The HYS CCN MVPB DCNG mini tiers were created to reflect the reality of admissions selectivity. They don't reflect biglaw placement power now and I don't think they ever really did.johansantana21 wrote:Holy shit those are some depressing numbers.
Goes to show again that Penn>Mishitgan.
Michigan Law Releases Full Employment Stats Forum
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting
Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.
Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
Anonymous Posting
Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.
Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
- IAFG
- Posts: 6641
- Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:26 pm
Re: Michigan Law Releases Full Employment Stats
- johansantana21
- Posts: 855
- Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 7:11 pm
Re: Michigan Law Releases Full Employment Stats
I'd argue Mishitgan isn't more selective than DN and maybe even G.IAFG wrote:The HYS CCN MVPB DCNG mini tiers were created to reflect the reality of admissions selectivity. They don't reflect biglaw placement power now and I don't think they ever really did.johansantana21 wrote:Holy shit those are some depressing numbers.
Goes to show again that Penn>Mishitgan.
- johansantana21
- Posts: 855
- Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 7:11 pm
Re: Michigan Law Releases Full Employment Stats
Have fun getting MEDIANPWNED at Mishitgan. Maybe you can tell me how your confidence worked out then.JoeMo wrote:Hahahahahahahahaha... here we go with the ad-hom again. Douchebags like you find it hard to accept when someone disagrees with their point of view.johansantana21 wrote:No need, I could tell you were a retard from just one post.JoeMo wrote:You're late to the party. Have fun catching up.johansantana21 wrote: Being scared shitless of going to Michigan is not only a good idea, but the only rational one.
Again, if you're scared shitless in approaching a situation, then don't. It really is that simple.
-
- Posts: 1923
- Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:45 am
Re: Michigan Law Releases Full Employment Stats
You are a worthless poster.johansantana21 wrote: Have fun getting MEDIANPWNED at Mishitgan. Maybe you can tell me how your confidence worked out then.
- IAFG
- Posts: 6641
- Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:26 pm
Re: Michigan Law Releases Full Employment Stats
They're probably outdated. Some schools haven't been keeping up in the LSAT arms race. Some schools that used to take splitters and super splitters don't anymore. The point is, applying them to biglaw placement doesn't make sense. In fact, when they came into being, everyone at T14s had a great shot at biglaw, and the relative placement consideration was more about prestigious PI, clerkships, other non-biglaw doors.johansantana21 wrote:I'd argue Mishitgan isn't more selective than DN and maybe even G.IAFG wrote:The HYS CCN MVPB DCNG mini tiers were created to reflect the reality of admissions selectivity. They don't reflect biglaw placement power now and I don't think they ever really did.johansantana21 wrote:Holy shit those are some depressing numbers.
Goes to show again that Penn>Mishitgan.
Want to continue reading?
Register now to search topics and post comments!
Absolutely FREE!
Already a member? Login
-
- Posts: 1500
- Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:39 pm
Re: Michigan Law Releases Full Employment Stats
Frankly, Michigan should not have come forward with these.
I mean, we all want to be in a profession where the schools *all* do exactly this, but being a brave pioneer is not a good idea.
I mean, we all want to be in a profession where the schools *all* do exactly this, but being a brave pioneer is not a good idea.
-
- Posts: 1230
- Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 10:58 pm
Re: Michigan Law Releases Full Employment Stats
+1, this will not help them. I am sure things didn't look awesome at Berkeley or UVA either but now the presumption is that things were much worse at M.flcath wrote:Frankly, Michigan should not have come forward with these.
I mean, we all want to be in a profession where the schools *all* do exactly this, but being a brave pioneer is not a good idea.
- Julio_El_Chavo
- Posts: 803
- Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:09 pm
Re: Michigan Law Releases Full Employment Stats
CR. For all of you know-it-all 0Ls ITT, you have no fucking idea what the economy will be like when you go through OCI, so I suggest you look carefully at the range of potential employment outcomes in deciding whether to go to law school (class of 2007 being at one extreme and class of 2011 being at the other extreme). Then, once you're in law school, don't forget that it's entirely possible for you to try your hardest and end up at or slightly above median.rayiner wrote:I'm going to pull the "3L" card here and say this: having a skeptical attitude about job prospects going in is incredibly useful. C/O 2011's horrific OCI was going on while I was a 1L. I didn't have the relative mountain of data that you guys do now. So I made conservative assumptions. I assumed that I needed to finish top 1/3 to get a job. When it came time for OCI, I did over 50 screeners between Loyola and OCI. I spent 1L summer talking to as many people as I could who might be able to get my resume in front of someone. In the end it was massive overkill, because C/O 2012's OCI went much better than C/O 2011's, but I can't say being a skeptic did anything about help me in the end. I don't know a single skeptical gunner who doesn't have a firm job in my class.
