Bankruptcy Clerkship

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Anonymous User
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Re: Bankruptcy Clerkship

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:For current clerks -- How much of an edge does a current bankruptcy clerk seeking a second clerkship have in the application process?


Same Anon from immediately above

I can only speak from my experience. I currently have a bankruptcy clerkship and I think it was a big plus in securing another bankruptcy clerkship at a bigger court. I think it helps show a real interest in bankruptcy and a knowledge of how a bankruptcy court operates. I will add that I also had a very good rec letter from a bankruptcy prof that really helped as well.

Anonymous User
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Re: Bankruptcy Clerkship

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:08 am

Also a current bk clerk who reviewed resumes for my successor. Generally journal work didn't matter much, we looked for interest in bk/finance law and 3.5+ at a decent law school. Having externed in bk court is a plus too.

InSport
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Re: Bankruptcy Clerkship

Postby InSport » Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:21 am

I am currently a 2L at a T4-6 law school, and I discovered a strong interest in bankruptcy after taking Secured Transactions last semester (bankruptcy consumed a significant portion of the class). I am very seriously thinking about applying for a BK clerkship, but I don't want to leave SDNY. Of course, I know SDNY is very competitive, but I'm curious to receive some feedback on my chances.

Relevant info:
-GPA - 3.6+/-
-2L at T4-6 in NYC
-No journal (still kicking myself for not doing write-on), but I have strong work experience in finance and policy advocacy before law school
-Only BK-related class is Secured Transactions. I am going to take Bankruptcy Law in the fall of 3L year and another bankruptcy-related class in the spring of 3L year.
-Other info - my original plan was to do plaintiff-side consumer work, which is at least somewhat related. My two legal internships have been or will be with the following: (1) small consumer protection firm, and (2) government agency that does consumer protection and antitrust work.

Does anyone have a sense of my chances of at least landing a few interviews in SDNY? My biggest concerns are that I don't have journal experience and have not taken Bankruptcy Law yet.
Last edited by InSport on Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Anonymous User
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Re: Bankruptcy Clerkship

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:16 pm

InSport wrote:I am currently a 2L at a T4-6 law school, and I discovered a strong interest in bankruptcy after taking Secured Transactions last semester (bankruptcy consumed a significant portion of the class). I am very seriously thinking about applying for a BK clerkship, but I don't want to leave SDNY. Of course, I know SDNY is very competitive, but I'm curious to receive some feedback on my chances.

Relevant info:
-GPA - 3.6+/-
-2L at T4-6 in NYC
-No journal (still kicking myself for not doing write-on), but I have strong work experience in finance and policy advocacy before law school
-Only BK-related class is secured transactions. I am going to take Bankruptcy fall of 3L year and another bankruptcy-related class in the spring of 3L year.
-Other info - my original plan was to do plaintiff-side consumer work, which is at least somewhat related. My two legal internships have been or will be with the following: (1) small consumer protection firm, and (2) government agency that does consumer protection and antitrust work.

Does anyone have a sense of my chances of at least landing an interview in SDNY?

Pretty good.

Anonymous User
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Re: Bankruptcy Clerkship

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:13 pm

InSport wrote:I am currently a 2L at a T4-6 law school, and I discovered a strong interest in bankruptcy after taking Secured Transactions last semester (bankruptcy consumed a significant portion of the class). I am very seriously thinking about applying for a BK clerkship, but I don't want to leave SDNY. Of course, I know SDNY is very competitive, but I'm curious to receive some feedback on my chances.

Relevant info:
-GPA - 3.6+/-
-2L at T4-6 in NYC
-No journal (still kicking myself for not doing write-on), but I have strong work experience in finance and policy advocacy before law school
-Only BK-related class is Secured Transactions. I am going to take Bankruptcy Law in the fall of 3L year and another bankruptcy-related class in the spring of 3L year.
-Other info - my original plan was to do plaintiff-side consumer work, which is at least somewhat related. My two legal internships have been or will be with the following: (1) small consumer protection firm, and (2) government agency that does consumer protection and antitrust work.

Does anyone have a sense of my chances of at least landing a few interviews in SDNY? My biggest concerns are that I don't have journal experience and have not taken Bankruptcy Law yet.


