White Collar Criminal Defense

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Anonymous User
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White Collar Criminal Defense

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:32 pm

1L here trying to figure out how to get into this field - I've looked at some of the law firms I'm interested in and they are either really hard to get a job with, or just don't have a big white collar defense department. (Covington, WilliamsConnolly, WilmerHale) - so, what other law firms, not as prestigious as those, have good white collar defense practices ? and how do I go about to get into this field? Thanks for the advice.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Wed Mar 14, 2012 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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spleenworship
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Re: White Collare Criminal Defense

Postby spleenworship » Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:45 pm

Isn't the answer to this "Biglaw" ?

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20130312
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Re: White Collare Criminal Defense

Postby 20130312 » Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:White Collare Criminal Defense


Dude, collar*

EvelynS
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Re: White Collare Criminal Defense

Postby EvelynS » Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:55 pm

Start with getting litigation experience first. I think you probably noticed that most W/C defense attorneys are former prosecutors. It is good to start with government agencies like DA offices, SEC, FINRA, but these are also hard to get into. Good luck!

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Detrox
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Re: White Collare Criminal Defense

Postby Detrox » Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:30 pm

Sullivan & Cromwell, Debevoise & Plimpton...nvm, just go read chambers...

The Duck
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Re: White Collare Criminal Defense

Postby The Duck » Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:57 pm

You need the grades and school for BigLaw in DC. That's is where virtually all firms have their WC practice...for obvious reasons.

EvelynS
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Re: White Collare Criminal Defense

Postby EvelynS » Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:02 pm

I think NYC has even more W/C criminal defense firms due to Wall Street :)

The Duck
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Re: White Collare Criminal Defense

Postby The Duck » Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:37 pm

EvelynS wrote:I think NYC has even more W/C criminal defense firms due to Wall Street :)


As far as I know, those are run from DC as that's where the DOJ is and they are routinely negotiating with main justice for these kinds of cases. I'm sure there are some WC people there but at all of the firms I interviewed with that group was HQ'd in DC.

Cinderella
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Re: White Collare Criminal Defense

Postby Cinderella » Wed Mar 14, 2012 6:11 pm

School/grades for biglaw --> Biglaw --> AUSA --> private practice (solo --> firm; or just to the firm). I doubt you'd need DC biglaw, but it would probably be really beneficial. I also can't imagine a biglaw firm would let you touch a criminal case as an associate.

Or, you can just be a regular private criminal defense attorney, get a good rep, and let the politicians come to you when they get bribed.

Anonymous User
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Re: White Collar Criminal Defense

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Mar 14, 2012 6:54 pm

So do you have to go to Big Law before doing AUSA, or do people go straight to AUSA?

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kalvano
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Re: White Collar Criminal Defense

Postby kalvano » Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:So do you have to go to Big Law before doing AUSA, or do people go straight to AUSA?


AUSA doesn't hire straight out of law school save through DOJ Honors, which can be harder to get than prestigious Biglaw.

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NoleinNY
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Re: White Collar Criminal Defense

Postby NoleinNY » Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:53 pm

kalvano wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:So do you have to go to Big Law before doing AUSA, or do people go straight to AUSA?


AUSA doesn't hire straight out of law school save through DOJ Honors, which can be harder to get than prestigious Biglaw.

This, although biglaw -> ausa isn't necessarily the only way. I met an ausa who work usao his 2L, ADA as a new lawyer, and back to usao

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kalvano
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Re: White Collar Criminal Defense

Postby kalvano » Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:02 pm

NoleinNY wrote:
kalvano wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:So do you have to go to Big Law before doing AUSA, or do people go straight to AUSA?


AUSA doesn't hire straight out of law school save through DOJ Honors, which can be harder to get than prestigious Biglaw.

This, although biglaw -> ausa isn't necessarily the only way. I met an ausa who work usao his 2L, ADA as a new lawyer, and back to usao


I'm interning at the USAO right now, and it seems split about 60/40 between former Biglaw people and former ADA's. Both will get you into the USAO, and both have their strengths and weaknesses. If you want to get looked at quicker, ADA is the best route since they get substantive experience much faster.

Anonymous User
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Re: White Collar Criminal Defense

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:17 pm

What kind of law do most people who went the route of BigLaw do? Just straight up civil litigation?

Also, dumb question, but do you apply to DOJ honors as a 2L or a 3L?

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spleenworship
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Re: White Collar Criminal Defense

Postby spleenworship » Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:30 pm

NoleinNY wrote:This, although biglaw -> ausa isn't necessarily the only way. I met an ausa who work usao his 2L, ADA as a new lawyer, and back to usao


That might be my plan.

