Late 2013 Start Date Forum

[Anonymous User]

Hearing rumors that my start date is going to be Jan 2013 [not confirmed yet, but other major markets the firm is located in has apparently sent out confirmations to the class of '12.

Couple questions - any advice = awesome.

1) Should I be worried by this? I thought the general thoughts were that the market was improving, or at least stabilized. Perhaps that just actually means stagnant. Obviously it will vary by firm but I am wondering if this usually signals bad times to come or if late start dates preceded deferrals, or even rescinded offers.

2) Regardless of 1), what should I do during this time period? I am sure many will say "nothing, you have your whole life to work" and I couldn't agree more. However, I'm a bit worried about this, monetarily (I'm not even sure if real gainful employment is likely in such a short period of time).

If $ jobs aren't the way to go, do many people in this situation obtain a quasi-internship of some sort? I wouldn't mind doing something that may help with being an associate or improving my skills as an attorney (lord knows law school lacks in that area).

Any anecdotal examples, personal stories, or simple advice would be greatly appreciated - even if I haven't thought of it here.

[Sup Kid]

Hearing rumors that my start date is going to be Jan 2013 [not confirmed yet, but other major markets the firm is located in has apparently sent out confirmations to the class of '12.

Couple questions - any advice = awesome.

1) Should I be worried by this? I thought the general thoughts were that the market was improving, or at least stabilized. Perhaps that just actually means stagnant. Obviously it will vary by firm but I am wondering if this usually signals bad times to come or if late start dates preceded deferrals, or even rescinded offers.

2) Regardless of 1), what should I do during this time period? I am sure many will say "nothing, you have your whole life to work" and I couldn't agree more. However, I'm a bit worried about this, monetarily (I'm not even sure if real gainful employment is likely in such a short period of time).

If $ jobs aren't the way to go, do many people in this situation obtain a quasi-internship of some sort? I wouldn't mind doing something that may help with being an associate or improving my skills as an attorney (lord knows law school lacks in that area).

Any anecdotal examples, personal stories, or simple advice would be greatly appreciated - even if I haven't thought of it here.

You're anonymous, so it'd be helpful to others if you named the firm. As to your question, a lot of it will come down to if the firm gives you a stipend/salary advance during the delay. If it doesn't, then you most likely need to work somewhere just to stay afloat. Just make sure there won't be any conflicts if you work in another legal position.

[Anonymous User]

see you can do a fellowship with your law school. or if money isn't an issue, you can do pro bono work with your school's law clinic or a legal aid to keep you busy.

[Anonymous User]

Hearing rumors that my start date is going to be Jan 2013 [not confirmed yet, but other major markets the firm is located in has apparently sent out confirmations to the class of '12.

Couple questions - any advice = awesome.

1) Should I be worried by this? I thought the general thoughts were that the market was improving, or at least stabilized. Perhaps that just actually means stagnant. Obviously it will vary by firm but I am wondering if this usually signals bad times to come or if late start dates preceded deferrals, or even rescinded offers.

2) Regardless of 1), what should I do during this time period? I am sure many will say "nothing, you have your whole life to work" and I couldn't agree more. However, I'm a bit worried about this, monetarily (I'm not even sure if real gainful employment is likely in such a short period of time).

If $ jobs aren't the way to go, do many people in this situation obtain a quasi-internship of some sort? I wouldn't mind doing something that may help with being an associate or improving my skills as an attorney (lord knows law school lacks in that area).

Any anecdotal examples, personal stories, or simple advice would be greatly appreciated - even if I haven't thought of it here.

Are you talking about K&L Gates? Because, yeah it's looking like a 1/2013 start.

[Anonymous User]

Hearing rumors that my start date is going to be Jan 2013 [not confirmed yet, but other major markets the firm is located in has apparently sent out confirmations to the class of '12.

Couple questions - any advice = awesome.

1) Should I be worried by this? I thought the general thoughts were that the market was improving, or at least stabilized. Perhaps that just actually means stagnant. Obviously it will vary by firm but I am wondering if this usually signals bad times to come or if late start dates preceded deferrals, or even rescinded offers.

2) Regardless of 1), what should I do during this time period? I am sure many will say "nothing, you have your whole life to work" and I couldn't agree more. However, I'm a bit worried about this, monetarily (I'm not even sure if real gainful employment is likely in such a short period of time).

If $ jobs aren't the way to go, do many people in this situation obtain a quasi-internship of some sort? I wouldn't mind doing something that may help with being an associate or improving my skills as an attorney (lord knows law school lacks in that area).

Any anecdotal examples, personal stories, or simple advice would be greatly appreciated - even if I haven't thought of it here.

Are you talking about K&L Gates? Because, yeah it's looking like a 1/2013 start.

Is this true for all locations?

