White Collar Criminal Defense

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dixiecupdrinking
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Re: White Collar Criminal Defense

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:14 pm

This thread seems like the blind leading the blind. No white collar defense in NYC? Associates don't get to work on criminal matters? Biglaw firms don't have white collar clients? So what do all these white collar groups do:

Litigation: White-Collar Crime & Government Investigations: New York
Band 1
Davis Polk & Wardwell LLP
Debevoise & Plimpton LLP
Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison LLP
Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom LLP & Affiliates
Sullivan & Cromwell LLP
Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen & Katz

Band 2
Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP
Cooley LLP
Dechert LLP
Fried, Frank, Harris, Shriver & Jacobson LLP
Kramer Levin Naftalis & Frankel LLP

Band 3
Allen & Overy LLP
Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer US LLP

Band 4
Covington & Burling LLP
Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher LLP
Latham & Watkins LLP
Linklaters

keg411
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Re: White Collare Criminal Defense

Postby keg411 » Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:31 pm

Cinderella wrote:School/grades for biglaw --> Biglaw --> AUSA --> private practice (solo --> firm; or just to the firm). I doubt you'd need DC biglaw, but it would probably be really beneficial. I also can't imagine a biglaw firm would let you touch a criminal case as an associate.


This is super-credited. My cousin does White Collar Crim Defense in a secondary market.
He went: HLS --> Arnold & Porter (DC) --> AUSA (secondary market) --> White Collar Crim Defense Partner (same secondary market; BigLaw firm)

chiwachiwa
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Re: White Collar Criminal Defense

Postby chiwachiwa » Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:12 pm

Reprisal wrote:
Tangerine Gleam wrote:How do we know that they're criminals until they've been defended, bro?


http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=145834

Paichka wrote:My crim pro professor gave us an interesting statistic the other day:

One recent year, there were 76,827 defendants in federal criminal court; of those, 66,103 pled guilty or nolo contendere. Of those that went to trial:
- 2,851 were convicted
□ Within that 2,851, 2,259 were convicted by juries, 592 by bench trial
- 700+ had cases dismissed
- 723 were acquitted


Err on the side of right.

Beyond the fact that this is a crap argument, your math doesn't even add up.
To the OP: the answer is either get into a practice group that does white collar defense (hard to do) or work as an AUSA for a few years then lateral to a white collar practice (easier to do once you're an AUSA, not so easy to get an AUSA job).

EvelynS
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Re: White Collar Criminal Defense

Postby EvelynS » Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:27 pm

dixiecupdrinking wrote:This thread seems like the blind leading the blind. No white collar defense in NYC? Associates don't get to work on criminal matters? Biglaw firms don't have white collar clients? So what do all these white collar groups do:

Litigation: White-Collar Crime & Government Investigations: New York
Band 1
Davis Polk & Wardwell LLP
Debevoise & Plimpton LLP
Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison LLP
Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom LLP & Affiliates
Sullivan & Cromwell LLP
Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen & Katz

Band 2
Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP
Cooley LLP
Dechert LLP
Fried, Frank, Harris, Shriver & Jacobson LLP
Kramer Levin Naftalis & Frankel LLP

Band 3
Allen & Overy LLP
Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer US LLP

Band 4
Covington & Burling LLP
Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher LLP
Latham & Watkins LLP
Linklaters


+1

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Detrox
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Re: White Collar Criminal Defense

Postby Detrox » Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:22 pm

EvelynS wrote:
dixiecupdrinking wrote:This thread seems like the blind leading the blind. No white collar defense in NYC? Associates don't get to work on criminal matters? Biglaw firms don't have white collar clients? So what do all these white collar groups do:

Litigation: White-Collar Crime & Government Investigations: New York
Band 1
Davis Polk & Wardwell LLP
Debevoise & Plimpton LLP
Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison LLP
Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom LLP & Affiliates
Sullivan & Cromwell LLP
Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen & Katz

Band 2
Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP
Cooley LLP
Dechert LLP
Fried, Frank, Harris, Shriver & Jacobson LLP
Kramer Levin Naftalis & Frankel LLP

Band 3
Allen & Overy LLP
Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer US LLP

Band 4
Covington & Burling LLP
Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher LLP
Latham & Watkins LLP
Linklaters


+1


+2, although I kinda said this earlier in the thread in a lazier manner.

Bigben32
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Re: White Collar Criminal Defense

Postby Bigben32 » Sat Mar 17, 2012 12:13 am

I am a 1l who will be working for a firm in the midwest largely specializing in white collar crim defense. Will also be interning with USAO during school next year. Two partners at the firm are former US attorneys. They went the big law to USAO route. However, most of the associates come from local TTT and work in white collar crime area at the firm. Point is, there is more than just the super prestigious path to work in this area, if you are in the Midwest at least.

