Employed at Graduation: Easy to Game?

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2LLLL
Posts: 249
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:38 pm

Re: Employed at Graduation: Easy to Game?

Postby 2LLLL » Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:05 pm


More fundraising from alumni and donors would be at the top of my list, followed by better resource allocation, especially for schools that advertise how much they care about public interest. And I may be a heretic for saying this, but hiring more practicing attorneys to teach-- I have loved every class I've had with a practicing adjunct. It's also an awesome resource for students when practicing adjuncts recommend students they've worked with for jobs and internships. Schools that really value PI should craft fellowships for new graduates, raising more money and shifting expenditures in ways that directly benefits students and new grads.



I wholeheartedly agree. I got my dream job in large part because of a recommendation from an adjunct who is a well-respected partner at the top firm in my state. If the rec had been from some professor who went to Y, clerked for a year, and then ran into academia, it wouldn't have had 1% of the effect. A friend of mine was fast-tracked to the callback stage at the local DA's office after an adjunct who sits on the SSC wrote a letter for him.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273601
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Employed at Graduation: Easy to Game?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:19 pm

keg411 wrote:I think the student-funded fellowships are good for actual unemployed grads to the extent that the old adage "it's easier to get a job if you have a job" is 100% true for pretty much every field. However, I disagree that temporary employment like this should count as "employed" for USNWR/statistical purposes and I pretty much agree that it's disingenuous at best and lying at worst. Temporary positions and certain types of non-legal positions should 100% not count as "employed".


Wholeheartedly agree. It's fine if they're necessary and it's the way it has to be, and even better if it helps us, but it needs to be acknowledged and endorsed by the schools so that everyone knows what's going on and it's not a badge of shame and something the school doesn't like to discuss.

Lord Randolph McDuff
Posts: 1587
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:37 pm

Re: Employed at Graduation: Easy to Game?

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:32 pm

OperaSoprano wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:It seems like most of these schools are reporting that almost 100 percent of their class filled out the post-grad survey. How is that even possible? Or am I reading the stats incorrectly?


At our school, we must report or no graduation tickets.


I know this is how it is at CU as well.

So 57% of our class, down from 70%, were employed at graduation. I know they are planning on getting a fellowship thingie up and running, but don't have it yet. So could they have gamed the 70% or the 57%? Can you get a job at Macdonalds during the end of your 3L and count that as employed? Better, who in the hell would do that?


Random:
Had an alum come and speak at our school this morning. Guy was a managing partner at a big law firm in Dallas, and he said that usually stuff: would not have gotten into CU Law today, would not have gotten his big law job with the grades he had at CU Law today, had to be in the top 5% of a T25 school for them to even look at your resume or had to "know a managing partner." Exception was the local school (SMU). Not in the T25 but would still look at the very top of the class. I'm assuming they would go deeper than 5% at UT or other schools but he didn't say anything about that. Also top 25 schools was his distinction, never said T14 FWIW.

Super depressing. Not even sure why career services invited him in... I think his kid was in town to look at undergrad schools and he just had some time to kill. Basic message was that literally no one could get a job at his firm from the law school he was speaking at?

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2LsAPlenty
Posts: 156
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:20 am

Re: Employed at Graduation: Easy to Game?

Postby 2LsAPlenty » Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:55 pm

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:
OperaSoprano wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:It seems like most of these schools are reporting that almost 100 percent of their class filled out the post-grad survey. How is that even possible? Or am I reading the stats incorrectly?


At our school, we must report or no graduation tickets.


I know this is how it is at CU as well.

So 57% of our class, down from 70%, were employed at graduation. I know they are planning on getting a fellowship thingie up and running, but don't have it yet. So could they have gamed the 70% or the 57%? Can you get a job at Macdonalds during the end of your 3L and count that as employed? Better, who in the hell would do that?



Nice!
Random:
Had an alum come and speak at our school this morning. Guy was a managing partner at a big law firm in Dallas, and he said that usually stuff: would not have gotten into CU Law today, would not have gotten his big law job with the grades he had at CU Law today, had to be in the top 5% of a T25 school for them to even look at your resume or had to "know a managing partner." Exception was the local school (SMU). Not in the T25 but would still look at the very top of the class. I'm assuming they would go deeper than 5% at UT or other schools but he didn't say anything about that. Also top 25 schools was his distinction, never said T14 FWIW.

Super depressing. Not even sure why career services invited him in... I think his kid was in town to look at undergrad schools and he just had some time to kill. Basic message was that literally no one could get a job at his firm from the law school he was speaking at?

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sunynp
Posts: 1899
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 2:06 pm

Re: Employed at Graduation: Easy to Game?

Postby sunynp » Fri Mar 16, 2012 1:19 pm

2LsAPlenty wrote:
Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:
OperaSoprano wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:It seems like most of these schools are reporting that almost 100 percent of their class filled out the post-grad survey. How is that even possible? Or am I reading the stats incorrectly?


At our school, we must report or no graduation tickets.


I know this is how it is at CU as well.

So 57% of our class, down from 70%, were employed at graduation. I know they are planning on getting a fellowship thingie up and running, but don't have it yet. So could they have gamed the 70% or the 57%? Can you get a job at Macdonalds during the end of your 3L and count that as employed? Better, who in the hell would do that?



Nice!
Random:
Had an alum come and speak at our school this morning. Guy was a managing partner at a big law firm in Dallas, and he said that usually stuff: would not have gotten into CU Law today, would not have gotten his big law job with the grades he had at CU Law today, had to be in the top 5% of a T25 school for them to even look at your resume or had to "know a managing partner." Exception was the local school (SMU). Not in the T25 but would still look at the very top of the class. I'm assuming they would go deeper than 5% at UT or other schools but he didn't say anything about that. Also top 25 schools was his distinction, never said T14 FWIW.

Super depressing. Not even sure why career services invited him in... I think his kid was in town to look at undergrad schools and he just had some time to kill. Basic message was that literally no one could get a job at his firm from the law school he was speaking at?


Maybe they wanted you to hear the real situation from a real hiring partner? Maybe he is a well-known alumni who wanted to help the students know the job market they are facing?

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deebs
Posts: 221
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:52 pm

Re: Employed at Graduation: Easy to Game?

Postby deebs » Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:11 pm

The guy was subtly telling you that if you're not in the top 5%, and you went to law school to try to get rich, then to get out now and do something else




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