[Anonymous User]

Are you talking about K&L Gates? Because, yeah it's looking like a 1/2013 start.

Is this true for all locations?

I would be surprised if it varied from office to office but it's possible. I haven't heard about any dates outside my office.

[Anonymous User]

Are you talking about K&L Gates? Because, yeah it's looking like a 1/2013 start.

Is this true for all locations?

I would be surprised if it varied from office to office but it's possible. I haven't heard about any dates outside my office.

OP here - and yes, that is the firm. I have heard that numerous locations heard 1/7/2013. Haven't heard officially here, but was basically told to assume the same date. Pretty confused about what to do during the time. It sounds like work through the school would be most likely, but I'd rather not have to find a limited sublet and pay that much rent with no real income or loans.

[Anonymous User]

I got this too. Wait until you see the memo!

[Anonymous User]

I got this too. Wait until you see the memo!

Does it have any information as to why? I.e. you're all fucked? Ha

[Anonymous User]

I got this too. Wait until you see the memo!

Does it have any information as to why? I.e. you're all fucked? Ha

Interested to know this as well. Not a 3L holding an offer, but a concerned 2L with a SA there.

[IrwinM.Fletcher]

Sounds ominous for offer rates this summer.

[Anonymous User]

Would it be appropriate to start looking for other positions, based upon a late start date such as this? Essentially, is this appropriate grounds for reneging on your offer acceptance?

[Anonymous User]

Would it be appropriate to start looking for other positions, based upon a late start date such as this? Essentially, is this appropriate grounds for reneging on your offer acceptance?

For a SA or post-grad position?

[Anonymous User]

Would it be appropriate to start looking for other positions, based upon a late start date such as this? Essentially, is this appropriate grounds for reneging on your offer acceptance?

For a SA or post-grad position?

post-grad

[Anonymous User]

Would it be appropriate to start looking for other positions, based upon a late start date such as this? Essentially, is this appropriate grounds for reneging on your offer acceptance?

For a SA or post-grad position?

post-grad

It's all employment at-will so you can pull out any time (as can they). But you might want to check into school recruiting standards and take an honest appraisal of whether you'll get anything else.

[Old Gregg]

I know class of 2011 graduates who started in January of 2012 even at so called "reputable" firms like Weil and Shearman.

You should check to see if your firm is giving you money to tide you over until January. One of my friends received a $30,000 stipend (though not from the above listed firms--those firms just gave a $10,000 salary advance... pitiful).

[Anonymous User]

I know class of 2011 graduates who started in January of 2012 even at so called "reputable" firms like Weil and Shearman.

You should check to see if your firm is giving you money to tide you over until January. One of my friends received a $30,000 stipend (though not from the above listed firms--those firms just gave a $10,000 salary advance... pitiful).

K&L is giving only a small advance

[Old Gregg]

Probably too late to find a job somewhere else. I don't really think this is an omen (at least not nearly as much as it was in 2008-2009). Firms have mostly kept their word.

Honestly, if I were you, I wouldn't take a bar trip and I would live with my parents until January. Some good video games are coming out: Baldur's Gate remake, Diablo III, Simcity 5. Just knock 'em out.

I know law students think of the bar trip as a rite of passage, but it's not really worth going further in debt for, and I always tend to chuckle when even V5 incoming associates blow their salary advances on a bar trip. Save it for the apartment security and rent deposits you'll eventually need.

[Anonymous User]

Probably too late to find a job somewhere else. I don't really think this is an omen (at least not nearly as much as it was in 2008-2009). Firms have mostly kept their word.

Honestly, if I were you, I wouldn't take a bar trip and I would live with my parents until January. Some good video games are coming out: Baldur's Gate remake, Diablo III, Simcity 5. Just knock 'em out.

I know law students think of the bar trip as a rite of passage, but it's not really worth going further in debt for, and I always tend to chuckle when even V5 incoming associates blow their salary advances on a bar trip. Save it for the apartment security and rent deposits you'll eventually need.

yeah, sounds like a great fucking way to live your life. entering a grueling profession without one last shot at fun, whether its somewhere expensive or not, is terrible advice. dude, in 20 years you won't remember whether you had to pinch pennies to pay your rent, but you will still remember a great trip.

it's also not by far too late to find another job. plenty of firms are currently hiring 3Ls... if your credentials are good.

[Old Gregg]

dude, in 20 years you won't remember whether you had to pinch pennies to pay your rent, but you will still remember a great trip.

...but in two years if you're laid off, you will still remember that "great trip" and really begin to wish you'd used your money wisely. Or heck, if you don't even end up starting, you'll regret it even more (wasn't it Elie Mystal who said that you don't have a job until you're sitting at your desk? One of the few right things he's ever said). In this economy, you're taking a pretty big risk blowing a $10,000 loan on a trip, especially with another $200,000 hanging in the balance.