I think the biggest concern is conveying your interest in bankruptcy law. Nothing in that resume leads me to think you have an interest in bankruptcy. Even though you can use a cover letter to explain your interest, I am skeptical of people who have not even taken bankruptcy in law school and say they are interested. If you are trying to get a SDNY bankruptcy clerkship then you have to realize all your competition can demonstrate an interest in bankruptcy through having done real bankruptcy work or being part of St. Johns LLM program in bankruptcy.

Anonymous User
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Re: Bankruptcy Clerkship

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:38 am

Anonymous User wrote:
InSport wrote:I am currently a 2L at a T4-6 law school, and I discovered a strong interest in bankruptcy after taking Secured Transactions last semester (bankruptcy consumed a significant portion of the class). I am very seriously thinking about applying for a BK clerkship, but I don't want to leave SDNY. Of course, I know SDNY is very competitive, but I'm curious to receive some feedback on my chances.

Relevant info:
-GPA - 3.6+/-
-2L at T4-6 in NYC
-No journal (still kicking myself for not doing write-on), but I have strong work experience in finance and policy advocacy before law school
-Only BK-related class is Secured Transactions. I am going to take Bankruptcy Law in the fall of 3L year and another bankruptcy-related class in the spring of 3L year.
-Other info - my original plan was to do plaintiff-side consumer work, which is at least somewhat related. My two legal internships have been or will be with the following: (1) small consumer protection firm, and (2) government agency that does consumer protection and antitrust work.

Does anyone have a sense of my chances of at least landing a few interviews in SDNY? My biggest concerns are that I don't have journal experience and have not taken Bankruptcy Law yet.


I think the biggest concern is conveying your interest in bankruptcy law. Nothing in that resume leads me to think you have an interest in bankruptcy. Even though you can use a cover letter to explain your interest, I am skeptical of people who have not even taken bankruptcy in law school and say they are interested. If you are trying to get a SDNY bankruptcy clerkship then you have to realize all your competition can demonstrate an interest in bankruptcy through having done real bankruptcy work or being part of St. Johns LLM program in bankruptcy.

BTW, St. Johns is obviously a TTT, but judges do think pretty highly of that program. I am a bankruptcy clerk and work with 2 people who did that bankruptcy LLM and they *really* know their shit and are fantastic to work with.

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Re: Bankruptcy Clerkship

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:20 pm

There is a lot of talk in here about the desirability of career clerks, which isn't really appropriate. SDNY federal judges (bankruptcy or district) can only have ONE career clerk, unless they had a second who was grandfathered in before the hiring standards changed a few years back. After a few years as a clerk you reach a certain employment level wherein you can no longer be hired as a regular term clerk, and thus a Judge can only hire you if they don't already have a career clerk.

The St. John's Bankrupycy LLM is looked at very favorably by SDNY Bankruptcy Judges, because if nothing else it demonstrates an actual interest and familiarity with BK. I intern for an SDNY BK Judge currently and every clerk I know here either has the St. John's LLM or an otherwise demonstrably strong pre-clerkship interest in BK.

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Bankruptcy Clerkship

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Apr 15, 2016 11:10 am

Hopefully someone answers this before my interview:

So I've loved bankruptcy since I took the class fall of my 3L Year, and I did well in that class and some other related classes (unfortunately only took Sec. Trans. pass/fail, but I felt very comfortable with it). Unfortunately, my 1L year grades weren't great, and I graduated from a T-50 school with only about a 3.37. Currently barred and clerking for a state trial court judge.

I have an interview with two Bankruptcy judges coming up soon for a term starting in only a few months. Realistically, what are my chances? Are they better because of the clerkship experience (as unrelated as it might be) and because it's so late in the game?

Anonymous User
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Re: Bankruptcy Clerkship

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Apr 15, 2016 11:17 am

Top quarter from t25 did it for me

Anonymous User
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Re: Bankruptcy Clerkship

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:58 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I seriously doubt a St. Johns LLM in bankruptcy will help with the SDNY/DDel bankruptcy judges; maybe it would help with other districts, but I doubt it. The St Johns LLM is a joke because of the school that offers it, regardless of the substance. It's a shame that, say, Chicago (they easily have the highest-powered bankruptcy faculty out there these days--at least for corporate BK--especially after having hired the guy from Columbia), doesn't do one.

