didn't flag the right terms. The diligence will of course need to have been done yesterday, as knowledge about the target's contracts and structure will influence our pricing models. I also won't be shy of calling the senior associate or junior partner to complain about your dilatory diligence reviews.

    I'll also need you to familiarize yourself with my company's organizational structure so that you can help us build out the corporate structure for the deal. (Actually, it will be the tax lawyers who primarily drive the structuring, but at least you'll get to draw the flow charts.) That will involve forming new Holdcos and Newcos and running the Delaware filing processes. It may or may not involve you actually getting to meet any of my company's executives or really understanding our business model, but at least you'll get to know the formal legal structures.

    I'll be calling the partners, not you, with substantive questions about Delaware law, the target's regulatory landscape, securities laws, etc. Maybe, if my questions are tough enough, you'll be asked to bird-dog the relevant SEC no-action letter. But I'll be annoyed if that work delays your diligence output; the partners will be annoyed if your research memo isn't done by yesterday because I'll be badgering them for answers as well.

    When it comes to the actual deal docs, you may, if you're lucky, get to collate the partners' comments and turn drafts overnight after they've gone home. I won't be particularly interested in your own comments, though I will want typos to be caught. What you will definitely be in charge of is the disclosure schedules. Their accuracy and completeness will depend on how good a job you've done on diligence. There will be dozens of such schedules and you'll need to know them cold. Shouldn't be a big deal, though; they're just lists of contracts and dates and employee numbers.

    Your finest hour will be running the closing. This will mean painstakingly ensuring that each of the myriad signatures is obtained (and not lost!). It will also mean getting yelled at from all directions about why the stupid deal hasn't closed yet, has the wire cleared yet, etc. Your crowning work product--produced after all the other attorneys have moved on to the next deal--will be the closing binders. Which had better be complete.

    And I'm just the client.


    I'm a junior associate at a V10 in a really busy M&A group right now and I think you've posted the most accurate description of the job I've ever read on this site. At my firm it's not always as bad as the above, but every single deal (especially if you're working for a demanding client and/or the deal is being run on an impossible timeline) has the potential to turn into the hell that is written above. The only thing missing from the above is how unpredictable it all is. One week could be like the above, the next week could be absolutely no work. I've gone days without billing anything only to have gotten random friday calls that results in a 35+ billed hour weekend, dealing with the above bullshit. Being a junior sucks, they don't pay you 160k a year for nothing...

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    dingbat
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    Re: What exactly does a junior M&A attorney do?

    Postby dingbat » Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:46 am

    Anonymous User wrote:I'm a junior associate at a V10 in a really busy M&A group right now and I think you've posted the most accurate description of the job I've ever read on this site. At my firm it's not always as bad as the above, but every single deal (especially if you're working for a demanding client and/or the deal is being run on an impossible timeline) has the potential to turn into the hell that is written above. The only thing missing from the above is how unpredictable it all is. One week could be like the above, the next week could be absolutely no work. I've gone days without billing anything only to have gotten random friday calls that results in a 35+ billed hour weekend, dealing with the above bullshit. Being a junior sucks, they don't pay you 160k a year for nothing...

    Do you need to constantly be in the office when there's no work, or can you stroll in late, take a long lunch, and leave early? (not in your first week, of course)

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    Re: What exactly does a junior M&A attorney do?

    Postby Anonymous User » Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:48 am

    Anonymous User wrote:
    Kochel wrote:If my company chooses your firm to represent us in a M&A transaction, I will be calling you, as the junior associate, to make sure that your diligence reviews are on-time and in conformity with my company's templates. I will call you at all hours to ask specific questions about individual agreements, and will be annoyed when your knowledge of the contract is only superficial or if you didn't flag the right terms. The diligence will of course need to have been done yesterday, as knowledge about the target's contracts and structure will influence our pricing models. I also won't be shy of calling the senior associate or junior partner to complain about your dilatory diligence reviews.

    I'll also need you to familiarize yourself with my company's organizational structure so that you can help us build out the corporate structure for the deal. (Actually, it will be the tax lawyers who primarily drive the structuring, but at least you'll get to draw the flow charts.) That will involve forming new Holdcos and Newcos and running the Delaware filing processes. It may or may not involve you actually getting to meet any of my company's executives or really understanding our business model, but at least you'll get to know the formal legal structures.

    I'll be calling the partners, not you, with substantive questions about Delaware law, the target's regulatory landscape, securities laws, etc. Maybe, if my questions are tough enough, you'll be asked to bird-dog the relevant SEC no-action letter. But I'll be annoyed if that work delays your diligence output; the partners will be annoyed if your research memo isn't done by yesterday because I'll be badgering them for answers as well.

    When it comes to the actual deal docs, you may, if you're lucky, get to collate the partners' comments and turn drafts overnight after they've gone home. I won't be particularly interested in your own comments, though I will want typos to be caught. What you will definitely be in charge of is the disclosure schedules. Their accuracy and completeness will depend on how good a job you've done on diligence. There will be dozens of such schedules and you'll need to know them cold. Shouldn't be a big deal, though; they're just lists of contracts and dates and employee numbers.

    Your finest hour will be running the closing. This will mean painstakingly ensuring that each of the myriad signatures is obtained (and not lost!). It will also mean getting yelled at from all directions about why the stupid deal hasn't closed yet, has the wire cleared yet, etc. Your crowning work product--produced after all the other attorneys have moved on to the next deal--will be the closing binders. Which had better be complete.

    And I'm just the client.


    I'm a junior associate at a V10 in a really busy M&A group right now and I think you've posted the most accurate description of the job I've ever read on this site. At my firm it's not always as bad as the above, but every single deal (especially if you're working for a demanding client and/or the deal is being run on an impossible timeline) has the potential to turn into the hell that is written above. The only thing missing from the above is how unpredictable it all is. One week could be like the above, the next week could be absolutely no work. I've gone days without billing anything only to have gotten random friday calls that results in a 35+ billed hour weekend, dealing with the above bullshit. Being a junior sucks, they don't pay you 160k a year for nothing...


    The above seems boring, time consuming, and stressful, but is the work itself hard? Not trying to be rude or anything.




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