How to land a 1L SA

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beachbum
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Re: How to land a 1L SA

Postby beachbum » Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:08 pm

Honestly, if you're at a T14 and have good ties to a city/region that hires 1Ls, getting a 1L SA really doesn't seem as difficult as people here make it seem. Even without diversity or otherwise outstanding credentials, 1Ls here were doing relatively well in securing firm jobs in their home markets. Though I guess in that sense it's based a lot on luck: you've gotta be from the right place.

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Re: How to land a 1L SA

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:14 pm

There must be no single right answer to this question, because in my experience grades were everything. I'm not a URM, I'm not in the T14, I didn't mass mail on December 1. I just sent my resume with first semester grades at the end of January to the 5-6 NLJ250 firms in my secondary market, got a few callbacks, got two offers.

Caveat: I had a couple of years of unimpressive work experience before law school (not retail, but one rung above that), and I had stellar grades.

r6_philly
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Re: How to land a 1L SA

Postby r6_philly » Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:12 pm

bdubs wrote:
bk1 wrote:
bdubs wrote:1) Be URM
2) Go to T14
3) Have a decent resume and grades


I'm fairly sure even only a minority of these land 1L SA's.


It drastically increases your odds relative to a non-URM student. The number of diversity programs for 1Ls outnumbers regular 1L SA spots by at least 2 to 1 (if job postings are any indication).


No, stop using "URM", and starting using "minority." 0Ls don't need to mislead into thinking only URMs by admission standards should apply.

bdubs
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Re: How to land a 1L SA

Postby bdubs » Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:19 pm

r6_philly wrote:No, stop using "URM", and starting using "minority." 0Ls don't need to mislead into thinking only URMs by admission standards should apply.


Bad use of terminology on my part. URM for law firms is different than URM for law schools. Firms have a minority of women, non-whites, and LGBT, while law schools have a much narrower definition.

r6_philly
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Re: How to land a 1L SA

Postby r6_philly » Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:20 pm

bdubs wrote:Alternative

1) Have great WE
2) Get good grades @ T14
3) Apply early and widely


This one is tough

Alternative two

1) Have undergrad degree in desirable IP field w/ good grades in science courses
2) Do reasonably well in law school
3) Apply to patent prosecution firms


You can get IP lit in GP firms too. Don't have to focus on prosecution practices only, but go to a good school (GW and up) and have decent grades.

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Re: How to land a 1L SA

Postby r6_philly » Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:26 pm

NinerFan wrote:Aren't the 1L firm job numbers at t-14's in the 20% range? It's not THAT uncommon, but my bet is that many of those 1L firm jobs are not for traditional big law. A good number probably result from kids who apply to middle-sized and smaller law firms in their hometowns or states.


Yes, I think T10s range 10-20% usually, even ITE, this year may be better. There are regional firms, but there are also plenty that go to V100 firms. I think I know more going to V100 than not.

bdubs
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Re: How to land a 1L SA

Postby bdubs » Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:56 am

Bottom line is that there is no way to guarantee a 1L SA.

Things that will increase your chances are (in somewhat descending order):
Desirable IP degree w/good undergrad grades or grad degree
Minority status (for a law firm)
(Really) Good first semester grades
Great WE or connections
Applying in a region which has a relatively large number of 1L SAs per law student (i.e. Texas, Southern markets, some secondary Midwestern markets)

We all know someone who hustled pretty hard that had one of these and still didn't get one. Lots of people also know of an outlier who got a 1L SA despite having none of the characteristics above.

If you're a 0L, just focus on grades since they are the only one of the 4 you can control.

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Re: How to land a 1L SA

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:08 pm

From personal experience, if you have stellar grades and are in a top 10 law school you have a shot. Otherwise unless your a minority it's not worth your time.

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Re: How to land a 1L SA

Postby r6_philly » Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:17 pm

Most of the non-diversity 1L SA hiring I saw was for IP/patent (both litigation and prosecution) for people with GREAT UG grades AND good work experience (in the industry, hands on). Grad degrees are prerequisites in some fields (bio) and almost irrelevant in others (EECS). Strong law school grades help but not as important as the first two things.

0Ls should focus on grades and pay attention to the law school's location. Obviously you will have more options for SA (provided if you have one of the attributes listed above) out of Penn than UVA/Michigan purely based on the fact that there are more firms in the school's home market that will hire. Of course one should not consider 1L SA as a school selection criteria, I just want to mention that it is a factor.