I'm not sure a bankruptcy clerkship outside of SDNY/DDel would be particularly useful for anyone who isn't planning to do consumer bankruptcy. A magistrate clerkship would probably be more helpful (for skill development) for someone who isn't biglaw-bound.

I thought really hard about doing a bankruptcy clerkship in SDNY/DDel instead of an appellete clerkship. I'm going into bankruptcy at a large firm, blah blah. When I was applying for clerkships, I still wasn't sure if I was going to do litigation or bankruptcy, so I ended up sticking with appellete judges. Had I made up my mind about bankruptcy by the application deadline, I may have switched over to SDNY/DDel (or withdrawn from the clerkship market entirely). The firm noted that no clerkship--including BK clerkships in SDNY/DDel--really helps much with bankruptcy work, because so much of the important stuff is on the transactional side of things. Anything outside of SDNY/DDel would be seen as a complete waste--even, say, Judge Wedoff in Chicago.

Another thing to consider applying for: Judge Ambro in the 3rd Circuit is (I believe, though I could be wrong here) the only former bankruptcy judge on the court of appeals. He's seen as an incredible bankruptcy mind. He hires way, way in advance, though (i.e., he's probably hiring--or has already hired--for 2014-15 right now).


Everything this guy is saying is a load of s**t.

1)St. John's LLM isn't really good at getting you a firm job, but the rate of BK Clerkship is ASTRONOMICAL (the year I'm thinking of it was around 60% clerkship, 20% big firm 20% trustee and consumer stuff).

2)Of that 60%, half was SDNY/DDE. 80% of the classes are taught by judge and the vast majority of those judges are from SDNY/DDE; there is a list of Judges in those districts that keep an interview spot open for St. John's LLMs.

3)The idea that a magistrate clerkship better prepares you for reorg work than a bankruptcy clerkship has to be one of the most retarded things I've ever heard, considering there isn't a single (not one) reason you would open up the bankruptcy code in a magistrates judge's chambers...ever. All you do all day in a bankruptcy clerkship is stare at, and write on, the bankruptcy code...and its the same code you use no matter what you're kind of bankruptcy practice you do, the application just gets more intense. There are consumer chapter 11s in every single district. Granted, they're small business chapter 11 cases, but its the same chapter 11 with a timing difference (and a couple small tweaks), that GM and Enron file under.

4)No firm has ever in the history of its existence actually said that a bankruptcy clerkship doesn't help with bankruptcy work. That just defies logic and practice considering they credit your years in the clerkship toward the pay scale and give you 15-50k bonus (see Skadden, Shearman, W+C etc etc), oh, to say nothing of the fact that you're STARING AT AND MEMORIZING THE BANKRUPCTY CODE AND CASE LAW ALL DAY (see 3.).

5)Wedoff is a god, but the NDIL, in and of its self is highly regarded. Nothing is SDNY/DDE, but every major market has respect for clerks of their market. Offices in LA, SF, Dallas, Houston, Miami don't have any problem hiring clerks from their JX...the problem is the limited work/opportunities.

6)No clerkship is ever a "waste of time." Nobody has ever in the history of western jurisprudence been hurt by doing a clerkship. There is no job that you would have gotten out of law school that you cant get now that you completed a clerkship. Conversely, there are jobs you wouldn't have prayer of getting out of law school, which you are in contention for after completing a clerkship. Another thought, talk to any BK judge in the SDNY/DE/Uzbekistan, it doesn't matter, they will take a clerk who's done a previous clerkship over a guy who hasn't any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Doing a 1-year clerkship in District of Mississippi, out of a T-50 school, isn't going get to get you job in Kirkland's NY reorg group, but 100% of the time, if your stats are the same as a kid from Yale, and you didn't piss in the closet during your interview, a BK judge will take the guy who's been clerking for year; especially in SDNY/DDE where you have to hit the ground running.

7)Finally, what a callus and disgusting way to talk about the judiciary...what the f**k? You're a lawyer???

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proleteriate
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Re: Bankruptcy Clerkship

Postby proleteriate » Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I seriously doubt a St. Johns LLM in bankruptcy will help with the SDNY/DDel bankruptcy judges; maybe it would help with other districts, but I doubt it. The St Johns LLM is a joke because of the school that offers it, regardless of the substance. It's a shame that, say, Chicago (they easily have the highest-powered bankruptcy faculty out there these days--at least for corporate BK--especially after having hired the guy from Columbia), doesn't do one.