That aside, there will be plenty of times to have nice trips as an associate. I've already taken a few long extravagant vacations myself. And I have more than a hundred thousand sitting in the bank.

But poor me

[Anonymous User]

dude, in 20 years you won't remember whether you had to pinch pennies to pay your rent, but you will still remember a great trip.

...but in two years if you're laid off, you will still remember that "great trip" and really begin to wish you'd used your money wisely. Or heck, if you don't even end up starting, you'll regret it even more (wasn't it Elie Mystal who said that you don't have a job until you're sitting at your desk? One of the few right things he's ever said). In this economy, you're taking a pretty big risk blowing a $10,000 loan on a trip, especially with another $200,000 hanging in the balance.

That aside, there will be plenty of times to have nice trips as an associate. I've already taken a few long extravagant vacations myself. And I have more than a hundred thousand sitting in the bank.

But poor me

well there is a difference between spending 1k and 10k on a vacation... i wish i had a deferral i'd go travelling for a few months, even if i had to do it on the cheap.

[Anonymous User]

dude, in 20 years you won't remember whether you had to pinch pennies to pay your rent, but you will still remember a great trip.

...but in two years if you're laid off, you will still remember that "great trip" and really begin to wish you'd used your money wisely. Or heck, if you don't even end up starting, you'll regret it even more (wasn't it Elie Mystal who said that you don't have a job until you're sitting at your desk? One of the few right things he's ever said). In this economy, you're taking a pretty big risk blowing a $10,000 loan on a trip, especially with another $200,000 hanging in the balance.

That aside, there will be plenty of times to have nice trips as an associate. I've already taken a few long extravagant vacations myself. And I have more than a hundred thousand sitting in the bank.

But poor me

well there is a difference between spending 1k and 10k on a vacation... i wish i had a deferral i'd go travelling for a few months, even if i had to do it on the cheap.

Probably a good middle ground. Head down to Southeast Asia where you can live on a dollar a day. Either way, I've seen way too many people blow their bar stipends/salary advances on stupid shit. Save, save, save.

[Younger Abstention]

dude, in 20 years you won't remember whether you had to pinch pennies to pay your rent, but you will still remember a great trip.

...but in two years if you're laid off, you will still remember that "great trip" and really begin to wish you'd used your money wisely. Or heck, if you don't even end up starting, you'll regret it even more (wasn't it Elie Mystal who said that you don't have a job until you're sitting at your desk? One of the few right things he's ever said). In this economy, you're taking a pretty big risk blowing a $10,000 loan on a trip, especially with another $200,000 hanging in the balance.

That aside, there will be plenty of times to have nice trips as an associate. I've already taken a few long extravagant vacations myself. And I have more than a hundred thousand sitting in the bank.

But poor me

If I don't end up starting, I'll be so totally fucked whether I owe 200K or 210K.

[Old Gregg]

dude, in 20 years you won't remember whether you had to pinch pennies to pay your rent, but you will still remember a great trip.

...but in two years if you're laid off, you will still remember that "great trip" and really begin to wish you'd used your money wisely. Or heck, if you don't even end up starting, you'll regret it even more (wasn't it Elie Mystal who said that you don't have a job until you're sitting at your desk? One of the few right things he's ever said). In this economy, you're taking a pretty big risk blowing a $10,000 loan on a trip, especially with another $200,000 hanging in the balance.

That aside, there will be plenty of times to have nice trips as an associate. I've already taken a few long extravagant vacations myself. And I have more than a hundred thousand sitting in the bank.

But poor me

If I don't end up starting, I'll be so totally fucked whether I owe 200K or 210K.

You'll be fucked, but every penny will count. Far more likely, though, is getting laid off rather than not starting at all. $10,000 can plant the seeds for a nice emergency saving stash.

[Anonymous User]

Consider this an opportunity. You won't have this much free time with a job waiting for you at the end for a long long time. Take the $$$ and travel for a couple of months. Avoid Europe, too expensive. Go to Central/South America, South East Asia etc... places where you can live for $10-$20 a day and still see and experience some amazing shit. Given the choice, I would push my start date to November just to have 2.5 months of this... After that, I think I might be ready to foreswear taking overseas vacations for a couple of years without feeling like I am missing out. That's one of my biggest fears re: biglaw. I love traveling. What's the point of making all this $$$ if I can never really go on anything longer than a weekend trip?

That aside, there will be plenty of times to have nice trips as an associate. I've already taken a few long extravagant vacations myself.

Really? I would hear more of this: how often, how long, and how long have you been an associate? Did you work while you were away? How often did you check your email? Etc... Thanks. (Sorry I hope I am not hijacking the thread.)