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kalvano
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Re: White Collar Criminal Defense

Postby kalvano » Sat Mar 17, 2012 12:21 am

All "white collar" defense basically means is that you're defending people who haven't committed violent crimes. Tax work is probably 80% of it, with mail / wire fraud, SEC violations, etc. Just no murder, armed robbery, etc.

It's not some magical and mysterious thing that's impossible to get. NYC Biglaw firms are hard to get anyway; a lot happen to have a white collar section because it's the section that businesses and corporations need. But tons of smaller firms do it as well. If some local business owner gets hit with tax fraud stuff, he's not going to be able to pay for a Biglaw firm to defend him.
Last edited by kalvano on Sat Mar 17, 2012 12:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

rad lulz
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Re: White Collar Criminal Defense

Postby rad lulz » Sat Mar 17, 2012 12:23 am

.
Last edited by rad lulz on Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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kalvano
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Re: White Collar Criminal Defense

Postby kalvano » Sat Mar 17, 2012 12:26 am

rad lulz wrote:
kalvano wrote:All "white collar" defense basically means is that you're defending people who haven't committed violent crimes. Tax work is probably 80% of it, with mail / wire fraud, SEC violations, etc. Just no murder, armed robbery, etc.

Also no drugs


On the part of the defendants at least.

The Duck
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Re: White Collar Criminal Defense

Postby The Duck » Sat Mar 17, 2012 3:04 pm

kalvano wrote:All "white collar" defense basically means is that you're defending people who haven't committed violent crimes. Tax work is probably 80% of it, with mail / wire fraud, SEC violations, etc. Just no murder, armed robbery, etc.

It's not some magical and mysterious thing that's impossible to get. NYC Biglaw firms are hard to get anyway; a lot happen to have a white collar section because it's the section that businesses and corporations need. But tons of smaller firms do it as well. If some local business owner gets hit with tax fraud stuff, he's not going to be able to pay for a Biglaw firm to defend him.


Lol, tax isnt big at least not in big firms. FCPA is the majority of what they do.

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kalvano
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Re: White Collar Criminal Defense

Postby kalvano » Sat Mar 17, 2012 5:48 pm

The Duck wrote:
kalvano wrote:All "white collar" defense basically means is that you're defending people who haven't committed violent crimes. Tax work is probably 80% of it, with mail / wire fraud, SEC violations, etc. Just no murder, armed robbery, etc.

It's not some magical and mysterious thing that's impossible to get. NYC Biglaw firms are hard to get anyway; a lot happen to have a white collar section because it's the section that businesses and corporations need. But tons of smaller firms do it as well. If some local business owner gets hit with tax fraud stuff, he's not going to be able to pay for a Biglaw firm to defend him.


Lol, tax isnt big at least not in big firms. FCPA is the majority of what they do.



While normally I would just accept what you say because you're obviously an expert, a close family friend is head of the white collar section of a local medium / large firm, and when I asked him about it, he said that the vast majority of his work focuses on securities and tax fraud. Pardon me if I believe him over you.

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Old Gregg
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Re: White Collar Criminal Defense

Postby Old Gregg » Sat Mar 17, 2012 5:53 pm

This thread seems like the blind leading the blind. No white collar defense in NYC? Associates don't get to work on criminal matters? Biglaw firms don't have white collar clients? So what do all these white collar groups do:


Internal company compliance work. Of all the litigation projects I've seen, WCC has the most and worst doc review of them all. I'm sure the kiddos at Debevoise absolutely adored their Siemens work. Real trial experience there.

Anonymous User
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Re: White Collar Criminal Defense

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Mar 17, 2012 6:12 pm

Fresh Prince wrote:
This thread seems like the blind leading the blind. No white collar defense in NYC? Associates don't get to work on criminal matters? Biglaw firms don't have white collar clients? So what do all these white collar groups do:


Internal company compliance work. Of all the litigation projects I've seen, WCC has the most and worst doc review of them all. I'm sure the kiddos at Debevoise absolutely adored their Siemens work. Real trial experience there.


I did some WCC work during my SA, and while there is a lot of doc review, it was pretty interesting, as doc review goes. While typical doc review involves looking for privileged documents, or something mindless like that, WCC doc review has you looking for evidence of the alleged crime. Simply because it required a little bit more legal thinking when going through each document, it was better than I expected.

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Old Gregg
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Re: White Collar Criminal Defense

Postby Old Gregg » Sat Mar 17, 2012 6:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fresh Prince wrote:
This thread seems like the blind leading the blind. No white collar defense in NYC? Associates don't get to work on criminal matters? Biglaw firms don't have white collar clients? So what do all these white collar groups do:


Internal company compliance work. Of all the litigation projects I've seen, WCC has the most and worst doc review of them all. I'm sure the kiddos at Debevoise absolutely adored their Siemens work. Real trial experience there.


I did some WCC work during my SA, and while there is a lot of doc review, it was pretty interesting, as doc review goes. While typical doc review involves looking for privileged documents, or something mindless like that, WCC doc review has you looking for evidence of the alleged crime. Simply because it required a little bit more legal thinking when going through each document, it was better than I expected.


