Loyola Patent Fair 2012

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patentlaworbust
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Re: Loyola Patent Fair 2012

Postby patentlaworbust » Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:18 pm

Firms at PLIP only get to see your resume to determine if they want to give you a screener. Therefore, make sure your resume looks neat, polished, and highlights the experiences (particularly scientifically related ones) are highlighted. Almost every ABA school has students participating in PLIP, and you can believe some of the big firms (e.g., Jones Day, Finnegan, Fish) are going to be receiving a stack of ~500 resumes to sort through for only ~50 spots. You need to stand out.

As for bidding specifically... pay careful attention to the engineering/scientific industries that the firm requests in their descriptions. If you are an EE for example and the firm doesn't list EE among the other specific fields, don't waste your bids on that one. Also, if the firm requires you to be Patent Bar eligible and you are NOT, let common sense likewise be your guide. Thirty-two bids get used up very quickly, so use them wisely on the positions for which you have the best chance. Finally (and this should go without saying) make sure to use all thirty-two bids.

PS: Don't forget about the PLIP webcasts. They are pretty informative.

r6_philly
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Re: Loyola Patent Fair 2012

Postby r6_philly » Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:28 pm

Bosque wrote:
midwesTT wrote:i agree. anyone with experience with PLIP want to give advice re: bid strategy?


Don't bid on firms at PLIP if you are sure you can interview with them at OCI. No firm wants to interview you twice. That said, if you want to get the jump on your OCI and interview with the firm at PLIP instead, then by all means bid. But don't go in expecting to interview at both events.


Would a firm that's coming to my OCI prefer to interview me at our OCI?

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wiseowl
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Re: Loyola Patent Fair 2012

Postby wiseowl » Sat Apr 14, 2012 5:14 pm

My theory was always let the firm decide.

It's dumb in my opinion to not bid on a firm at PLIP assuming that something will happen at OCI, because that doesn't always happen. If you're at a lottery school, you could always lose out to dim-bulb classmates who bid on a patent firm without the relevant qualifications and take a bid. If you're pre-select, sure, you might be tailor-made for them, but if they've already filled their summer class from PLIP and early OCI schools like CLS/NYU, then well, you're screwed.

I had three shots at the apple with some firms. Some took me the first time around, some took me the third time around. Just let them make the call and don't shoot yourself in the foot.

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chem
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Re: Loyola Patent Fair 2012

Postby chem » Sat Apr 14, 2012 5:17 pm

For those that did PLIP last year, how did you do? How did you get the feeling others did? There wasnt really a summary or any discernable feeling I could get from last years thread, and I didnt want to wade through 51 pages to sift for gems of wisdom.

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Re: Loyola Patent Fair 2012

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 14, 2012 5:29 pm

chem wrote:For those that did PLIP last year, how did you do? How did you get the feeling others did? There wasnt really a summary or any discernable feeling I could get from last years thread, and I didnt want to wade through 51 pages to sift for gems of wisdom.
I for sure know of 3 people at my T25 (including myself) who went to PLIP - 2 of us will definitely be summering with a firm who interviewed us at the program, and I believe that is the case for the 3rd guy as well. From this school, each of us might or might not have gotten an interview with his respective firm outside of PLIP, but I'd lean towards "not."

Tech background matters, school matters, grades matter, personality matters, but each firm (and each interviewer from a single firm w/ multiple interviewers) places a different weight on each of those 4 factors.

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stratocophic
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Re: Loyola Patent Fair 2012

Postby stratocophic » Sat Apr 14, 2012 5:33 pm

wiseowl wrote:My theory was always let the firm decide.

It's dumb in my opinion to not bid on a firm at PLIP assuming that something will happen at OCI, because that doesn't always happen. If you're at a lottery school, you could always lose out to dim-bulb classmates who bid on a patent firm without the relevant qualifications and take a bid. If you're pre-select, sure, you might be tailor-made for them, but if they've already filled their summer class from PLIP and early OCI schools like CLS/NYU, then well, you're screwed.