I think it is incredibly dangerous when people like Scrabble underestimate their competition because they're asking what the social scene is like on a TLS thread. For C/O 2011, 1/4 of people ended up with crappy jobs even at schools that melted down less than Michigan. It is very easy to be in that group if you underestimate your peers.
- IAFG
- Posts: 6641
- Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:26 pm
Re: Michigan Law Releases Full Employment Stats
That was already the presumption after the NLJ250 data. This data at least showed that Mich kids got some decent PI stuff. For c/o 2011, 2 got ACLU, 1 got Animal Legal Defense Fund, 1 got CATO, 1 at Clean Air Council, 1 at ELPC, 10+ in bigfed... Honestly better than I would have assumed.shoeshine wrote:+1, this will not help them. I am sure things didn't look awesome at Berkeley or UVA either but now the presumption is that things were much worse at M.flcath wrote:Frankly, Michigan should not have come forward with these.
I mean, we all want to be in a profession where the schools *all* do exactly this, but being a brave pioneer is not a good idea.
- Julio_El_Chavo
- Posts: 803
- Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:09 pm
Re: Michigan Law Releases Full Employment Stats
Yeah, throw in the number of JAGs and Article III clerks, and things don't look as bad as some in here have suggested.IAFG wrote:That was already the presumption after the NLJ250 data. This data at least showed that Mich kids got some decent PI stuff. For c/o 2011, 2 got ACLU, 1 got Animal Legal Defense Fund, 1 got CATO, 1 at Clean Air Council, 1 at ELPC, 10+ in bigfed... Honestly better than I would have assumed.shoeshine wrote:+1, this will not help them. I am sure things didn't look awesome at Berkeley or UVA either but now the presumption is that things were much worse at M.flcath wrote:Frankly, Michigan should not have come forward with these.
I mean, we all want to be in a profession where the schools *all* do exactly this, but being a brave pioneer is not a good idea.
-
- Posts: 521
- Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:03 am
Re: Michigan Law Releases Full Employment Stats
This may have been answered, but I don't see it anywhere on Michigan's data: are any of these short-term employment that is being funded by the school? In other words, are all of these great PI gigs a result of Michigan padding stats or are they students who legitimately have careers now?
- thelawschoolproject
- Posts: 1364
- Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:58 am
Re: Michigan Law Releases Full Employment Stats
Alright people....how did I go from this:
(in regard to the OP and 2009 employment)
To this:
Scared shitless. So scared. Might die of fear.
Okay, so I don't even know what fucking happened. This shit is dumb. I enjoyed the actual discussion of the actual topic at hand. Can we get back to that? Thanks.
<3 Tlsp
thelawschoolproject wrote:This frightens me.
(in regard to the OP and 2009 employment)
To this:
Never said I was scared to go to law school . . . not even sure where you got this from. I also wasn't aware that I was "unsure of [my] decision."ScrabbleChamp wrote:I don't get the train of thought behind being "scared" of going to a law school (Michigan or not) and still going. If you are unsure of your decision, then DON'T GO. Don't invest 3 years of your life, excessive amounts of debt, and time probably better spent elsewhere if you are not 100% sure of your choice.
Telling me to do something else with my life was warranted. Thank you. I'm looking for prostitution gigs now.ScrabbleChamp wrote:if the numbers published by any school make you faint of heart, maybe law school isn't for you and you should find something else to do with your life.
Sorry that my "incessant bitching" (see the above singular post) bothered you.ScrabbleChamp wrote:Either way, if you are not 100% sure about attending law school, don't, and save yourself the money/time and the rest of us your incessant bitching about bleak employment prospects.
Again, sorry that my "bitching" was SOOO off-putting. I'll try to control myself.JoeMo wrote:But as an ADULT going to a PROFESSIONAL school, sometimes it's best to just own your decisions whole-heartedly rather than spend your time on here bitching about the fact that you're worried about your future. As Scrabble said, if you're so worried don't go.
