Dallas Market Forum

[Cubyfan21]

I am just wondering if anyone has advice on what type of grades one would need from MVPB to get into the Dallas market, with basically no ties except for friends. My wife and I do intend on living there long term, so any advice.

[kalvano]

I guess it depends on what your target is. Are you looking for a medium-size firm or a Biglaw firm? Dallas has a different firm setup than most cities. There are a lot more midsize type of firms.

[Cubyfan21]

OP here, and I would like to do transactional work in big law, but I am happy as long as I can make 90K.

[kalvano]

That's going to put you in the lower class of Biglaw firms. Think Winstead, that sort of firm. I know that for SMU, those firms tend to want around top 20% - 25% at a minimum, so I'd imagine that goes up to top 1/3, maybe top 50% from MVPB.

[Richie Tenenbaum]

Grades probably won't be the issue. Coming up with a believable story on why you want to live and work in Dallas with only loose ties will be the issue. I'm assuming 1L--what are you doing this summer? It would have been preferable to try and shoot for a firm or judicial internship in Dallas, but most of those are probably filled up.

[Richie Tenenbaum]

That's going to put you in the lower class of Biglaw firms. Think Winstead, that sort of firm. I know that for SMU, those firms tend to want around top 20% - 25% at a minimum, so I'd imagine that goes up to top 1/3, maybe top 50% from MVPB.

Even ITE, top 1/3 from MVP should competitive for the big three. I would imagine median (or even lower) would be fine for lower-tier firms. My prediction is that the problem for OP is going to be more about ties than grades.

[kalvano]

That's going to put you in the lower class of Biglaw firms. Think Winstead, that sort of firm. I know that for SMU, those firms tend to want around top 20% - 25% at a minimum, so I'd imagine that goes up to top 1/3, maybe top 50% from MVPB.

Even ITE, top 1/3 from MVP should competitive for the big three. I would imagine median (or even lower) would be fine for lower-tier firms. My prediction is that the problem for OP is going to be more about ties than grades.

That's perhaps true. I don't know what grades would be necessary, I'm just making a (barely) educated guess that if lower-tier Biglaw such as Winstead want top 25% from SMU, then top 50% from a T-14 would be acceptable.

The only reason I say a place like Winstead is because they do a lot of transactional work, they have smaller billables than other firms, but they pay less. OP said minimum $90K, which puts him above the smaller / midsized firms that are typically in the $70K to $80K range. I was assuming that since he said $90K, he'd be OK with not having $160K and the work that goes with it.

[Richie Tenenbaum]

That's going to put you in the lower class of Biglaw firms. Think Winstead, that sort of firm. I know that for SMU, those firms tend to want around top 20% - 25% at a minimum, so I'd imagine that goes up to top 1/3, maybe top 50% from MVPB.

Even ITE, top 1/3 from MVP should competitive for the big three. I would imagine median (or even lower) would be fine for lower-tier firms. My prediction is that the problem for OP is going to be more about ties than grades.

That's perhaps true. I don't know what grades would be necessary, I'm just making a (barely) educated guess that if lower-tier Biglaw such as Winstead want top 25% from SMU, then top 50% from a T-14 would be acceptable.

The only reason I say a place like Winstead is because they do a lot of transactional work, they have smaller billables than other firms, but they pay less. OP said minimum $90K, which puts him above the smaller / midsized firms that are typically in the $70K to $80K range. I was assuming that since he said $90K, he'd be OK with not having $160K and the work that goes with it.

There are a decent number of firms well known for transactional work that don't care too much about grades that pay market. Andrews Kurth and Bracewell are the first that come to mind.

[de5igual]

I am just wondering if anyone has advice on what type of grades one would need from MVPB to get into the Dallas market, with basically no ties except for friends. My wife and I do intend on living there long term, so any advice.

Why do you want to be in Dallas? You're going to have to come up with something pretty damn convincing or else have stellar grades—even at MVP (not sure B is really in the same category when we're talking about Texas)

[Anonymous User]

From the GPA charts I was shown by career services here at UVA, I can tell you that you are going to need some stunningly high grades from UVA to land the big Dallas firms (Vinson, Fulbright, Baker Botts)--like 3.5 high. And that's not even taking into account ties.

I've heard Weil and Gibson Dunn have insanely high cutoffs in Dallas (3.6) but I'm not sure how accurate that is.

As someone mentioned though, Andrews Kurth and Bracewell are significantly more forgiving. I believe that both of them have something like a 3.2 average GPA at UVA. But again ties will be an issue.

[Cubyfan21]

Thanks for the advice. I visited Dallas over winter break, and really enjoyed my time there. I really like the cost of living, what seems to be a more family friendly market, and the fact that my wife and I have many close friends who now live there.

[kalvano]

Thanks for the advice. I visited Dallas over winter break, and really enjoyed my time there. I really like the cost of living, what seems to be a more family friendly market, and the fact that my wife and I have many close friends who now live there.

Not kidding here...you need to stay a bit in the summer before you decide Dallas is the place for you. Last summer it was over 100 almost 60 days in a row, and routinely hit 108-112. It will start in May and last until around October.

[Anonymous User]

Interested. I'm 0L at UVA and would love to return to Dallas and maybe Houston. Would being a previous in-state resident (although never lived there personally) and having father/brother living in Dallas area be sufficient ties?

[thisiswater]

Thanks for the advice. I visited Dallas over winter break, and really enjoyed my time there. I really like the cost of living, what seems to be a more family friendly market, and the fact that my wife and I have many close friends who now live there.

Not kidding here...you need to stay a bit in the summer before you decide Dallas is the place for you. Last summer it was over 100 almost 60 days in a row, and routinely hit 108-112. It will start in May and last until around October.

plus the humidity....god the humidity.
OP, it honestly feels like you're swimming when you walk outside some days in the summer

[Anonymous User]

I have a similar question to the UVA OL above, but I'm in a slightly different position: HYS, projected medianish grades (could be a little lower, maybe a little higher, but median is a good guess), with in-state connections but no specific ties to Dallas. I'm mostly wondering how people who have tried to sell "Texas ties" have done when their ties are to one of the other major cities (e.g., Dallas, when all ties are to San Antonio, Houston, and/or Austin). Is a substantial amount of time in-state prior to law school usually sufficient, even if it isn't market specific?

[Richie Tenenbaum]

plus the humidity....god the humidity.
OP, it honestly feels like you're swimming when you walk outside some days in the summer

While there may be the occasional humid day, Dallas is way more dry heat than humidity. Houston is horrible when it comes to humidity. Austin is humid, but not as bad as Houston (but worse than Dallas).

I have a similar question to the UVA OL above, but I'm in a slightly different position: HYS, projected medianish grades (could be a little lower, maybe a little higher, but median is a good guess), with in-state connections but no specific ties to Dallas. I'm mostly wondering how people who have tried to sell "Texas ties" have done when their ties are to one of the other major cities (e.g., Dallas, when all ties are to San Antonio, Houston, and/or Austin). Is a substantial amount of time in-state prior to law school usually sufficient, even if it isn't market specific?

My experience: I'm a UT student with significant ties to DFW and a small connection to Houston. Houston firms didn't really question my ties at all (which surprised me) and a few Dallas firms seemed initially skeptical about my ties to Dallas (which surprised me). But take that experience with a grain of salt since it's a small sample size. But I would really focus on city specific ties in interviews (especially for Dallas and Austin).

[Stanford4Me]

OP, feel free to PM me. I'll be working in Dallas coming from NYU.

Also, I don't ever remember it routinely hitting 112 over the summer, though we were on some kind of streak for days above 103. Thank God for AC.