I don't care about doc review either way. Kind of find it relaxing. But you have to realize that you're talking to a lot of wanna-be future David Boises in this thread.

The Duck
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Re: White Collar Criminal Defense

Postby The Duck » Sat Mar 17, 2012 6:46 pm

kalvano wrote:
The Duck wrote:
kalvano wrote:All "white collar" defense basically means is that you're defending people who haven't committed violent crimes. Tax work is probably 80% of it, with mail / wire fraud, SEC violations, etc. Just no murder, armed robbery, etc.

It's not some magical and mysterious thing that's impossible to get. NYC Biglaw firms are hard to get anyway; a lot happen to have a white collar section because it's the section that businesses and corporations need. But tons of smaller firms do it as well. If some local business owner gets hit with tax fraud stuff, he's not going to be able to pay for a Biglaw firm to defend him.


Lol, tax isnt big at least not in big firms. FCPA is the majority of what they do.



While normally I would just accept what you say because you're obviously an expert, a close family friend is head of the white collar section of a local medium / large firm, and when I asked him about it, he said that the vast majority of his work focuses on securities and tax fraud. Pardon me if I believe him over you.


He's the exception then, maybe his firm specializes in tax. I was also referring to BigLaw...if its a local firm then what I said doesn't apply. I only know what I was told during all of my callbacks that focused on WCC...at BigLaw firms.

BigLaw firms represent primarily corporations and the majority of tax fraud cases involve individuals. Your friend obviously defends traditional white collar offenses, but that's not the kind of offense BigLaw firms find themselves involved in often.There aren't a lot of tax fraud cases that would justify the expense of a BigLaw firm defending them. Nor would a local firm have the resources to conduct international investigations to determine if a company violated the FCPA. Plus, those are investigated by the DOJ and so the big firms located in DC are better positioned to negotiate sanctions which almost always happens.

OP seemed to be focusing more on BigLaw firms. Not local law firms that defend all of the traditional white collar offenses. That's like saying my friend is a real estate lawyer and says he spends all of his days filling out consumer mortgage applications. So, clearly real estate lawyers at big firms do the same thing... There are gradations in the kind of work firms will work on. Different level firms will be dealing with different things.

Don't let my join date full you, this is a start over account. I'm not a noob. So if you don't mind, I'll believe the 60+ BigLaw WCC defense attorneys I've discussed this with and not you.
Last edited by The Duck on Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:11 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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Old Gregg
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Re: White Collar Criminal Defense

Postby Old Gregg » Sat Mar 17, 2012 6:53 pm

The Duck is right. And FCPA is going to have an increasingly larger role in WCC practices for big firms in the days to come.

EvelynS
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Re: White Collar Criminal Defense

Postby EvelynS » Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:40 pm

Any suggestions on what type of classes to take during law school to make yourself a stronger candidate for SA in WCC department?

rad lulz
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Re: White Collar Criminal Defense

Postby rad lulz » Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:42 pm

.
Last edited by rad lulz on Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Detrox
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Re: White Collar Criminal Defense

Postby Detrox » Sun Mar 18, 2012 10:04 pm

rad lulz wrote:
EvelynS wrote:Any suggestions on what type of classes to take during law school to make yourself a stronger candidate for SA in WCC department?

You only have 1L grades when you apply for SAs, so the answer is "likely nothing" unless your school has electives. If they have electives, there may be a white collar elective. I'd try to do the summer in a USAO or something for 1L summer.


Interviewers still see your 2L classes as they are registered per 2l Fall. Business Crime, Corporations, Crim Pro, Evidence, will all be good classes for WCC.

sadsituationJD
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Re: White Collar Criminal Defense

Postby sadsituationJD » Sun Mar 18, 2012 10:14 pm

If some local business owner gets hit with tax fraud stuff, he's not going to be able to pay for a Biglaw firm to defend him.


He likely isn't going to pay (or pay much) for ANY firm to defend him, esp. if it's a Federal beef (the Feds have a 95%+ conviction rate). Mostly you'll get a couple grand to do some "hand holding" and maybe buy him a carton of Luckies to take with him to the pokey. If the FBI comes knocking on your door, prison is in your future, period. It's likely that by the time they come, his accounts will be frozen and best he can do is pawn a Rolex or his wife's shoe collection to pay a token amount for you to wrangle a decent plea deal. Trials today are mostly drama/fodder for TV sitcoms, not real-life events.

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kalvano
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Re: White Collar Criminal Defense

Postby kalvano » Sun Mar 18, 2012 10:15 pm

SMU offers a specific White Collar Crime course, check and see if your school does.

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20160810
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Re: White Collar Criminal Defense

Postby 20160810 » Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:47 am

kalvano wrote:SMU offers a specific White Collar Crime course, check and see if your school does.

Davis has one, I took it, and I loved it. Highly recommend taking this.




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