Vet with 60% Disability Rating - Impact on Gov. Hiring?

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Vet with 60% Disability Rating - Impact on Gov. Hiring?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:11 pm

I am a OIF/OEF vet currently in law school. I would love to get one of those coveted jobs at DOJ after graduating (DOJ Honors and/or AUSA eventually). I have heard that military veterans with over 50% disability get hiring preference in the federal government - does anyone have any knowledge or experience related to whether that is true of legal hiring at DOJ?

My credentials so far would make me a competitive applicant but "competitive applicants" are a dime a dozen these days.

Any insight would be very appreciated.

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Re: Vet with 60% Disability Rating - Impact on Gov. Hiring?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I am a OIF/OEF vet currently in law school. I would love to get one of those coveted jobs at DOJ after graduating (DOJ Honors and/or AUSA eventually). I have heard that military veterans with over 50% disability get hiring preference in the federal government - does anyone have any knowledge or experience related to whether that is true of legal hiring at DOJ?

My credentials so far would make me a competitive applicant but "competitive applicants" are a dime a dozen these days.

Any insight would be very appreciated.


I work for DOJ. Our division, not a small one, is hiring a grand total of one (1) attorney this year. At this point, do not get your hopes up about new openings. We are struggling to even find the funding to replace the attorneys and paralegals that have left. The chief of our section said we should treat this as the "new normal." It honestly comes down to politics. If the President continues the budget freeze and the hiring freeze for federal agencies, that pretty much shuts down BigFed as a meaningful source of employment for attorneys. There's some hope, if Obama gets reelected, and the budget picture brightens, that the freeze is lifted. If Romney gets elected, it will almost certainly not be lifted, and there could even be cuts. Not trying to be partisan or anything, I just think it's true. I also think that even if Obama is reelected, he may use an extension of the hiring freeze as a concession in further budget negotiations. The moral of the story is, it does not look good.

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Re: Vet with 60% Disability Rating - Impact on Gov. Hiring?

Postby bdubs » Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:32 pm

Forgive my ignorance, but does that mean that you're capable of 60% of what a soldier would be expected to do or capable of 60% of what a normal person would do?

They obviously can't discriminate against those with disabilities that can be accomodated, but I can't see why you would get a hiring preference because of it.

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Re: Vet with 60% Disability Rating - Impact on Gov. Hiring?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:35 pm

bdubs wrote:Forgive my ignorance, but does that mean that you're capable of 60% of what a soldier would be expected to do or capable of 60% of what a normal person would do?

They obviously can't discriminate against those with disabilities that can be accomodated, but I can't see why you would get a hiring preference because of it.


Fed govt sometimes hires on a point system. Vets, esp. disabled vets, get a big boost in points automatically when applying for federal jobs.

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Re: Vet with 60% Disability Rating - Impact on Gov. Hiring?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:40 pm

bdubs wrote:Forgive my ignorance, but does that mean that you're capable of 60% of what a soldier would be expected to do or capable of 60% of what a normal person would do?

They obviously can't discriminate against those with disabilities that can be accomodated, but I can't see why you would get a hiring preference because of it.


Honestly it means neither. The VA has a pretty convoluted system for determining the rating based on service-connected injuries. For example, it is not uncommon to have over a 50% disability rating for a combination of comparatively minor injuries (compared to missing limbs) like ringing hears, concussion-caused headaches, chronic pain in back, shoulders, knees etc. The injuries could be hardships in general without *necessarily* reducing legal productivity.

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Re: Vet with 60% Disability Rating - Impact on Gov. Hiring?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I am a OIF/OEF vet currently in law school. I would love to get one of those coveted jobs at DOJ after graduating (DOJ Honors and/or AUSA eventually). I have heard that military veterans with over 50% disability get hiring preference in the federal government - does anyone have any knowledge or experience related to whether that is true of legal hiring at DOJ?

My credentials so far would make me a competitive applicant but "competitive applicants" are a dime a dozen these days.

Any insight would be very appreciated.


I work for DOJ. Our division, not a small one, is hiring a grand total of one (1) attorney this year. At this point, do not get your hopes up about new openings. We are struggling to even find the funding to replace the attorneys and paralegals that have left. The chief of our section said we should treat this as the "new normal." It honestly comes down to politics. If the President continues the budget freeze and the hiring freeze for federal agencies, that pretty much shuts down BigFed as a meaningful source of employment for attorneys. There's some hope, if Obama gets reelected, and the budget picture brightens, that the freeze is lifted. If Romney gets elected, it will almost certainly not be lifted, and there could even be cuts. Not trying to be partisan or anything, I just think it's true. I also think that even if Obama is reelected, he may use an extension of the hiring freeze as a concession in further budget negotiations. The moral of the story is, it does not look good.


