Consulting compensation for MBA's - 1st year Associate

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moose
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Consulting compensation for MBA's - 1st year Associate

Postby moose » Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:59 pm

I'm posting these just as a general comparison to Biglaw jobs. Some lurkers (or even regulars) may be trying to decide between JD and MBA (or maybe JD/MBA). Since we know in general what the compensation structure is for BigLaw,..I thought I would give the other side. **Keep in mind, that these jobs are generally only open to roughly the Top 15 schools, and these consulting jobs are only a slice of the kind of opportunities available to MBAs (not even the highest paying slice, finance folks get paid significantly better than consulting folks at the top firms) **


BAIN:

Signing Bonus: $20,000
Base: $125,000
Performance Bonus: up to $39,000 for your first year
Total compensation: $184,000
Retirement: 401(k) contribution up to $7,400

Deloitte:

Signing Bonus: $40,000
Base: $125,000
Performance Bonus: up to $39,000 for your first year
Total compensation: $204,000


BCG:

Signing Bonus: $20,000
Base: $135,000
Performance Bonus: up to $40,000 for your first year
Relocation: $2-5,000 depending on distance
Total compensation: at least $197,000

LEK:

Signing Bonus: $25,000
Base: $135,000
Performance Bonus: up to $25,000 for your first year
Relocation: $5,000
Total compensation: at least $190,000
Retirement and profit sharing: up to $30,000

McKinsey

Signing Bonus: $20,000
Base: $125,000
Performance Bonus: up to $40,000 for your first year
Relocation: $2-5,000 depending on distance
Total compensation: at least $187,000


Drawback: Hours can be just as brutal as BigLaw,...except with the added cruelty of constant travel (you'll be gone most of the work week,..so good luck if you have a family).

Extra Bonus: The work 1st year associates do is extremely interesting, and you actually use your intellect to solve problems while learning a trade.

Another Drawback: Almost as morally vapid as Biglaw.

Other MBA alternatives to consulting are: General Management (not as good pay, very good quality of life), IBanking (better pay, but you'll burn out in 2 years),...Venture capital (extremely high pay, can go up to the millions depending on how your companies do, ..and you get to work with startups, so its very interesting. Also extremely difficult to land a VC job even at the best schools).

Keep in mind,...grades don't matter in business school (grade non-disclosure policy at all the top schools),..so as long as you get into a top 10-15ish program you have a great shot at one of these lucrative jobs regardless of grades. You just have to interview well and make good contacts. The only caveat to this is that the most lucrative consulting and finance jobs sometimes ask for your GMAT score, particularly your quantitative score, as a stand in for grades,..to make sure you can handle complex analytics.

Morgan12Oak
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Re: Consulting compensation for MBA's - 1st year Associate

Postby Morgan12Oak » Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:13 pm

This analysis is really not that helpful without looking the incredible disparity between the opportunity cost of someone looking at a JD versus looking at an MBA

Average JD candidate has a significantly lower opportunity cost than someone looking at a MBA.

moose
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Re: Consulting compensation for MBA's - 1st year Associate

Postby moose » Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:22 pm

Morgan12Oak wrote:This analysis is really not that helpful without looking the incredible disparity between the opportunity cost of someone looking at a JD versus looking at an MBA

Average JD candidate has a significantly lower opportunity cost than someone looking at a MBA.


Yes thats true to an extent....at the top MBA programs incoming students left jobs in which they made averages in the neighborhood of $75,000 per year. But,..you also have to factor in that your average MBA student has assets that can somewhat ameliorate their debt position, perhaps the biggest of which is their actual tangible work experience (average of 5 years and some leadership experience) they can actually capitalize on even without the top consulting jobs. And they don't go to school for 3 years.

Sup Kid
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Re: Consulting compensation for MBA's - 1st year Associate

Postby Sup Kid » Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:51 pm

Seems as though the bolded "total compensation" is a bit misleading, since it includes the full amount of the "up to" performance bonuses. How likely is it for someone to actually receive the full bonus/what is the average bonus that one would receive? Also, since the signing bonus is a one-time thing, after the first year the "total compensation" amount is at least $20,000 less.

moose
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Re: Consulting compensation for MBA's - 1st year Associate

Postby moose » Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:00 pm

Sup Kid wrote:Seems as though the bolded "total compensation" is a bit misleading, since it includes the full amount of the "up to" performance bonuses. How likely is it for someone to actually receive the full bonus/what is the average bonus that one would receive? Also, since the signing bonus is a one-time thing, after the first year the "total compensation" amount is at least $20,000 less.