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PrincetonLaw
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Re: How to land a 1L SA

Postby PrincetonLaw » Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:40 pm

chasgoose wrote:
PrincetonLaw wrote:
bdubs wrote:There are a few ways to do this.

1) Be URM
2) Go to T14
3) Have a decent resume and grades

Alternative

1) Have great WE
2) Get good grades @ T14
3) Apply early and widely

Alternative two

1) Have undergrad degree in desirable IP field w/ good grades in science courses
2) Do reasonably well in law school
3) Apply to patent prosecution firms

Alternative three

1) Be well connected to someone who can get you a 1L SA


I dont get how being a URM helps? Like literally... Do they just go based on the name on your resume or what. Aren't a lot of 1L gigs obtained through mass mailing (or connections-in which case URM wouldn't matter) so it's not like you're checking a box like on LSAC.


Most 1L SA spots that are given for diversity reasons are offered through formal diversity application processes where you have to write some sort of diversity essay for consideration.

For mass mailing applications Most schools have affinity groups for the various kinds of URM, just say you are a member on your resume even if you don't do anything. It's a surefire way that they will know. Firms know that aside from board positions (which are taken by 2L's and 3L's) most people don't do much in these organizations.


Like SEO type programs or firms have their own formal process?

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bk1
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Re: How to land a 1L SA

Postby bk1 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:45 pm

PrincetonLaw wrote:Like SEO type programs or firms have their own formal process?


Firms each have their own formal process. You can find the applications on firm websites or your school's symplicity and often your CSO will send out updates on them as well.

TheFactor
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Re: How to land a 1L SA

Postby TheFactor » Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:13 pm

have strong ties to an insular market. at my t14, 1L SAs not uncommon at all

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Doritos
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Re: How to land a 1L SA

Postby Doritos » Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:17 pm

TheFactor wrote:have strong ties to an insular market that actually hires 1Ls. at my t14, 1L SAs not uncommon at all

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Re: How to land a 1L SA

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:25 pm

I'm at a top 20. Got top grades 1st semester (4.0+). Didn't apply for anything until January. Did 4 screening interviews, 3 call backs, and ended up w/3 offers at prestigious firms. Decent WE pre-LS.

Grades, grades, grades.

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chrispronger
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Re: How to land a 1L SA

Postby chrispronger » Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:31 pm

TheFactor wrote:have strong ties to an insular market. at my t14, 1L SAs not uncommon at all


I'm pretty sure TheFactor and I go to the same school. Given how horrible TLS makes things sound, I'm surprised by how many of my friends/acquaintances have 1L SAs. Several friends locked up NY and DC SAs early in the game. Those folks had impressive pre-LS experience and/or great grades. If you've got ties to ATL, TX, OH, or NC (more than being here for 1 semester), and you've got WE and/or decent grades (>/= median), you've got a good chance at landing something. As far as URM goes, I know of 2 with diversity SA's and they had grades and/or ties to fit in one or more of the other categories. I won't say everyone who wants an SA gets one, but once you take out the folks who self-select for PI work (or other programs), the anecdotal SA success rate appears to be around 75%. There's a possibility that I hang out with gunners, but everyone can't be at the top of the class.

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Doritos
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Re: How to land a 1L SA

Postby Doritos » Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:58 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm at a top 20. Got top grades 1st semester (4.0+). Didn't apply for anything until January. Did 4 screening interviews, 3 call backs, and ended up w/3 offers at prestigious firms. Decent WE pre-LS.

Grades, grades, grades.


Just get a 4.0 first semester. Duh.

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beachbum
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Re: How to land a 1L SA

Postby beachbum » Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:02 pm

chrispronger wrote:
TheFactor wrote:have strong ties to an insular market. at my t14, 1L SAs not uncommon at all


I'm pretty sure TheFactor and I go to the same school. Given how horrible TLS makes things sound, I'm surprised by how many of my friends/acquaintances have 1L SAs. Several friends locked up NY and DC SAs early in the game. Those folks had impressive pre-LS experience and/or great grades. If you've got ties to ATL, TX, OH, or NC (more than being here for 1 semester), and you've got WE and/or decent grades (>/= median), you've got a good chance at landing something. As far as URM goes, I know of 2 with diversity SA's and they had grades and/or ties to fit in one or more of the other categories. I won't say everyone who wants an SA gets one, but once you take out the folks who self-select for PI work (or other programs), the anecdotal SA success rate appears to be around 75%. There's a possibility that I hang out with gunners, but everyone can't be at the top of the class.