Reprisal
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Re: White Collar Criminal Defense

Postby Reprisal » Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:50 pm

Please don't defend white collar criminals.

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Tangerine Gleam
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Re: White Collar Criminal Defense

Postby Tangerine Gleam » Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:28 pm

Reprisal wrote:Please don't defend white collar criminals.


How do we know that they're criminals until they've been defended, bro?

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bk1
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Re: White Collar Criminal Defense

Postby bk1 » Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:32 pm

.

Reprisal
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Re: White Collar Criminal Defense

Postby Reprisal » Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:13 pm

Tangerine Gleam wrote:How do we know that they're criminals until they've been defended, bro?


viewtopic.php?f=3&t=145834

Paichka wrote:My crim pro professor gave us an interesting statistic the other day:

One recent year, there were 76,827 defendants in federal criminal court; of those, 66,103 pled guilty or nolo contendere. Of those that went to trial:
- 2,851 were convicted
□ Within that 2,851, 2,259 were convicted by juries, 592 by bench trial
- 700+ had cases dismissed
- 723 were acquitted


Err on the side of right.

rad lulz
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Re: White Collar Criminal Defense

Postby rad lulz » Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:29 pm

.
Last edited by rad lulz on Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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bk1
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Re: White Collar Criminal Defense

Postby bk1 » Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:43 am

rad lulz wrote:
bk1 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What kind of law do most people who went the route of BigLaw do? Just straight up civil litigation?

Also, dumb question, but do you apply to DOJ honors as a 2L or a 3L?


2L

3L bro, or after clerkship. See some other eligibility requirements.

http://www.justice.gov/careers/legal/entry-eligibility.html#a1


My bad, I thought he meant SLIP.

impressivekowalski
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Re: White Collar Criminal Defense

Postby impressivekowalski » Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:47 am

I believe making your mark as an AUSA is TCR if you want to practice within a big firm, and still you will need to graduate from a top school for them to take you seriously. Keep in mind the majority of "White Collar Criminal Defense" attorneys at those firms don't really spend much of their time doing that kind of work. They have the requisite experience, but really the big firms don't attract white collar criminal defendants who were not previously associated with the firm - so the defense attorneys are only there to protect members of their corporate clients when they mess up. If you really want to do criminal defense work and get paid for it then you need to make a name for yourself and set up your own shop IMO.

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20160810
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Re: White Collar Criminal Defense

Postby 20160810 » Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:54 am

Reprisal wrote:Please don't defend white collar criminals.

This should be good.

The Duck
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Re: White Collar Criminal Defense

Postby The Duck » Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:49 am

impressivekowalski wrote:I believe making your mark as an AUSA is TCR if you want to practice within a big firm, and still you will need to graduate from a top school for them to take you seriously. Keep in mind the majority of "White Collar Criminal Defense" attorneys at those firms don't really spend much of their time doing that kind of work. They have the requisite experience, but really the big firms don't attract white collar criminal defendants who were not previously associated with the firm - so the defense attorneys are only there to protect members of their corporate clients when they mess up. If you really want to do criminal defense work and get paid for it then you need to make a name for yourself and set up your own shop IMO.


This isn't true. They do a lot of FCPA compliance work, including investigations,establishing peremptory programs, educating client's employees, etc. They also do investigations after major workplace accidents, etc to determine liability. This may not be what you think of as defense work but in the white collar context it's a large part of the industry.

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Tangerine Gleam
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Re: White Collar Criminal Defense

Postby Tangerine Gleam » Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:53 am

Reprisal wrote:
Tangerine Gleam wrote:How do we know that they're criminals until they've been defended, bro?


viewtopic.php?f=3&t=145834

Paichka wrote:My crim pro professor gave us an interesting statistic the other day:

One recent year, there were 76,827 defendants in federal criminal court; of those, 66,103 pled guilty or nolo contendere. Of those that went to trial:
- 2,851 were convicted
□ Within that 2,851, 2,259 were convicted by juries, 592 by bench trial
- 700+ had cases dismissed
- 723 were acquitted


Err on the side of right.


By this logic, one shouldn't work in criminal defense, period, because most criminal defendants are guilty. But if anything, given these statistics, shouldn't we want to make every effort to defend against a state which is very successful in securing convictions? How else do you those 1000+ people mentioned above got acquitted or had their cases dismissed?

OP, if anything, people like this should motivate you to *definitely* work in criminal defense. Lots of black-and-white, right-and-wrong hard chargers out there.




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