Do all of the Vault 100 firms start at 160?

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Anonymous User
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Do all of the Vault 100 firms start at 160?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:56 pm

Do any pay less?

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angrybird
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Re: Do all of the Vault 100 firms start at 160?

Postby angrybird » Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:00 pm

no

yes

kaiser
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Re: Do all of the Vault 100 firms start at 160?

Postby kaiser » Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:03 pm

Pay totally varies

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thesealocust
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Re: Do all of the Vault 100 firms start at 160?

Postby thesealocust » Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:04 pm

Almost all of them do, at least in major cities.

Williams & Connolly pays 180 with no bonuses, I believe Wachtell pays 165, and total compensation after bonuses varies wildly.

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Re: Do all of the Vault 100 firms start at 160?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:08 pm

I know Drinker Biddle (V80/90ish last checked) pays $145,000 in the DC office; however, I heard this will (or maybe already has been) be raised to $155,000. Not sure about bonuses.

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Mike12188
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Re: Do all of the Vault 100 firms start at 160?

Postby Mike12188 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:28 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I know Drinker Biddle (V80/90ish last checked) pays $145,000 in the DC office; however, I heard this will (or maybe already has been) be raised to $155,000. Not sure about bonuses.


I'm pretty sure 1st years start at 105k then move to 145k and merit-based raises after 6-month training.

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Re: Do all of the Vault 100 firms start at 160?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:49 pm

Wow, apparently Drinker has a detailed first year compensation page: --LinkRemoved--.

    Salary of $140,000 to $155,000 firmwide; salary of $105,000 during first-year associate training program
    $10,000 stipend for first-year associates prior to bar exam
    $10,000 federal judicial clerk bonus
    out-of-state entry-level associates will be reimbursed for moving costs up to $2,000
    associates at all levels are eligible to receive a business development bonus
    401(k) plan (immediate enrollment)
    4 weeks paid vacation
    competitive health and dental coverage
    flexible spending accounts
    dependent care spending account
    healthcare spending account
    life insurance
    short-term and long-term disability insurance
    domestic partner benefits
    12 weeks paid leave for birth or adoption (and an additional 14 weeks unpaid)
    payment of license applications and renewals, and dues for bar association and professional association memberships
    emergency childcare assistance
    pre-tax transportation program
    employee assistance program

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Re: Do all of the Vault 100 firms start at 160?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:56 pm

What about in NYC? What percentage of vfirms pay below market on the list?

TLSNYC
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Re: Do all of the Vault 100 firms start at 160?

Postby TLSNYC » Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:58 pm

not sure about below, but boies schiller starts higher - 174 in NYC. I think I heard their first year bonuses were 74k.

LawIdiot86
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Re: Do all of the Vault 100 firms start at 160?

Postby LawIdiot86 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote:What about in NYC? What percentage of vfirms pay below market on the list?


Venable, Dorsey, Reed and Holland all start at 145 in NY. Pepper starts at 125 nationwide and has a NY office.

I would imagine under 10% pay below market.

bdubs
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Re: Do all of the Vault 100 firms start at 160?

Postby bdubs » Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:00 pm

Of the firms that report starting salaries to NALP, 23 firms pay below 160k in NYC (out of 124 firms reporting).

09042014
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Re: Do all of the Vault 100 firms start at 160?

Postby 09042014 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:05 pm

Pretty sure K&L Gates does 160 but not lockstep.

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Re: Do all of the Vault 100 firms start at 160?

Postby Magnificent » Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:17 pm

TLSNYC wrote:not sure about below, but boies schiller starts higher - 174 in NYC. I think I heard their first year bonuses were 74k.


the 74K bonus can't be right

are you sure that wasn't just to one person rather than the whole class?

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Re: Do all of the Vault 100 firms start at 160?

Postby bdubs » Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:19 pm

Magnificent wrote:
TLSNYC wrote:not sure about below, but boies schiller starts higher - 174 in NYC. I think I heard their first year bonuses were 74k.


the 74K bonus can't be right

are you sure that wasn't just to one person rather than the whole class?


Boies pays bonuses based on hours. You get paid 30% of your billings. So yes, that must have been for a given person but it might not be an outlier.

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TaipeiMort
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Re: Do all of the Vault 100 firms start at 160?

Postby TaipeiMort » Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:31 pm

Perkins Coie starts at 120k.

That is 40k less than Wachtell, Susman, Keker, and Barlitt Beck's bonuses.

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Re: Do all of the Vault 100 firms start at 160?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:56 pm

LawIdiot86 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What about in NYC? What percentage of vfirms pay below market on the list?


Venable, Dorsey, Reed and Holland all start at 145 in NY. Pepper starts at 125 nationwide and has a NY office.

I would imagine under 10% pay below market.


Good lord, why are firms like Holland & Knight, Drinker Biddle, and Pepper Hamilton in the Vault 100? Who are the northeastern schmucks voting for these firms every year?