JoeMo wrote:Again, if you're scared shitless in approaching a situation, then don't. It really is that simple.
Scared shitless. So scared. Might die of fear.
Okay, so I don't even know what fucking happened. This shit is dumb. I enjoyed the actual discussion of the actual topic at hand. Can we get back to that? Thanks.
<3 Tlsp
- Samara
- Posts: 3238
- Joined: Wed May 11, 2011 4:26 pm
Register now!
Resources to assist law school applicants, students & graduates.
It's still FREE!
Already a member? Login
- ScrabbleChamp
- Posts: 963
- Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 8:09 am
Re: Michigan Law Releases Full Employment Stats
Tlsp - Not sure if you saw this, but I'm guessing not:thelawschoolproject wrote:Alright people....how did I go from this:
thelawschoolproject wrote:This frightens me.
(in regard to the OP and 2009 employment)
To this:
Never said I was scared to go to law school . . . not even sure where you got this from. I also wasn't aware that I was "unsure of [my] decision."ScrabbleChamp wrote:I don't get the train of thought behind being "scared" of going to a law school (Michigan or not) and still going. If you are unsure of your decision, then DON'T GO. Don't invest 3 years of your life, excessive amounts of debt, and time probably better spent elsewhere if you are not 100% sure of your choice.
Telling me to do something else with my life was warranted. Thank you. I'm looking for prostitution gigs now.ScrabbleChamp wrote:if the numbers published by any school make you faint of heart, maybe law school isn't for you and you should find something else to do with your life.
Sorry that my "incessant bitching" (see the above singular post) bothered you.ScrabbleChamp wrote:Either way, if you are not 100% sure about attending law school, don't, and save yourself the money/time and the rest of us your incessant bitching about bleak employment prospects.
Again, sorry that my "bitching" was SOOO off-putting. I'll try to control myself.JoeMo wrote:But as an ADULT going to a PROFESSIONAL school, sometimes it's best to just own your decisions whole-heartedly rather than spend your time on here bitching about the fact that you're worried about your future. As Scrabble said, if you're so worried don't go.
JoeMo wrote:Again, if you're scared shitless in approaching a situation, then don't. It really is that simple.
Scared shitless. So scared. Might die of fear.
Okay, so I don't even know what fucking happened. This shit is dumb. I enjoyed the actual discussion of the actual topic at hand. Can we get back to that? Thanks.
<3 Tlsp
I meant in no way to single you out or make it seem as if you were the inspiration behind my statements. My comments were directed to those people (like the guy at ASW who sought out a Dean and, no joke, told them they were lying about their employment because he heard this and that... he didn't even listen to the Dean, he just accused her of everything that is wrong in the world) seem to bitch about issues that they don't need to deal with. Why would you go to the UMich ASW just to tell administrators they lie and their school sucks? Also, for those that complain incessantly (I don't know if you do or don't, but you don't ring a bell as one of the people that posts over and over about how bleak the market is, how dumb it is to go to law school, etc...) when they don't need to.ScrabbleChamp wrote: First, I didn't single any one person out...
-
- Posts: 20063
- Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:06 pm
Re: Michigan Law Releases Full Employment Stats
Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, clerkship, etc.
The next person to ignore that rule isn't going to be happy about it.
The next person to ignore that rule isn't going to be happy about it.
- Mr. Somebody
- Posts: 865
- Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:42 pm
Re: Michigan Law Releases Full Employment Stats
Sorry if this has been answered already, but is there any data on the final outcomes for those who had post-grad fellowships?
-
- Posts: 1500
- Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:39 pm
Re: Michigan Law Releases Full Employment Stats
Dean Z has stated that only 8 fellowships are included in the final 9-months-out data; the rest are either recorded as employed in their new jobs (in their appropriate category) or as unemployed.Mr. Somebody wrote:Sorry if this has been answered already, but is there any data on the final outcomes for those who had post-grad fellowships?
Get unlimited access to all forums and topics
Register now!
I'm pretty sure I told you it's FREE...
Already a member? Login
-
- Posts: 427953
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Michigan Law Releases Full Employment Stats
Anonymous User wrote:They don't make offers to everyone who attends these dinners.Anonymous User wrote:At the Gibson Dunn dinner I saw at least 15 people as well.
I don't know if someone responded to this already, but the numbers I was previously talking about were the offer dinners - i.e. everyone had an offer. For DPW there were around 15 there, and a few people I know were given an offer but chose not to attend.