OP here. I really appreciate the (albeit depressing) insight.

I guess my fundamental question is, assuming that the hiring freeze is lifted/relaxed, what impact would the disability rating have on legal hiring at DOJ?

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Re: Vet with 60% Disability Rating - Impact on Gov. Hiring?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
bdubs wrote:Forgive my ignorance, but does that mean that you're capable of 60% of what a soldier would be expected to do or capable of 60% of what a normal person would do?

They obviously can't discriminate against those with disabilities that can be accomodated, but I can't see why you would get a hiring preference because of it.


Fed govt sometimes hires on a point system. Vets, esp. disabled vets, get a big boost in points automatically when applying for federal jobs.


So, do you know if this applies to any legal hiring at DOJ?

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TTTLS
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Re: Vet with 60% Disability Rating - Impact on Gov. Hiring?

Postby TTTLS » Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:50 pm

I saw the following job posting for the DoJ the other day. BigFed just ain't what it used to be.

--LinkRemoved--

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Re: Vet with 60% Disability Rating - Impact on Gov. Hiring?

Postby Voodoo94 » Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:33 pm

I am a OIF/OEF vet currently in law school. I would love to get one of those coveted jobs at DOJ after graduating (DOJ Honors and/or AUSA eventually). I have heard that military veterans with over 50% disability get hiring preference in the federal government - does anyone have any knowledge or experience related to whether that is true of legal hiring at DOJ?

My credentials so far would make me a competitive applicant but "competitive applicants" are a dime a dozen these days.

Any insight would be very appreciated.


Where this will make a huge difference is the Presidential Management Fellows program. Vet preference will give you a huge boost and I would almost call you a lock with the 10 point boost.

I urge you to apply to PMF at the start of your 3L year.

Vet preference is much more nebulous for excepted service attorney/0905 series positions.

Also, veterans with a 30% disability or over can apply to a host of Federal jobs closed to outsiders. Disabled veterans (30% or greater) can apply to positions that are advertised as "status candidate only" or "current agency employees only".

I would take a good, hard look at "non attorney" Federal positions in the 0301 or 0343 series. You can conduct a targeted "advanced" search by series on USAJOBS.

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Re: Vet with 60% Disability Rating - Impact on Gov. Hiring?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:37 pm

Voodoo94 wrote:
I am a OIF/OEF vet currently in law school. I would love to get one of those coveted jobs at DOJ after graduating (DOJ Honors and/or AUSA eventually). I have heard that military veterans with over 50% disability get hiring preference in the federal government - does anyone have any knowledge or experience related to whether that is true of legal hiring at DOJ?

My credentials so far would make me a competitive applicant but "competitive applicants" are a dime a dozen these days.

Any insight would be very appreciated.


Where this will make a huge difference is the Presidential Management Fellows program. Vet preference will give you a huge boost and I would almost call you a lock with the 10 point boost.

I urge you to apply to PMF at the start of your 3L year.

Vet preference is much more nebulous for excepted service attorney/0905 series positions.

Also, veterans with a 30% disability or over can apply to a host of Federal jobs closed to outsiders. Disabled veterans (30% or greater) can apply to positions that are advertised as "status candidate only" or "current agency employees only".

I would take a good, hard look at "non attorney" Federal positions in the 0301 or 0343 series. You can conduct a targeted "advanced" search by series on USAJOBS.


Yes, this is very true. Do this.

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Re: Vet with 60% Disability Rating - Impact on Gov. Hiring?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
bdubs wrote:Forgive my ignorance, but does that mean that you're capable of 60% of what a soldier would be expected to do or capable of 60% of what a normal person would do?

They obviously can't discriminate against those with disabilities that can be accomodated, but I can't see why you would get a hiring preference because of it.


Fed govt sometimes hires on a point system. Vets, esp. disabled vets, get a big boost in points automatically when applying for federal jobs.


So, do you know if this applies to any legal hiring at DOJ?


It can, but only if there is an opening. There are not a lot of openings. There are not even some openings. There are a few openings.

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Re: Vet with 60% Disability Rating - Impact on Gov. Hiring?

Postby dr123 » Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:41 pm

TTTLS wrote:I saw the following job posting for the DoJ the other day. BigFed just ain't what it used to be.

--LinkRemoved--


Salary Information: This is a one-year appointment without compensation. The selectee uncompensated SAUSA cannot be considered by this office for a permanent AUSA position with the Northern District of California for two years after the expiration of this SAUSA's one-year appointment.