The bonuses listed are average,...there are folks who get significantly higher bonuses. It all depends on group performance. As far as the signing bonus, the above compensation is only for the 1st year but the base salary goes up every year as well. With business jobs you can't nail down true compensation because it fluctuates,..whereas biglaw compensation is predictable. But i still think the total compensation numbers are instructive, though obviously not perfect.

BlueDiamond
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Re: Consulting compensation for MBA's - 1st year Associate

Postby BlueDiamond » Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:07 pm

what is this grade non-disclosure stuff?? and would it be worth it to do a 1 year MBA at a non-top 15 if its free?

moose
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Re: Consulting compensation for MBA's - 1st year Associate

Postby moose » Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:22 pm

BlueDiamond wrote:what is this grade non-disclosure stuff?? and would it be worth it to do a 1 year MBA at a non-top 15 if its free?


There is an unofficial agreement between students not to disclose grades during OCIs. And the schools do not provide grades or GPA to recruiters. This policy is understood w/ all the major recruiters, so they don't even bother to ask about grades. Additionally, many of the top schools have very vague grading system to tone down the competition......for e.g. Dartmouth-Tuck has H (honors) S+ (satisfactory plus) S (satisfactory), and LP (low pass). If you're in the top of your class,...a backdoor way to signal your grades to employers is to indicate "high honors" or "deans list" on your resume.

As for the 1 year MBA,...depends on many factors. How good is the school? What would you be giving up for that 1 year? Do you have a clear idea of what you want to do with the MBA and how to get there without the same recruiting opportunities of a top school (in case the program is not top 15ish)? I'd say if you get into a top program for a 1 year MBA (I think Northwestern has a 1 year option) for free,...then definitely take it. Anything else, it depends.....if I got a free ride to Texas-McCombs or Carnegie Mellon,...I'd take it. If I got a free ride to DeVry, I'd kindly decline.

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monkey85
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Re: Consulting compensation for MBA's - 1st year Associate

Postby monkey85 » Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:32 pm

Hated the case interviews to get the jerb.

Hated the traveling (but not the SPG points!).

Looking forward to BigLaw.

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Re: Consulting compensation for MBA's - 1st year Associate

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:43 pm

How realistic are these jobs to a JD/MBA from HYS? Also, are these jobs accessible to just a JD from HYS? Can you comment on the interview process etc? Thanks.

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Re: Consulting compensation for MBA's - 1st year Associate

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:How realistic are these jobs to a JD/MBA from HYS? Also, are these jobs accessible to just a JD from HYS? Can you comment on the interview process etc? Thanks.


^Assume the absence of meaningful work experience or more accurately, low level work experience in finance.

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20130312
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Re: Consulting compensation for MBA's - 1st year Associate

Postby 20130312 » Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:53 pm

Uh, where are you getting these numbers from? Also, the prospects for most MBA candidates to get a job at any of these companies, let alone the positions that would pay this much, are fairly low. Let's not forget that MBA candidates that get these jobs typically already have at least 5 years of experience in the field already.

Are you even in business school?

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Re: Consulting compensation for MBA's - 1st year Associate

Postby bdubs » Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:06 pm

This thread is dumb. Also, you've got a lot of incorrect information about the recruiting process and odds of landing one of these jobs.

imchuckbass58
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Re: Consulting compensation for MBA's - 1st year Associate

Postby imchuckbass58 » Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:11 pm

A few things things:

-I know you posted these from managementconsulted.com, but having actually seen this year's offer letters firsthand, base comp for some of these firms (specifically BCG and McK) has gone up slightly. Also, the bonuses you refer to are top bonus - average is somewhere around half to two thirds the amount you list.

-I think saying "as long you get into a top 10-15ish program you have a great shot at one of these lucrative jobs regardless of grades" is wrong, or at least misleading. First, there are ways to get at whether you have good grades - most schools have dean's list, or some other demarcation of academic merit even if you have a nondisclosure policy. A disproportionate amount of people who get these jobs have those credentials. Second, even at a place like HBS, a sizable amount of people who want consulting don't get it at all (i.e., strike out), and a very small portion (well under a third of those who interview) get any of the big 3 (McK/Bain/BCG). So it's not like you're going to waltz in. Not to mention if you're from a non-target school, it's almost impossible to get in. I'm looking at the summer class list for the largest office of one of these firms. Upwards of 80% come from 5 schools (Harvard, Stanford, Wharton, Kellogg, and Columbia), with only four other schools represented at all - all with 1-2 people.

