Older student: T14 or T40?

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Which school would you choose?

UVA ($120,000 in debt; 32 years old + Phd)
13
35%
W&M (full ride + books; 32 years old + Phd)
24
65%
 
Total votes: 37

Anonymous User
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Older student: T14 or T40?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:04 pm

I posted this another thread, and someone suggested I do this to make it more visible. For those of you who have had this choice, what would you choose between attending a T40 with a named scholarship and no debt (full tuition + books) and attending a T14 with about $120,000 in debt? So the first option there's no financial pressure, but I have a less prestigious JD; the latter is some financial pressure, a better JD, but still no guarantee I will want to do big law for many years. The latter leaves open the possibility of legal academia, the former leaves open the possibility of better quality of life (prosecutor, midlaw, in house counsel) without worrying about the debt. Another factor is that my education up until this point has been very good schools (Ivy league Phd; top 25 undergrad). The laws schools in question are William & Mary and UVA. I'm an older student (32; and have a phd in history) and my choices now are basically teach high school ($45-50k per year) or follow this path. I live in VA now, and would be happy to practice in state...

[I edited the poll questions to make sure those who are voting recognize I am not K-JD, and have less time working to pay back the loan].
Last edited by Anonymous User on Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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ColtsFan88
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Re: Older student: T14 or T40?

Postby ColtsFan88 » Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:08 pm

Given your age, and the fact that you like working in VA, makes me say take the scholarahip at W&M. You are getting a JD for nearly free that is fairly marketable for the market you are looking at.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Older student: T14 or T40?

Postby CanadianWolf » Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:43 pm

The College of William & Mary at no cost is a great option if you want to remain in Virginia.

target
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Re: Older student: T14 or T40?

Postby target » Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:50 pm

any stips on W&M scholarship? If not, then I would say W&M is a great choice.

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Re: Older student: T14 or T40?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:51 pm

target wrote:any stips on W&M scholarship? If not, then I would say W&M is a great choice.


No stips. And W&M is a closer drive than UVA.

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Re: Older student: T14 or T40?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:51 pm

Prepare for age discrimination if you are looking at firm jobs.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Older student: T14 or T40?

Postby CanadianWolf » Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:53 pm

Prepare for age discrimination if you are looking for any job other than as a greeter at Wal-Mart.

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Re: Older student: T14 or T40?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Prepare for age discrimination if you are looking at firm jobs.


It's interesting you say this. This is what I feared, and I was told by placement officers at both schools that my age would be a plus. In this thread (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=143047) various people report the same thing, so I actually don't think you are right.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Older student: T14 or T40?

Postby CanadianWolf » Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:57 pm

Typically age discrimination is a concern in most industries when one is beyond age 40, therefore, a 35 or 36 year old law grad should be okay.

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pany1985
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Re: Older student: T14 or T40?

Postby pany1985 » Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:01 pm

I would assume that a little extra age is a plus in the legal field in that clients will naturally assume a certain level of experience that they won't with a baby-faced 25 year old first-year. Since experience/expertise is what clients are paying for, that would seem to be a good thing.

Age probably stops helping you once you get overly creaky and/or senile, though.

Anonymous User
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Re: Older student: T14 or T40?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Prepare for age discrimination if you are looking at firm jobs.


BS. This is a myth that is only repeated by K-JD's to make themselves feel better. I'm over 30 at a T14 and my age has only been a benefit to me. The only people for whom age is problematic is 23-24 year old K-JDs.

wired
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Re: Older student: T14 or T40?

Postby wired » Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:54 pm

W&M 2L here. PM me if you're looking for any info on the school. (Would also love to chat about your PhD.)

moose
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Re: Older student: T14 or T40?

Postby moose » Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:44 pm

I didn't exactly have this choice,...but I did turn down UVA @ sticker because I didn't think it was worth the debt. It worked out for me in the end because I subsequently got a full ride to a T10 B-school.....so that validated my decision as the right one for me. Is B-school an option for you? If you're a reasonably good test taker (GMAT is way easier than LSAT IMO) and you're interested in business I strongly suggest applying to B-school,..especially since you're 32 and probably have decent work experience.