Nah, my experience has been pretty much the same. Of the people I know who were gunning for 1L SAs, probably over 50% got one. Of course, almost all of these people had good ties to the right markets.

Also, I'm pretty sure all three of us go to the same school, though I doubt we hang around the same people. So it's entirely possible that our school is just fucking awesome.

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Re: How to land a 1L SA

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:05 pm

bdubs wrote:There are a few ways to do this.

1) Be URM
2) Go to T14
3) Have a decent resume and grades

Alternative

1) Have great WE
2) Get good grades @ T14
3) Apply early and widely

Alternative two

1) Have undergrad degree in desirable IP field w/ good grades in science courses
2) Do reasonably well in law school
3) Apply to patent prosecution firms

Alternative three

1) Be well connected to someone who can get you a 1L SA



I got a 1L SA:

I am bottom half.... I applied early and widely, hit up those diversity positions (hard), and have WE....I also go to a Top 35 school and know of hardly any other 1L person

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Re: How to land a 1L SA

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:17 pm

T10, black dude, work experience, great grades first semester, from middle of nowhere, got nothing though applied to over 30 diversity positions. It's hard out there for a pimp.

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Re: How to land a 1L SA

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:T10, black dude, work experience, great grades first semester, from middle of nowhere, got nothing though applied to over 30 diversity positions. It's hard out there for a pimp.


Dang, dawg...I feel like I would have been having sex in a "bed sheet" of offers if I actually had good grades...(i.e. top 25%)....I'm wondering how you didn't get anything when my grades were below median at at Top 35....You know what the say, "Hate the game, not the playa." They hating on you. Hard.

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Re: How to land a 1L SA

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:T10, black dude, work experience, great grades first semester, from middle of nowhere, got nothing though applied to over 30 diversity positions. It's hard out there for a pimp.


Dang, dawg...I feel like I would have been having sex in a "bed sheet" of offers if I actually had good grades...(i.e. top 25%)....I'm wondering how you didn't get anything when my grades were below median at at Top 35....You know what the say, "Hate the game, not the playa." They hating on you. Hard.


Yeah, it's worked out for me since though, I had more callbacks than I could go on come OCI. I ended up with a paid gig which I was happy with but these 1L jobs are capricious. That's why no one should bank on a 1L SA. I know people near the tip top of the class at my school who were struggling to find paid work as a 1L though cleaned up during 2L.

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Re: How to land a 1L SA

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:32 pm

Anonymous User wrote:T10, black dude, work experience, great grades first semester, from middle of nowhere, got nothing though applied to over 30 diversity positions. It's hard out there for a pimp.


Similarly: T14, hispanic, great grades first semester, shitty work experience, mass mailed every NYC/CA/DC/Chicago NALP firm that said they hired 1L's or hired 1L's last summer and applied to every diversity SA in those places I could find between Dec 1 and January 15.

Didn't get a single callback from that.

Anonymous User
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Re: How to land a 1L SA

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:T10, black dude, work experience, great grades first semester, from middle of nowhere, got nothing though applied to over 30 diversity positions. It's hard out there for a pimp.


Similarly: T14, hispanic, great grades first semester, shitty work experience, mass mailed every NYC/CA/DC/Chicago NALP firm that said they hired 1L's or hired 1L's last summer and applied to every diversity SA in those places I could find between Dec 1 and January 15.

Didn't get a single callback from that.


To add an alternative datapoint:

T14, Hispanic K-JD, Top 5%, snagged 1L SA in major market /w no ties, non-diversity position.

Specifically was told that if I sent an untargeted cover letter my chances would've been greatly diminished.

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Re: How to land a 1L SA

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:07 pm

white male; top 20; stellar grades; solid WE pre-LS; no connections to the firm but previously worked in DC; applied (via email) to 5 or 6 firms in DC once grades came out in January; did the call back and got the offer (V20) in Febuary.

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Re: How to land a 1L SA

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:16 pm

"Easiest" answer: crush your exams. Most people I know who managed 1L SA's had very top grades or a relevant professional degree.

I was top 5% at a T10 and got a 1L SA after the first round of exams.




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