I had three shots at the apple with some firms. Some took me the first time around, some took me the third time around. Just let them make the call and don't shoot yourself in the foot.
Yep. If you really want a firm, bid both places. If you wait until OCI, there's a pretty good chance that you'll freak out when you see threads on TLS talking about callbacks and offers going out from the firm before you even sit down in front of them.

r6_philly
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Re: Loyola Patent Fair 2012

Postby r6_philly » Sat Apr 14, 2012 5:37 pm

My OCI bidding happens after the PLIP interview schedule is released. I assume I should not bid on the same firms that already gave me a preselect at PLIP? If I don't get a callback at PLIP, would it make sense to try again at OCI? Especially for the top GP firms.

Agent
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Re: Loyola Patent Fair 2012

Postby Agent » Sat Apr 14, 2012 6:58 pm

If I had PLIP preselects and limited OCI bids, I would not burn OCI bids on the preselecting firms unless I wanted and thought I'd be competitive for a position outside the GP firm's patent group. Even then, I'd be concerned that the firm would screen me out of its OCI slots because it already had me booked for PLIP. HTH.

r6_philly wrote:My OCI bidding happens after the PLIP interview schedule is released. I assume I should not bid on the same firms that already gave me a preselect at PLIP? If I don't get a callback at PLIP, would it make sense to try again at OCI? Especially for the top GP firms.

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Re: Loyola Patent Fair 2012

Postby target » Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tech background matters, school matters, grades matter, personality matters, but each firm (and each interviewer from a single firm w/ multiple interviewers) places a different weight on each of those 4 factors.


From people's experience, what are some examples of firms that weight one factor more than others?

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Re: Loyola Patent Fair 2012

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:11 pm

target wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Tech background matters, school matters, grades matter, personality matters, but each firm (and each interviewer from a single firm w/ multiple interviewers) places a different weight on each of those 4 factors.


From people's experience, what are some examples of firms that weight one factor more than others?


From my experience at PLIP:
Kirkland, Kilpatrick, Goodwin, and K&L valued real world work experience more than grades or school. Real world as in you were an actual engineer, not some internship etc.

I second the comment above that spoke about bidding on firms you're fairly certain you'll get at OCI - do it anyway. If you're towards the top of your class you might fair better at OCI versus PLIP, where the competition (in my opinion) was much stiffer.

However, if you end up bidding and receiving interviews from the same firm for both PLIP and OCI ensure you let the firm know and ask them which they would like you to attend. Some firms get pretty pissed off if you try to interview for multiple screeners.
Obviously this was different for some, but that was my experience.

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Bosque
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Re: Loyola Patent Fair 2012

Postby Bosque » Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:19 pm

wiseowl wrote:My theory was always let the firm decide.

It's dumb in my opinion to not bid on a firm at PLIP assuming that something will happen at OCI, because that doesn't always happen. If you're at a lottery school, you could always lose out to dim-bulb classmates who bid on a patent firm without the relevant qualifications and take a bid. If you're pre-select, sure, you might be tailor-made for them, but if they've already filled their summer class from PLIP and early OCI schools like CLS/NYU, then well, you're screwed.

I had three shots at the apple with some firms. Some took me the first time around, some took me the third time around. Just let them make the call and don't shoot yourself in the foot.


I agree, I don't think I phrased my initial advice right. I guess it was really advice for OCI. If you interview with the firm at PLIP, THEN don't waste a bid on them for OCI. No firm wants to interview you twice.

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wiseowl
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Re: Loyola Patent Fair 2012

Postby wiseowl » Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:23 pm

Bosque wrote:
wiseowl wrote:My theory was always let the firm decide.

It's dumb in my opinion to not bid on a firm at PLIP assuming that something will happen at OCI, because that doesn't always happen. If you're at a lottery school, you could always lose out to dim-bulb classmates who bid on a patent firm without the relevant qualifications and take a bid. If you're pre-select, sure, you might be tailor-made for them, but if they've already filled their summer class from PLIP and early OCI schools like CLS/NYU, then well, you're screwed.