If its strictly between UVA and W&M,....I would go UVA because a free JD from W&M will still have a large opportunity cost and a significantly lower chance of gainful employment.

wired
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Re: Older student: T14 or T40?

Postby wired » Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:50 pm

moose wrote:
If its strictly between UVA and W&M,....I would go UVA because a free JD from W&M will still have a large opportunity cost and a significantly lower chance of gainful employment.


How will it be a larger opportunity cost than UVA, other than the chance of gainful employment?

r6_philly
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Re: Older student: T14 or T40?

Postby r6_philly » Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Prepare for age discrimination if you are looking at firm jobs.


BS. This is a myth that is only repeated by K-JD's to make themselves feel better. I'm over 30 at a T14 and my age has only been a benefit to me. The only people for whom age is problematic is 23-24 year old K-JDs.


+1 age/experience has been positive for me as well.

moose
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Re: Older student: T14 or T40?

Postby moose » Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:01 pm

wired wrote:
moose wrote:
If its strictly between UVA and W&M,....I would go UVA because a free JD from W&M will still have a large opportunity cost and a significantly lower chance of gainful employment.


How will it be a larger opportunity cost than UVA, other than the chance of gainful employment?


I didn't say it would be a larger opportunity cost,.....I said it would be an opportunity cost. Meaning its not entirely free despite the scholly. So you have to weigh the added cost of UVA vs the increased job prospects. I would choose UVA.

wired
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Re: Older student: T14 or T40?

Postby wired » Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:08 pm

moose wrote:
wired wrote:
moose wrote:
If its strictly between UVA and W&M,....I would go UVA because a free JD from W&M will still have a large opportunity cost and a significantly lower chance of gainful employment.


How will it be a larger opportunity cost than UVA, other than the chance of gainful employment?


I didn't say it would be a larger opportunity cost,.....I said it would be an opportunity cost. Meaning its not entirely free despite the scholly. So you have to weigh the added cost of UVA vs the increased job prospects. I would choose UVA.


Gotcha. I read an "r" on to the end of the word large. Sorry about the misread.

For what it's worth, I disagree a bit with moose (but get his/her over all point). Given employment numbers at both schools and the cost, I think W&M has a better expected ROI than UVa over any period of time shorter than 50 years.

Anonymous User
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Re: Older student: T14 or T40?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:00 pm

I'm surprised it's 2-1 in favor of the T40, especially since TLS tends to be so in favor of T14 schools. Does anyone have thoughts on why they are advising this route: is it financial, quality of life, easier to rank well at W&M, or other?

xcountryjunkie
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Re: Older student: T14 or T40?

Postby xcountryjunkie » Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:07 pm

I'm not at all surprised that it's 2:1 for W&M. TLS goes T14 when money isn't as big of an issue as it is here. Most TLSers seem to be K-JD's who will have long paid off their school debt by the time they reach OP's age at graduation, thus making the T14 more justifiable. Taking on that much debt, when there is a free, no stip, non-TTT alternative in the preferred state makes more sense than forcing yourself into debt through your mid-40s.

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englawyer
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Re: Older student: T14 or T40?

Postby englawyer » Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:09 pm

xcountryjunkie wrote:I'm not at all surprised that it's 2:1 for W&M. TLS goes T14 when money isn't as big of an issue as it is here. Most TLSers seem to be K-JD's who will have long paid off their school debt by the time they reach OP's age at graduation, thus making the T14 more justifiable. Taking on that much debt, when there is a free, no stip, non-TTT alternative in the preferred state makes more sense than forcing yourself into debt through your mid-40s.


+1 to this. mostly for financials and OP's age

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dailygrind
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Re: Older student: T14 or T40?

Postby dailygrind » Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:19 pm

I moved your last thread for a reason.

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=170603




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