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IAFG
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Re: Do all of the Vault 100 firms start at 160?

Postby IAFG » Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:59 pm

TaipeiMort wrote:Perkins Coie starts at 120k.

That is 40k less than Wachtell, Susman, Keker, and Barlitt Beck's bonuses.

Wachtell is not paying $160k bonuses ITT wtf are you talking about?

I am starting to think you're a figment of DH2O's imagination, designed to push all of TLS's buttons.

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Re: Do all of the Vault 100 firms start at 160?

Postby 09042014 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:01 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
LawIdiot86 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What about in NYC? What percentage of vfirms pay below market on the list?


Venable, Dorsey, Reed and Holland all start at 145 in NY. Pepper starts at 125 nationwide and has a NY office.

I would imagine under 10% pay below market.


Good lord, why are firms like Holland & Knight, Drinker Biddle, and Pepper Hamilton in the Vault 100? Who are the northeastern schmucks voting for these firms every year?


Because 160K in NYC is equal to or worse than 145K in a lower tax, lower COL city. Even if your firm sucks, you still gotta pay 160K in NYC. That's not really true outside of NYC.

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Re: Do all of the Vault 100 firms start at 160?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:43 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
LawIdiot86 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What about in NYC? What percentage of vfirms pay below market on the list?


Venable, Dorsey, Reed and Holland all start at 145 in NY. Pepper starts at 125 nationwide and has a NY office.

I would imagine under 10% pay below market.


Good lord, why are firms like Holland & Knight, Drinker Biddle, and Pepper Hamilton in the Vault 100? Who are the northeastern schmucks voting for these firms every year?


Because 160K in NYC is equal to or worse than 145K in a lower tax, lower COL city. Even if your firm sucks, you still gotta pay 160K in NYC. That's not really true outside of NYC.


What I'm wondering is why some middling Philadelphia firms that have NYC offices (paying less than 160k) get more votes to be in the Vault 100 than firms that dominate their smaller markets in other regions of the country, pay local market, and have comparable RPL/PPP numbers.

keg411
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Re: Do all of the Vault 100 firms start at 160?

Postby keg411 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:46 pm

What smaller market firms do you think should be in the V100 that aren't?

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thesealocust
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Re: Do all of the Vault 100 firms start at 160?

Postby thesealocust » Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:03 pm

The V100 comes from a survey of associates. Guess where most associates are, and what firms most of them think are prestigious?

The size of the NYC legal market is staggering; it dwarfs all others.
Last edited by thesealocust on Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Do all of the Vault 100 firms start at 160?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:06 pm

keg411 wrote:What smaller market firms do you think should be in the V100 that aren't?


Not really a smaller market, but in Boston: Choate is an objectively better (and more prestigious) firm than Nixon/Mintz Levin. Nutter would have a shout if they only paid 160.

I'm a bit surprised that no Wilmington-based firms make the list.

In smaller, western markets: Snell Wilmer and Holland & Hart stand out. Firms that dominate entire regions (Snell = southwest, H&H = mountain west) aren't in Vault, but mid-market Philadelphia firms that would probably be worse places to work by most metrics, and are virtually no one's first choice in OCI, are in Vault every year.

Osborn Maledon and Wheeler Trigg are superior firms (filled with superior CVs) to a huge chunk of the V100, but I suppose that could be said about nearly any elite boutique. That brings to mind one of the biggest problems with Vault. It purports to be a ranking of prestige, but dozens of the most prestigious firms are nowhere to be seen. Yet the list is inconsistent. SOME boutiquey firms make the list (Wachtell, Patterson Belknapp, Munger, W&C). Vault can't decide whether they're ranking by size or by prestige. It's effectively a "hey bro, which firms do you remember hearing about at OCI?" survey.

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Re: Do all of the Vault 100 firms start at 160?

Postby PMan99 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:26 pm

keg411 wrote:What smaller market firms do you think should be in the V100 that aren't?


Fenwick probably

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TaipeiMort
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Re: Do all of the Vault 100 firms start at 160?

Postby TaipeiMort » Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:34 pm

IAFG wrote:
TaipeiMort wrote:Perkins Coie starts at 120k.

That is 40k less than Wachtell, Susman, Keker, and Barlitt Beck's bonuses.

Wachtell is not paying $160k bonuses ITT wtf are you talking about?

I am starting to think you're a figment of DH2O's imagination, designed to push all of TLS's buttons.


Full salary bonuses have been/ are paid at all four of these firms. Wachtell's all-in bonus has been in between 50 and 70 percent ITE, but the point remains that 2nd year associates are making Perkins Coie's base.

BTW Perkins Coie is an awesome firm with great specialties like enviro and land use.
Last edited by TaipeiMort on Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Do all of the Vault 100 firms start at 160?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:35 pm

PMan99 wrote:
keg411 wrote:What smaller market firms do you think should be in the V100 that aren't?


Fenwick probably


They're another one. But I think they've been in the V100 before.




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