I had three shots at the apple with some firms. Some took me the first time around, some took me the third time around. Just let them make the call and don't shoot yourself in the foot.


I agree, I don't think I phrased my initial advice right. I guess it was really advice for OCI. If you interview with the firm at PLIP, THEN don't waste a bid on them for OCI. No firm wants to interview you twice.


Right. Definitely not.

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Re: Loyola Patent Fair 2012

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:24 pm

target wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Tech background matters, school matters, grades matter, personality matters, but each firm (and each interviewer from a single firm w/ multiple interviewers) places a different weight on each of those 4 factors.


From people's experience, what are some examples of firms that weight one factor more than others?
To add to the list, ties to the area and work experience can also be pretty big - common sense stuff.

This is all my opinion from my interviews, your mileage may vary.

McDonnell Boehnen liked personality and tech background. The other Chicago boutiques seemed big on tech background and ties. Dickstein was big on grades, or at least they didn't like to see a 2nd semester letdown (lol@me). Covington seemed to want the whole package, but no surprise given that it's Covington. Alston seemed to like ties and personality. Jones Day seemed to like personality and grades. Kirkland seemed to be looking for different things, depending on the interviewer. Can't really remember anything else very specific.

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Re: Loyola Patent Fair 2012

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:37 pm

Does Kirkland interview for all offices?

target
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Re: Loyola Patent Fair 2012

Postby target » Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:52 am

Anonymous User wrote:
target wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Tech background matters, school matters, grades matter, personality matters, but each firm (and each interviewer from a single firm w/ multiple interviewers) places a different weight on each of those 4 factors.


From people's experience, what are some examples of firms that weight one factor more than others?
To add to the list, ties to the area and work experience can also be pretty big - common sense stuff.

This is all my opinion from my interviews, your mileage may vary.

McDonnell Boehnen liked personality and tech background. The other Chicago boutiques seemed big on tech background and ties. Dickstein was big on grades, or at least they didn't like to see a 2nd semester letdown (lol@me). Covington seemed to want the whole package, but no surprise given that it's Covington. Alston seemed to like ties and personality. Jones Day seemed to like personality and grades. Kirkland seemed to be looking for different things, depending on the interviewer. Can't really remember anything else very specific.


These are helpful stuff. Thank you and another anonymous poster. Keep them coming, plz.

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Re: Loyola Patent Fair 2012

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 15, 2012 3:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Does Kirkland interview for all offices?
Yeah. Had screeners with 3 of their offices. If your grades are good enough, you can bid a bunch of their different branches and rack up interviews. If they're not that good, probably better to use the bids on another firm rather than blowing them all on different K&E offices on the off chance that one picks you.

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omnomnom
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Re: Loyola Patent Fair 2012

Postby omnomnom » Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:28 pm

It's April 16. Anybody hear anything from the PLIP people? They're supposed to hand out the accounts today but I haven't heard anything from them. Also, I tried logging in with my old account like OP but I'm locked out.


EDIT: Just got the email as of 12:52pm EST

target
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Re: Loyola Patent Fair 2012

Postby target » Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:26 pm

omnomnom wrote:It's April 16. Anybody hear anything from the PLIP people? They're supposed to hand out the accounts today but I haven't heard anything from them. Also, I tried logging in with my old account like OP but I'm locked out.


EDIT: Just got the email as of 12:52pm EST


The list looks so overwhelming. Shit, I don't know which firms to bid and/or how to strategize my approach.

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stratocophic
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Re: Loyola Patent Fair 2012

Postby stratocophic » Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:20 pm

target wrote:
omnomnom wrote:It's April 16. Anybody hear anything from the PLIP people? They're supposed to hand out the accounts today but I haven't heard anything from them. Also, I tried logging in with my old account like OP but I'm locked out.