-
- Posts: 5923
- Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:10 pm
Re: Michigan Law Releases Full Employment Stats
Yup. It's on the post-graduate fellowship portion on the Michigan Law website.flcath wrote:Dean Z has stated that only 8 fellowships are included in the final 9-months-out data; the rest are either recorded as employed in their new jobs (in their appropriate category) or as unemployed.Mr. Somebody wrote:Sorry if this has been answered already, but is there any data on the final outcomes for those who had post-grad fellowships?
- Mr. Somebody
- Posts: 865
- Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:42 pm
Re: Michigan Law Releases Full Employment Stats
Right but is there a way of figuring out if they got biglaw, clerkships, PI, etckeg411 wrote:Yup. It's on the post-graduate fellowship portion on the Michigan Law website.flcath wrote:Dean Z has stated that only 8 fellowships are included in the final 9-months-out data; the rest are either recorded as employed in their new jobs (in their appropriate category) or as unemployed.Mr. Somebody wrote:Sorry if this has been answered already, but is there any data on the final outcomes for those who had post-grad fellowships?
-
- Posts: 5923
- Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:10 pm
Re: Michigan Law Releases Full Employment Stats
My guess is they were a reason for the high number of good Federal Gov't/PI jobs on the list.Mr. Somebody wrote:Right but is there a way of figuring out if they got biglaw, clerkships, PI, etckeg411 wrote:Yup. It's on the post-graduate fellowship portion on the Michigan Law website.flcath wrote:Dean Z has stated that only 8 fellowships are included in the final 9-months-out data; the rest are either recorded as employed in their new jobs (in their appropriate category) or as unemployed.Mr. Somebody wrote:Sorry if this has been answered already, but is there any data on the final outcomes for those who had post-grad fellowships?
Communicate now with those who not only know what a legal education is, but can offer you worthy advice and commentary as you complete the three most educational, yet challenging years of your law related post graduate life.
Register now, it's still FREE!
Already a member? Login
-
- Posts: 427953
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Michigan Law Releases Full Employment Stats
I'm an interviewer at GDC and I can confirm that not everyone who is invited to the dinners gets an offer. Most (all?) of them get CBs, but not all of them get offers.Anonymous User wrote:Anonymous User wrote:They don't make offers to everyone who attends these dinners.Anonymous User wrote:At the Gibson Dunn dinner I saw at least 15 people as well.
I don't know if someone responded to this already, but the numbers I was previously talking about were the offer dinners - i.e. everyone had an offer. For DPW there were around 15 there, and a few people I know were given an offer but chose not to attend.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Fri Apr 06, 2012 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Posts: 1500
- Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:39 pm
Re: Michigan Law Releases Full Employment Stats
(1) They are aggregated into the numbers for those respective categories. But no, you can't tell what the actual outcomes for the specific kids in the fellowship program were.Mr. Somebody wrote:Right but is there a way of figuring out if they got biglaw, clerkships, PI, etckeg411 wrote:Yup. It's on the post-graduate fellowship portion on the Michigan Law website.flcath wrote:Dean Z has stated that only 8 fellowships are included in the final 9-months-out data; the rest are either recorded as employed in their new jobs (in their appropriate category) or as unemployed.Mr. Somebody wrote:Sorry if this has been answered already, but is there any data on the final outcomes for those who had post-grad fellowships?
(2) But I, personally, can tell you: no, they didn't get biglaw or clerkships.
-
- Posts: 18203
- Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:47 pm
Re: Michigan Law Releases Full Employment Stats
That's not an ad hom. Saying, you are moron, therefore you are wrong is an ad hom. She is just concluding that you would in fact be a moron. The causation is reversed.JoeMo wrote:Ad Hom much?IAFG wrote:If you're 100% sure law school is a good plan, you're a moron.
-
- Posts: 18203
- Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:47 pm
Re: Michigan Law Releases Full Employment Stats
LOL in re: my last comment. ^rayiner wrote:Improper use of "ad hominem" in this context. "You're a moron" is a conclusion, not a basis for an attack on an argument.JoeMo wrote:Ad Hom much?IAFG wrote:If you're 100% sure law school is a good plan, you're a moron.
Seriously? What are you waiting for?
Now there's a charge.
Just kidding ... it's still FREE!
Already a member? Login