I'm not sure a bankruptcy clerkship outside of SDNY/DDel would be particularly useful for anyone who isn't planning to do consumer bankruptcy. A magistrate clerkship would probably be more helpful (for skill development) for someone who isn't biglaw-bound.

I thought really hard about doing a bankruptcy clerkship in SDNY/DDel instead of an appellete clerkship. I'm going into bankruptcy at a large firm, blah blah. When I was applying for clerkships, I still wasn't sure if I was going to do litigation or bankruptcy, so I ended up sticking with appellete judges. Had I made up my mind about bankruptcy by the application deadline, I may have switched over to SDNY/DDel (or withdrawn from the clerkship market entirely). The firm noted that no clerkship--including BK clerkships in SDNY/DDel--really helps much with bankruptcy work, because so much of the important stuff is on the transactional side of things. Anything outside of SDNY/DDel would be seen as a complete waste--even, say, Judge Wedoff in Chicago.

Another thing to consider applying for: Judge Ambro in the 3rd Circuit is (I believe, though I could be wrong here) the only former bankruptcy judge on the court of appeals. He's seen as an incredible bankruptcy mind. He hires way, way in advance, though (i.e., he's probably hiring--or has already hired--for 2014-15 right now).


Everything this guy is saying is a load of s**t.

1)St. John's LLM isn't really good at getting you a firm job, but the rate of BK Clerkship is ASTRONOMICAL (the year I'm thinking of it was around 60% clerkship, 20% big firm 20% trustee and consumer stuff).

2)Of that 60%, half was SDNY/DDE. 80% of the classes are taught by judge and the vast majority of those judges are from SDNY/DDE; there is a list of Judges in those districts that keep an interview spot open for St. John's LLMs.

3)The idea that a magistrate clerkship better prepares you for reorg work than a bankruptcy clerkship has to be one of the most retarded things I've ever heard, considering there isn't a single (not one) reason you would open up the bankruptcy code in a magistrates judge's chambers...ever. All you do all day in a bankruptcy clerkship is stare at, and write on, the bankruptcy code...and its the same code you use no matter what you're kind of bankruptcy practice you do, the application just gets more intense. There are consumer chapter 11s in every single district. Granted, they're small business chapter 11 cases, but its the same chapter 11 with a timing difference (and a couple small tweaks), that GM and Enron file under.

4)No firm has ever in the history of its existence actually said that a bankruptcy clerkship doesn't help with bankruptcy work. That just defies logic and practice considering they credit your years in the clerkship toward the pay scale and give you 15-50k bonus (see Skadden, Shearman, W+C etc etc), oh, to say nothing of the fact that you're STARING AT AND MEMORIZING THE BANKRUPCTY CODE AND CASE LAW ALL DAY (see 3.).

5)Wedoff is a god, but the NDIL, in and of its self is highly regarded. Nothing is SDNY/DDE, but every major market has respect for clerks of their market. Offices in LA, SF, Dallas, Houston, Miami don't have any problem hiring clerks from their JX...the problem is the limited work/opportunities.

6)No clerkship is ever a "waste of time." Nobody has ever in the history of western jurisprudence been hurt by doing a clerkship. There is no job that you would have gotten out of law school that you cant get now that you completed a clerkship. Conversely, there are jobs you wouldn't have prayer of getting out of law school, which you are in contention for after completing a clerkship. Another thought, talk to any BK judge in the SDNY/DE/Uzbekistan, it doesn't matter, they will take a clerk who's done a previous clerkship over a guy who hasn't any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Doing a 1-year clerkship in District of Mississippi, out of a T-50 school, isn't going get to get you job in Kirkland's NY reorg group, but 100% of the time, if your stats are the same as a kid from Yale, and you didn't piss in the closet during your interview, a BK judge will take the guy who's been clerking for year; especially in SDNY/DDE where you have to hit the ground running.

7)Finally, what a callus and disgusting way to talk about the judiciary...what the f**k? You're a lawyer???


whoa, triggered!

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mjb447
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Re: Bankruptcy Clerkship

Postby mjb447 » Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I seriously doubt a St. Johns LLM in bankruptcy will help with the SDNY/DDel bankruptcy judges; maybe it would help with other districts, but I doubt it. The St Johns LLM is a joke because of the school that offers it, regardless of the substance. It's a shame that, say, Chicago (they easily have the highest-powered bankruptcy faculty out there these days--at least for corporate BK--especially after having hired the guy from Columbia), doesn't do one.