EDIT: Just got the email as of 12:52pm EST


The list looks so overwhelming. Shit, I don't know which firms to bid and/or how to strategize my approach.
Priority bids IMO (not in order):

-Firms with very large IP departments
-Firms in cities you have ties to
-Firms in your law school's city/that have lots of associates from your school
-Firms that specialize in your tech background (e.g. Fitzpatrick for bio people, west coast firms for EE/CompSci)
-Firms you just happen to like, for whatever arbitrary reason
-Elite firms/boutiques like Kirkland, Covington, Finnegan/Fish/Fitzpatrick for people with very good grades
-More standard boutiques like all of the Chicago "M" firms (it's uncanny how many of their names start with that letter) for people with worse grades but strong tech backgrounds

Do your research on NALP, firm sites, and Chambers to get a flavor for what firms are all about, what type of IP they handle (both w/r/t technical discipline and which of transactional/prosecution/litigation they do) and where they have locations. That'll allow you to maximize your chances at getting (m)any interviews.

Don't throw a hail mary at somewhere like WilmerHale or Kirkland if you're median at a T2, don't bid on a firm whose website suggests that they do nothing but bio if you're a mechanical/civil engineer, don't bid on a firm in say Seattle or Charlotte (for example) if you've never set foot in the city and have sub-top10% grades with nothing on your resume to suggest a connection to the city and/or region. Common sense will take you a long way in bidding successfully.
Last edited by stratocophic on Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Loyola Patent Fair 2012

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:25 pm

stratocophic wrote:
target wrote:
omnomnom wrote:It's April 16. Anybody hear anything from the PLIP people? They're supposed to hand out the accounts today but I haven't heard anything from them. Also, I tried logging in with my old account like OP but I'm locked out.


EDIT: Just got the email as of 12:52pm EST


The list looks so overwhelming. Shit, I don't know which firms to bid and/or how to strategize my approach.
Priority bids IMO (not in order):

-Firms with very large IP departments
-Firms in cities you have ties to
-Firms in your law school's city/that have lots of associates from your school
-Firms that specialize in your tech background (e.g. Fitzpatrick for bio people, west coast firms for EE/CompSci)
-Firms you just happen to like, for whatever arbitrary reason
-Elite firms/boutiques like Kirkland, Covington, Finnegan/Fish/Fitzpatrick for people with very good grades
-More standard boutiques like all of the Chicago "M" firms (it's uncanny how many of their names start with that letter) for people with worse grades but strong tech backgrounds

Do your research on NALP, firm sites, and Chambers to get a flavor for what firms are all about, what type of IP they handle (both w/r/t technical discipline and which of transactional/prosecution/litigation they do) and where they have locations. That'll allow you to maximize your chances at getting (m)any interviews.


FWIW, I got preselects in 2010 at several of these at PLIP without "very good grades" (median T14) so don't necessarily rule them out. A lot about these firms is fit.

That said, one of them told me that there were more than 1300 bids for their 20 interview slots.

target
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Re: Loyola Patent Fair 2012

Postby target » Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:33 pm

stratocophic wrote:
target wrote:
omnomnom wrote:It's April 16. Anybody hear anything from the PLIP people? They're supposed to hand out the accounts today but I haven't heard anything from them. Also, I tried logging in with my old account like OP but I'm locked out.


EDIT: Just got the email as of 12:52pm EST


The list looks so overwhelming. Shit, I don't know which firms to bid and/or how to strategize my approach.
Priority bids IMO (not in order):

-Firms with very large IP departments
-Firms in cities you have ties to
-Firms in your law school's city/that have lots of associates from your school
-Firms that specialize in your tech background (e.g. Fitzpatrick for bio people, west coast firms for EE/CompSci)
-Firms you just happen to like, for whatever arbitrary reason
-Elite firms/boutiques like Kirkland, Covington, Finnegan/Fish/Fitzpatrick for people with very good grades
-More standard boutiques like all of the Chicago "M" firms (it's uncanny how many of their names start with that letter) for people with worse grades but strong tech backgrounds

Do your research on NALP, firm sites, and Chambers to get a flavor for what firms are all about, what type of IP they handle (both w/r/t technical discipline and which of transactional/prosecution/litigation they do) and where they have locations. That'll allow you to maximize your chances at getting (m)any interviews.

