Do all of the Vault 100 firms start at 160? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Do any pay less?

[angrybird]

no

yes

[kaiser]

Pay totally varies

[thesealocust]

Almost all of them do, at least in major cities.

Williams & Connolly pays 180 with no bonuses, I believe Wachtell pays 165, and total compensation after bonuses varies wildly.

[Anonymous User]

I know Drinker Biddle (V80/90ish last checked) pays $145,000 in the DC office; however, I heard this will (or maybe already has been) be raised to $155,000. Not sure about bonuses.

[Mike12188]

I know Drinker Biddle (V80/90ish last checked) pays $145,000 in the DC office; however, I heard this will (or maybe already has been) be raised to $155,000. Not sure about bonuses.

I'm pretty sure 1st years start at 105k then move to 145k and merit-based raises after 6-month training.

[Anonymous User]

Wow, apparently Drinker has a detailed first year compensation page: --LinkRemoved--.

• Salary of $140,000 to $155,000 firmwide; salary of $105,000 during first-year associate training program
  $10,000 stipend for first-year associates prior to bar exam
  $10,000 federal judicial clerk bonus
  out-of-state entry-level associates will be reimbursed for moving costs up to $2,000
  associates at all levels are eligible to receive a business development bonus
  401(k) plan (immediate enrollment)
  4 weeks paid vacation
  competitive health and dental coverage
  flexible spending accounts
  dependent care spending account
  healthcare spending account
  life insurance
  short-term and long-term disability insurance
  domestic partner benefits
  12 weeks paid leave for birth or adoption (and an additional 14 weeks unpaid)
  payment of license applications and renewals, and dues for bar association and professional association memberships
  emergency childcare assistance
  pre-tax transportation program
  employee assistance program

[Anonymous User]

What about in NYC? What percentage of vfirms pay below market on the list?

[TLSNYC]

not sure about below, but boies schiller starts higher - 174 in NYC. I think I heard their first year bonuses were 74k.

[LawIdiot86]

What about in NYC? What percentage of vfirms pay below market on the list?

Venable, Dorsey, Reed and Holland all start at 145 in NY. Pepper starts at 125 nationwide and has a NY office.

I would imagine under 10% pay below market.

[bdubs]

Of the firms that report starting salaries to NALP, 23 firms pay below 160k in NYC (out of 124 firms reporting).

[09042014]

Pretty sure K&L Gates does 160 but not lockstep.

[Magnificent]

not sure about below, but boies schiller starts higher - 174 in NYC. I think I heard their first year bonuses were 74k.

the 74K bonus can't be right

are you sure that wasn't just to one person rather than the whole class?

[bdubs]

not sure about below, but boies schiller starts higher - 174 in NYC. I think I heard their first year bonuses were 74k.

the 74K bonus can't be right

are you sure that wasn't just to one person rather than the whole class?

Boies pays bonuses based on hours. You get paid 30% of your billings. So yes, that must have been for a given person but it might not be an outlier.

[TaipeiMort]

Perkins Coie starts at 120k.

That is 40k less than Wachtell, Susman, Keker, and Barlitt Beck's bonuses.

[Anonymous User]

What about in NYC? What percentage of vfirms pay below market on the list?

Venable, Dorsey, Reed and Holland all start at 145 in NY. Pepper starts at 125 nationwide and has a NY office.

I would imagine under 10% pay below market.

Good lord, why are firms like Holland & Knight, Drinker Biddle, and Pepper Hamilton in the Vault 100? Who are the northeastern schmucks voting for these firms every year?

[IAFG]

Perkins Coie starts at 120k.

That is 40k less than Wachtell, Susman, Keker, and Barlitt Beck's bonuses.

Wachtell is not paying $160k bonuses ITT wtf are you talking about?

I am starting to think you're a figment of DH2O's imagination, designed to push all of TLS's buttons.

[09042014]

What about in NYC? What percentage of vfirms pay below market on the list?

Venable, Dorsey, Reed and Holland all start at 145 in NY. Pepper starts at 125 nationwide and has a NY office.

I would imagine under 10% pay below market.

Good lord, why are firms like Holland & Knight, Drinker Biddle, and Pepper Hamilton in the Vault 100? Who are the northeastern schmucks voting for these firms every year?

Because 160K in NYC is equal to or worse than 145K in a lower tax, lower COL city. Even if your firm sucks, you still gotta pay 160K in NYC. That's not really true outside of NYC.

[Anonymous User]

What about in NYC? What percentage of vfirms pay below market on the list?

Venable, Dorsey, Reed and Holland all start at 145 in NY. Pepper starts at 125 nationwide and has a NY office.

I would imagine under 10% pay below market.

Good lord, why are firms like Holland & Knight, Drinker Biddle, and Pepper Hamilton in the Vault 100? Who are the northeastern schmucks voting for these firms every year?

Because 160K in NYC is equal to or worse than 145K in a lower tax, lower COL city. Even if your firm sucks, you still gotta pay 160K in NYC. That's not really true outside of NYC.

What I'm wondering is why some middling Philadelphia firms that have NYC offices (paying less than 160k) get more votes to be in the Vault 100 than firms that dominate their smaller markets in other regions of the country, pay local market, and have comparable RPL/PPP numbers.

[keg411]

What smaller market firms do you think should be in the V100 that aren't?

[thesealocust]

The V100 comes from a survey of associates. Guess where most associates are, and what firms most of them think are prestigious?

The size of the NYC legal market is staggering; it dwarfs all others.

[Anonymous User]

What smaller market firms do you think should be in the V100 that aren't?

Not really a smaller market, but in Boston: Choate is an objectively better (and more prestigious) firm than Nixon/Mintz Levin. Nutter would have a shout if they only paid 160.

I'm a bit surprised that no Wilmington-based firms make the list.

In smaller, western markets: Snell Wilmer and Holland & Hart stand out. Firms that dominate entire regions (Snell = southwest, H&H = mountain west) aren't in Vault, but mid-market Philadelphia firms that would probably be worse places to work by most metrics, and are virtually no one's first choice in OCI, are in Vault every year.

Osborn Maledon and Wheeler Trigg are superior firms (filled with superior CVs) to a huge chunk of the V100, but I suppose that could be said about nearly any elite boutique. That brings to mind one of the biggest problems with Vault. It purports to be a ranking of prestige, but dozens of the most prestigious firms are nowhere to be seen. Yet the list is inconsistent. SOME boutiquey firms make the list (Wachtell, Patterson Belknapp, Munger, W&C). Vault can't decide whether they're ranking by size or by prestige. It's effectively a "hey bro, which firms do you remember hearing about at OCI?" survey.

[PMan99]

What smaller market firms do you think should be in the V100 that aren't?

Fenwick probably

[TaipeiMort]

Perkins Coie starts at 120k.

That is 40k less than Wachtell, Susman, Keker, and Barlitt Beck's bonuses.

Wachtell is not paying $160k bonuses ITT wtf are you talking about?

I am starting to think you're a figment of DH2O's imagination, designed to push all of TLS's buttons.

Full salary bonuses have been/ are paid at all four of these firms. Wachtell's all-in bonus has been in between 50 and 70 percent ITE, but the point remains that 2nd year associates are making Perkins Coie's base.

BTW Perkins Coie is an awesome firm with great specialties like enviro and land use.

[Anonymous User]

What smaller market firms do you think should be in the V100 that aren't?

Fenwick probably

They're another one. But I think they've been in the V100 before.