-In terms of absolute hours consulting is probably similar to biglaw, but it's much more regular (you'll never pull all-nighters), and concentrated during the week (you almost never work weekends).

-Also, VC actually generally compensates less than finance (or even consulting) at commensurate levels of experience until you get to the point where you start getting part of the carry (usually partner level). And at partner level, any of these fields will net you "up to the millions."

-"General management" is actually a collection of different job functions that vary considerably in terms of responsibility, hours, and activities (bus. dev./corp. dev., marketing, brand management, product management. Also a lot of people do non-banking finance jobs such as equity research, investment management, hedge funds, PE, etc.

Given that it's clear that you neither work in consulting nor go to one of these b-schools, you might want to exercise some discretion before posting information that's not entirely accurate.
Last edited by imchuckbass58 on Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Consulting compensation for MBA's - 1st year Associate

Postby imchuckbass58 » Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:How realistic are these jobs to a JD/MBA from HYS? Also, are these jobs accessible to just a JD from HYS? Can you comment on the interview process etc? Thanks.


McKinsey, Bain and BCG will all interview you with either a JD or JD/MBA from Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Columbia, NYU, Penn, Northwestern, Chicago and maybe 1 or 2 others.

Your odds are going to be driven much less by grades (though you can't have terrible ones) as much as your ability to do case interview and your ability to demonstrate fit. So yes, they're accessible, but that doesn't mean you will get them. Taking stats from CLS, about 40 people interview and 1-2 get offered jobs each year (though it's unclear how many of the 40 take the interviews seriously, which you have to - as in preferably weeks of preparation).

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Re: Consulting compensation for MBA's - 1st year Associate

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:27 pm

The fact that's missing here is that most people who snag MBB associate gigs out of MBA worked at MBB or BB going into MBA. That is, pre-MBA work experience matters a ton. So this "compare MBA->MBB and JD->BigLaw" thing is only relevant if someone is considering leaving MBB or BB and choosing between JD and MBA. Otherwise you're going to end up with strategy consulting at a F500, management rotations for a blue chip, second- or third-tier consulting, marketing, etc.

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Re: Consulting compensation for MBA's - 1st year Associate

Postby moose » Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:44 pm

InGoodFaith wrote:Uh, where are you getting these numbers from? Also, the prospects for most MBA candidates to get a job at any of these companies, let alone the positions that would pay this much, are fairly low. Let's not forget that MBA candidates that get these jobs typically already have at least 5 years of experience in the field already.

Are you even in business school?


This is absolutely wrong....I know management consultants at MBB that have engineering backgrounds. And keep in mind that you're not competing w/ the entire class for these jobs,...large numbers of people don't want anything to do with management consulting.

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monkey85
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Re: Consulting compensation for MBA's - 1st year Associate

Postby monkey85 » Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:48 pm

moose wrote:
InGoodFaith wrote:Uh, where are you getting these numbers from? Also, the prospects for most MBA candidates to get a job at any of these companies, let alone the positions that would pay this much, are fairly low. Let's not forget that MBA candidates that get these jobs typically already have at least 5 years of experience in the field already.

Are you even in business school?


This is absolutely wrong....I know management consultants at MBB that have engineering backgrounds. And keep in mind that you're not competing w/ the entire class for these jobs,...large numbers of people don't want anything to do with management consulting.


We have a good lawyer on our hands - (s)he placed a qualification.

moose
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Re: Consulting compensation for MBA's - 1st year Associate

Postby moose » Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:51 pm

imchuckbass58 wrote:A few things things:

-I know you posted these from managementconsulted.com, but having actually seen this year's offer letters firsthand, base comp for some of these firms (specifically BCG and McK) has gone up slightly. Also, the bonuses you refer to are top bonus - average is somewhere around half to two thirds the amount you list.

-I think saying "as long you get into a top 10-15ish program you have a great shot at one of these lucrative jobs regardless of grades" is wrong, or at least misleading. First, there are ways to get at whether you have good grades - most schools have dean's list, or some other demarcation of academic merit even if you have a nondisclosure policy. A disproportionate amount of people who get these jobs have those credentials. Second, even at a place like HBS, a sizable amount of people who want consulting don't get it at all (i.e., strike out), and a very small portion (well under a third of those who interview) get any of the big 3 (McK/Bain/BCG). So it's not like you're going to waltz in. Not to mention if you're from a non-target school, it's almost impossible to get in. I'm looking at the summer class list for the largest office of one of these firms. Upwards of 80% come from 5 schools (Harvard, Stanford, Wharton, Kellogg, and Columbia), with only four other schools represented at all - all with 1-2 people.