WTF?

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Re: Vet with 60% Disability Rating - Impact on Gov. Hiring?

Postby NinerFan » Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:41 pm

bdubs wrote:Forgive my ignorance, but does that mean that you're capable of 60% of what a soldier would be expected to do or capable of 60% of what a normal person would do?

They obviously can't discriminate against those with disabilities that can be accomodated, but I can't see why you would get a hiring preference because of it.


Why the hiring preference? Because Vets have a higher unemployment rate than other Americans, because they've served our country, and because they've learned discipline, teamwork, and respect for authority while in the service.

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Re: Vet with 60% Disability Rating - Impact on Gov. Hiring?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:33 pm

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Last edited by Anonymous User on Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Vet with 60% Disability Rating - Impact on Gov. Hiring?

Postby bdubs » Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:37 pm

NinerFan wrote:Why the hiring preference? Because Vets have a higher unemployment rate than other Americans, because they've served our country, and because they've learned discipline, teamwork, and respect for authority while in the service.

Anonymous User wrote:Good news! You can get the same hiring preference. Just go here (http://www.marines.com/becoming-a-marine) and then come back in four years...


I didn't question hiring preference for vets. I think it's something the government has essentially promised to enlistees, so they should definitely get it. I only questioned why disability status should give anyone an extra bump.

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Re: Vet with 60% Disability Rating - Impact on Gov. Hiring?

Postby NinerFan » Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:40 pm

bdubs wrote:
NinerFan wrote:Why the hiring preference? Because Vets have a higher unemployment rate than other Americans, because they've served our country, and because they've learned discipline, teamwork, and respect for authority while in the service.

Anonymous User wrote:Good news! You can get the same hiring preference. Just go here (http://www.marines.com/becoming-a-marine) and then come back in four years...


I didn't question hiring preference for vets. I think it's something the government has essentially promised to enlistees, so they should definitely get it. I only questioned why disability status should give anyone an extra bump.


Because the only thing we respect more than serving our country is getting hurt and disable while serving our country.

I don't know the real reason why. I imagine it's because disabled vets have an even harder time finding a job that can accommodate their disability.

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Re: Vet with 60% Disability Rating - Impact on Gov. Hiring?

Postby newyorker88 » Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:02 am

Anonymous User wrote:I am a OIF/OEF vet currently in law school. I would love to get one of those coveted jobs at DOJ after graduating (DOJ Honors and/or AUSA eventually). I have heard that military veterans with over 50% disability get hiring preference in the federal government - does anyone have any knowledge or experience related to whether that is true of legal hiring at DOJ?

My credentials so far would make me a competitive applicant but "competitive applicants" are a dime a dozen these days.

Any insight would be very appreciated.


How are you disabled?

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Re: Vet with 60% Disability Rating - Impact on Gov. Hiring?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:36 am

newyorker88 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I am a OIF/OEF vet currently in law school. I would love to get one of those coveted jobs at DOJ after graduating (DOJ Honors and/or AUSA eventually). I have heard that military veterans with over 50% disability get hiring preference in the federal government - does anyone have any knowledge or experience related to whether that is true of legal hiring at DOJ?

My credentials so far would make me a competitive applicant but "competitive applicants" are a dime a dozen these days.

Any insight would be very appreciated.


How are you disabled?


Why?

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Re: Vet with 60% Disability Rating - Impact on Gov. Hiring?

Postby NoleinNY » Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:20 am

TTTLS wrote:I saw the following job posting for the DoJ the other day. BigFed just ain't what it used to be.

--LinkRemoved--


My school's symplicity had a posting for a "Term AUSA" position for the Eastern District. It pays, but it is goes out of its way to essentially say this is only for a limited work period, although it may turn into a permanent position depending on funding.

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Re: Vet with 60% Disability Rating - Impact on Gov. Hiring?

Postby TTTLS » Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:13 am

dr123 wrote:
TTTLS wrote:I saw the following job posting for the DoJ the other day. BigFed just ain't what it used to be.

--LinkRemoved--


Salary Information: This is a one-year appointment without compensation. The selectee uncompensated SAUSA cannot be considered by this office for a permanent AUSA position with the Northern District of California for two years after the expiration of this SAUSA's one-year appointment.

WTF?
Corsair stated that you can get hired in other districts, but still... WTF. A year of unpaid work without a potential secured after that? Criminal.

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Re: Vet with 60% Disability Rating - Impact on Gov. Hiring?