I'm not sure a bankruptcy clerkship outside of SDNY/DDel would be particularly useful for anyone who isn't planning to do consumer bankruptcy. A magistrate clerkship would probably be more helpful (for skill development) for someone who isn't biglaw-bound.

I thought really hard about doing a bankruptcy clerkship in SDNY/DDel instead of an appellete clerkship. I'm going into bankruptcy at a large firm, blah blah. When I was applying for clerkships, I still wasn't sure if I was going to do litigation or bankruptcy, so I ended up sticking with appellete judges. Had I made up my mind about bankruptcy by the application deadline, I may have switched over to SDNY/DDel (or withdrawn from the clerkship market entirely). The firm noted that no clerkship--including BK clerkships in SDNY/DDel--really helps much with bankruptcy work, because so much of the important stuff is on the transactional side of things. Anything outside of SDNY/DDel would be seen as a complete waste--even, say, Judge Wedoff in Chicago.

Another thing to consider applying for: Judge Ambro in the 3rd Circuit is (I believe, though I could be wrong here) the only former bankruptcy judge on the court of appeals. He's seen as an incredible bankruptcy mind. He hires way, way in advance, though (i.e., he's probably hiring--or has already hired--for 2014-15 right now).


Everything this guy is saying is a load of s**t.

1)St. John's LLM isn't really good at getting you a firm job, but the rate of BK Clerkship is ASTRONOMICAL (the year I'm thinking of it was around 60% clerkship, 20% big firm 20% trustee and consumer stuff).

2)Of that 60%, half was SDNY/DDE. 80% of the classes are taught by judge and the vast majority of those judges are from SDNY/DDE; there is a list of Judges in those districts that keep an interview spot open for St. John's LLMs.

3)The idea that a magistrate clerkship better prepares you for reorg work than a bankruptcy clerkship has to be one of the most retarded things I've ever heard, considering there isn't a single (not one) reason you would open up the bankruptcy code in a magistrates judge's chambers...ever. All you do all day in a bankruptcy clerkship is stare at, and write on, the bankruptcy code...and its the same code you use no matter what you're kind of bankruptcy practice you do, the application just gets more intense. There are consumer chapter 11s in every single district. Granted, they're small business chapter 11 cases, but its the same chapter 11 with a timing difference (and a couple small tweaks), that GM and Enron file under.

4)No firm has ever in the history of its existence actually said that a bankruptcy clerkship doesn't help with bankruptcy work. That just defies logic and practice considering they credit your years in the clerkship toward the pay scale and give you 15-50k bonus (see Skadden, Shearman, W+C etc etc), oh, to say nothing of the fact that you're STARING AT AND MEMORIZING THE BANKRUPCTY CODE AND CASE LAW ALL DAY (see 3.).

5)Wedoff is a god, but the NDIL, in and of its self is highly regarded. Nothing is SDNY/DDE, but every major market has respect for clerks of their market. Offices in LA, SF, Dallas, Houston, Miami don't have any problem hiring clerks from their JX...the problem is the limited work/opportunities.

6)No clerkship is ever a "waste of time." Nobody has ever in the history of western jurisprudence been hurt by doing a clerkship. There is no job that you would have gotten out of law school that you cant get now that you completed a clerkship. Conversely, there are jobs you wouldn't have prayer of getting out of law school, which you are in contention for after completing a clerkship. Another thought, talk to any BK judge in the SDNY/DE/Uzbekistan, it doesn't matter, they will take a clerk who's done a previous clerkship over a guy who hasn't any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Doing a 1-year clerkship in District of Mississippi, out of a T-50 school, isn't going get to get you job in Kirkland's NY reorg group, but 100% of the time, if your stats are the same as a kid from Yale, and you didn't piss in the closet during your interview, a BK judge will take the guy who's been clerking for year; especially in SDNY/DDE where you have to hit the ground running.

7)Finally, what a callus and disgusting way to talk about the judiciary...what the f**k? You're a lawyer???

How much of the intervening (nearly) five years did you spend crafting this response?

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Re: Bankruptcy Clerkship

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:52 pm

Most of it. I consider it my Mona Lisa.




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