-In terms of absolute hours consulting is probably similar to biglaw, but it's much more regular (you'll never pull all-nighters), and concentrated during the week (you almost never work weekends).

-Also, VC actually generally compensates less than finance (or even consulting) at commensurate levels of experience until you get to the point where you start getting part of the carry (usually partner level). And at partner level, any of these fields will net you "up to the millions."

-"General management" is actually a collection of different job functions that vary considerably in terms of responsibility, hours, and activities (bus. dev./corp. dev., marketing, brand management, product management. Also a lot of people do non-banking finance jobs such as equity research, investment management, hedge funds, PE, etc.

Given that it's clear that you neither work in consulting nor go to one of these b-schools, you might want to exercise some discretion before posting information that's not entirely accurate.


Understand 3 things,..firstly I just gave a slice of the job opportunities,..I never said anyone can waltz in and get into MBB,...there are other second tier consulting firms that pay extremely well, some listed above (Deloitte). So don't make it seem that landing a management consulting job is almost impossible. Its VERY possible at the top schools,..if you want those jobs its quite within reach. Thirdly,..my broad breakdown of the other areas of business were literally 5 words on each area as I understand them, I'm not writing a thesis on it. And to add one more thing,...I just posted this just as a broad comparison,..so regardless of whether the details are completely accurate,..the gist of it is correct.
Last edited by moose on Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Consulting compensation for MBA's - 1st year Associate

Postby moose » Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:57 pm

monkey85 wrote:
moose wrote:
InGoodFaith wrote:Uh, where are you getting these numbers from? Also, the prospects for most MBA candidates to get a job at any of these companies, let alone the positions that would pay this much, are fairly low. Let's not forget that MBA candidates that get these jobs typically already have at least 5 years of experience in the field already.

Are you even in business school?


This is absolutely wrong....I know management consultants at MBB that have engineering backgrounds. And keep in mind that you're not competing w/ the entire class for these jobs,...large numbers of people don't want anything to do with management consulting.


We have a good lawyer on our hands - (s)he placed a qualification.


The qualifier is also wrong. I've actually found that many folks going into b-school with consulting experience are repelled from management consulting, because they've just grown tired of it. I don't have stats,..but i'd guess a good number of management consulting recruits don't have any consulting experience.

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dingbat
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Re: Consulting compensation for MBA's - 1st year Associate

Postby dingbat » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:35 pm

I just want to point out that a 75% employment rate at a law school would qualify it as TTT.
For business school, this is sufficient to make the top 15
(I recently looked up Columbia, which was sporting a 74% employment rate, if I recall correctly)

imchuckbass58
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Re: Consulting compensation for MBA's - 1st year Associate

Postby imchuckbass58 » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:55 pm

dingbat wrote:I just want to point out that a 75% employment rate at a law school would qualify it as TTT.
For business school, this is sufficient to make the top 15
(I recently looked up Columbia, which was sporting a 74% employment rate, if I recall correctly)


You mean 91%? With 98% receiving offers?

http://www7.gsb.columbia.edu/recruiters ... mentreport

Morgan12Oak
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Re: Consulting compensation for MBA's - 1st year Associate

Postby Morgan12Oak » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:58 pm

imchuckbass58 wrote:
dingbat wrote:I just want to point out that a 75% employment rate at a law school would qualify it as TTT.
For business school, this is sufficient to make the top 15
(I recently looked up Columbia, which was sporting a 74% employment rate, if I recall correctly)


You mean 91%? With 98% receiving offers?

http://www7.gsb.columbia.edu/recruiters ... mentreport


To be fair that 98% is only of the people who reported salaries. The more correct number is lower. But, regardless, just LMAO, LMAO @dingbat. If he really did look up the stats recently, then god save his soul.

Try 89.6%: http://poetsandquants.com/2011/04/25/be ... ing-a-job/

Also dingbat, that's 89.6% THREE months after graduation whereas the law school metric is NINE months. Please save us your research.