Postby LawIdiot86 » Fri Apr 13, 2012 8:39 am

TTTLS wrote:
dr123 wrote:
TTTLS wrote:I saw the following job posting for the DoJ the other day. BigFed just ain't what it used to be.

--LinkRemoved--


Salary Information: This is a one-year appointment without compensation. The selectee uncompensated SAUSA cannot be considered by this office for a permanent AUSA position with the Northern District of California for two years after the expiration of this SAUSA's one-year appointment.

WTF?
Corsair stated that you can get hired in other districts, but still... WTF. A year of unpaid work without a potential secured after that? Criminal.

NY Dept of Fin and NJ AG have the same deals. Ditto for the SEC and CFTC. From what I gather, these are becoming more and more common as agencies face funding shortfalls and an extreme surplus of qualified workers willing to obliterate the competition in bidding down to zero. If you're top 30% at Cardozo, you'll still undercut the median guy at Fordham and probably do the same quality of work. But, you'll lose out when the top 10% kid at Hofstra offers his work for free.

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Re: Vet with 60% Disability Rating - Impact on Gov. Hiring?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:21 pm

Due to the scarcity of hiring opportunities at the DOJ and elsewhere, it is hard to imagine that this will make a difference in the success of your application. Sure, it will help the overall impression of your application, but it will not help you surpass anyone who seems better qualified for the job due to experience, references, grades, etc. From what I've seen of internal government hiring processes lately, they just want to fill the position with the person who they think is going to do this particular job the best, who they will enjoy working, and who seems to fit in with the office/division culture. The label of veteran or disability does not weigh directly on any of those things. Of course the military experience (depending what it is, etc) may suggest that you have qualities they like or something, but that's not related to the two labels that usually equal preference.

And my impression is that each DOJ division is highly specialized, and this is part of why it's hard to imagine this making a difference. In addition to looking at general qualifications such as what school you went to, GPA, journal, research and writing skills, etc, they also want to see that you have experience and/or classes in their area of law. Well, Civil Division is general, but it only looks at people whose on-paper credentials (GPA, school, law review) are off the charts. Immigration only looks at people with experience and demonstrated commitment to this area of law, and I imagine fluency in a non-English language is required. Antitrust wants you to have taken antitrust and have some kind of antitrust and/or microeconomics background. Civil Rights division wants to see dedication to whatever subgroup you're applying for, whether it's discrimination, voting rights, etc etc.

Someone feel free to jump in and correct me if I'm wrong.

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Re: Vet with 60% Disability Rating - Impact on Gov. Hiring?

Postby Voodoo94 » Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:11 pm

Due to the scarcity of hiring opportunities at the DOJ and elsewhere, it is hard to imagine that this will make a difference in the success of your application. Sure, it will help the overall impression of your application, but it will not help you surpass anyone who seems better qualified for the job due to experience, references, grades, etc.


First, there's more to the Government than DOJ. If someone is foolish enough to limit their job search to that one agency, I don't know what to say. I don't know what the hell is going on over there with their hiring process, but it is not in synch with what I am seeing elsewhere.

Second, agencies are under tremendous pressure to increase the percentage of veterans among their employees. Many agencies are well under 15% vets and are under the gun (from the WH and OPM) to get the numbers up. EPA and USAID (among others) are below 10%. Some of this is anecdotal, but I know of agencies where hiring officials were directed to hire veterans. One agency, directed its hiring officials to make sure that all 3 of the PMFs they brought on last year were veterans. This was done with the explicit goal of getting overall veteran numbers up and to get the WH and OPM off their back.

I can't overstate the pressures on agencies. At the "VA for Vets" job fair at the DC Convention Center, agencies were hiring GS-13s and GS-14s off the street at the job fair under special hiring authorities. Many of these jobs went unfilled because of a dearth of qualified candidates. A veteran with a JD, a half way decent resume, and average interviewing skills could have walked away with a job at that fair. These were good jobs too - 0301, 0343, 0201, 1102 series jobs from a host of agencies.

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Re: Vet with 60% Disability Rating - Impact on Gov. Hiring?

Postby twenty » Sat Apr 14, 2012 5:47 pm

A disabled veteran gets a 10 point boost in MANY legal jobs, and almost all non-legal jobs (excluding special agent spots, for obvious reasons

This means that if you and another guy are posting for the same job, and you both have the same exact qualifications, but you have the 10 point disability, you will get the job before he does. However, if the posting requires two years of x-experience, and you have two years of non-x experience, you will likely not be hired.

It's not a free-job card, but it helps a lot. The exception to the 10 point preference I'm thinking of right now is AUSA.




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