Don't throw a hail mary at somewhere like WilmerHale or Kirkland if you're median at a T2, don't bid on a firm whose website suggests that they do nothing but bio if you're a mechanical/civil engineer, don't bid on a firm in say Seattle or Charlotte (for example) if you've never set foot in the city and have sub-top10% grades with nothing on your resume to suggest a connection to the city and/or region. Common sense will take you a long way in bidding successfully.


Thank you so so much for this information.

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stratocophic
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Re: Loyola Patent Fair 2012

Postby stratocophic » Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
stratocophic wrote:
target wrote:
omnomnom wrote:It's April 16. Anybody hear anything from the PLIP people? They're supposed to hand out the accounts today but I haven't heard anything from them. Also, I tried logging in with my old account like OP but I'm locked out.


EDIT: Just got the email as of 12:52pm EST


The list looks so overwhelming. Shit, I don't know which firms to bid and/or how to strategize my approach.
Priority bids IMO (not in order):

-Firms with very large IP departments
-Firms in cities you have ties to
-Firms in your law school's city/that have lots of associates from your school
-Firms that specialize in your tech background (e.g. Fitzpatrick for bio people, west coast firms for EE/CompSci)
-Firms you just happen to like, for whatever arbitrary reason
-Elite firms/boutiques like Kirkland, Covington, Finnegan/Fish/Fitzpatrick for people with very good grades
-More standard boutiques like all of the Chicago "M" firms (it's uncanny how many of their names start with that letter) for people with worse grades but strong tech backgrounds

Do your research on NALP, firm sites, and Chambers to get a flavor for what firms are all about, what type of IP they handle (both w/r/t technical discipline and which of transactional/prosecution/litigation they do) and where they have locations. That'll allow you to maximize your chances at getting (m)any interviews.


FWIW, I got preselects in 2010 at several of these at PLIP without "very good grades" (median T14) so don't necessarily rule them out. A lot about these firms is fit.

That said, one of them told me that there were more than 1300 bids for their 20 interview slots.
That particular advice doesn't always hold for T14 dudes with decent grades, but I also trust those types to do a better job of bidding without any advice anyway (by simple virtue of the fact that it's less important for them due to the strength of their OCIs, and also because of the bump they get from going to a T14). Also, the 3 F boutiques might not have been the best examples to give, haven't checked the list yet so I didn't know what other preftigious firms are on there this year. Just talking about maximizing chances overall. If people want to take a swing at longshots with 5 or 6 bids, probably won't do much harm.

Competition's fierce, and research online/info from your CSO re: who has gotten offers and interviews in the past are going to be more valuable for an individual than any advice anyone can here give. Don't skimp on the research.

r6_philly
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Re: Loyola Patent Fair 2012

Postby r6_philly » Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:37 pm

This may be a dumb question, are these firms look for prosecution only if they do not indicate anything but the background required? Some mentions litigation, some don't mention anything but the technical area. I don't particularly want to do prosecution and I don't want to take a spot away from someone else.

target
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Re: Loyola Patent Fair 2012

Postby target » Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:46 pm

r6_philly wrote:This may be a dumb question, are these firms look for prosecution only if they do not indicate anything but the background required? Some mentions litigation, some don't mention anything but the technical area. I don't particularly want to do prosecution and I don't want to take a spot away from someone else.


I was assuming the other way since a few firms that I looked at specifically said that they are prosecution firms only.

r6_philly
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Re: Loyola Patent Fair 2012

Postby r6_philly » Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:48 pm

target wrote:
r6_philly wrote:This may be a dumb question, are these firms look for prosecution only if they do not indicate anything but the background required? Some mentions litigation, some don't mention anything but the technical area. I don't particularly want to do prosecution and I don't want to take a spot away from someone else.


I was assuming the other way since a few firms that I looked at specifically said that they are prosecution firms only.


There are some that say pros only. Some say pros and lit. Some say nothing. And I know some of those firms do both, so I suppose I will just bid since they have no preference?




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