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Re: Consulting compensation for MBA's - 1st year Associate

Postby ajr » Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:24 am

moose wrote:I'm posting these just as a general comparison to Biglaw jobs. Some lurkers (or even regulars) may be trying to decide between JD and MBA (or maybe JD/MBA). Since we know in general what the compensation structure is for BigLaw,..I thought I would give the other side. **Keep in mind, that these jobs are generally only open to roughly the Top 15 schools, and these consulting jobs are only a slice of the kind of opportunities available to MBAs (not even the highest paying slice, finance folks get paid significantly better than consulting folks at the top firms) **


BAIN:

Signing Bonus: $20,000
Base: $125,000
Performance Bonus: up to $39,000 for your first year
Total compensation: $184,000
Retirement: 401(k) contribution up to $7,400

Deloitte:

Signing Bonus: $40,000
Base: $125,000
Performance Bonus: up to $39,000 for your first year
Total compensation: $204,000


BCG:

Signing Bonus: $20,000
Base: $135,000
Performance Bonus: up to $40,000 for your first year
Relocation: $2-5,000 depending on distance
Total compensation: at least $197,000

LEK:

Signing Bonus: $25,000
Base: $135,000
Performance Bonus: up to $25,000 for your first year
Relocation: $5,000
Total compensation: at least $190,000
Retirement and profit sharing: up to $30,000

McKinsey

Signing Bonus: $20,000
Base: $125,000
Performance Bonus: up to $40,000 for your first year
Relocation: $2-5,000 depending on distance
Total compensation: at least $187,000


Drawback: Hours can be just as brutal as BigLaw,...except with the added cruelty of constant travel (you'll be gone most of the work week,..so good luck if you have a family).

Extra Bonus: The work 1st year associates do is extremely interesting, and you actually use your intellect to solve problems while learning a trade.

Another Drawback: Almost as morally vapid as Biglaw.

Other MBA alternatives to consulting are: General Management (not as good pay, very good quality of life), IBanking (better pay, but you'll burn out in 2 years),...Venture capital (extremely high pay, can go up to the millions depending on how your companies do, ..and you get to work with startups, so its very interesting. Also extremely difficult to land a VC job even at the best schools).

Keep in mind,...grades don't matter in business school (grade non-disclosure policy at all the top schools),..so as long as you get into a top 10-15ish program you have a great shot at one of these lucrative jobs regardless of grades. You just have to interview well and make good contacts. The only caveat to this is that the most lucrative consulting and finance jobs sometimes ask for your GMAT score, particularly your quantitative score, as a stand in for grades,..to make sure you can handle complex analytics.


LOL at your total compensation calculation. Total median compensation is more like 125k + 25k = 150k for first years at the big 3 consulting firms. Sign on bonus??? That's one time. So is relocation. Like those websites you are adding tuition re-imbursement too? What are you going to study after the MBA?

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Re: Consulting compensation for MBA's - 1st year Associate

Postby sparty99 » Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:54 am

The OP who started this thread is on crack. I worked in consulting prior to law school. Those total compensation figures ARE TOTALLY DISTORTED.

Base salary is $75-$120k depending on the firm. Signing bonus? In this economy? Puh-lease! If you are so lucky. And it would most likely not be $40k...Then year-end bonus? Puh-lease! In this economy? Consultants are lucky to even have a job, let alone receive a bonus.

Lastly, consultants usually have business experience that they gained prior to their MBA. Law students usually do not have full-time experience. And your salary at a consulting firm can also be tied to what you did prior to your MBA.

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Re: Consulting compensation for MBA's - 1st year Associate

Postby imchuckbass58 » Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:58 am

sparty99 wrote:The OP who started this thread is on crack. I worked in consulting prior to law school. Those total compensation figures ARE TOTALLY DISTORTED.

Base salary is $75-$120k depending on the firm. Signing bonus? In this economy? Puh-lease! If you are so lucky. And it would most likely not be $40k...Then year-end bonus? Puh-lease! In this economy? Consultants are lucky to even have a job, let alone receive a bonus.

Lastly, consultants usually have business experience that they gained prior to their MBA. Law students usually do not have full-time experience. And your salary at a consulting firm can also be tied to what you did prior to your MBA.


I agree the OP that started this thread is on crack, but the starting salary figures for BCG/McK are accurate/actually a little low. Not basing this on hearsay - actual offers. Signing bonuses are $20k.

Also Bain/BCG/McK certainly do not tie comp to pre-MBA work experience - all associates get the same base comp and bonus potential.




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