Law Review AND Moot Court

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Anonymous User
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Law Review AND Moot Court

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:26 am

Perhaps this should go into the law students forum, but there are people in my section who know me on here and I don't want to out my grades. I'm currently a 1L at a TTT in the Midwest. The top 10% grade onto law review. Right now I am eligible to grade on but with an entire semester of exams left, I'm not counting my chickens before they hatch.

The moot court write-on competition is in the upcoming weeks. I cannot decide whether I want to do it. From what I hear it's a huge time commitment for both the write-on and for moot court itself.

I know that if you grade onto law review, it's a terrible idea to turn it down and you're basically obligated to accept the invitation. But, since I haven't officially graded onto it yet, should I at least do the write on for moot court?

Second, and more pertinent to legal employment, say I stay in the top 10% and grade on to law review, should I do both moot court and law review next year? Is the time commitment of both worth it to put on my resume, or is law review enough?

LawIdiot86
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Re: Law Review AND Moot Court

Postby LawIdiot86 » Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:43 am

Anonymous User wrote:Perhaps this should go into the law students forum, but there are people in my section who know me on here and I don't want to out my grades. I'm currently a 1L at a TTT in the Midwest. The top 10% grade onto law review. Right now I am eligible to grade on but with an entire semester of exams left, I'm not counting my chickens before they hatch.

The moot court write-on competition is in the upcoming weeks. I cannot decide whether I want to do it. From what I hear it's a huge time commitment for both the write-on and for moot court itself.

I know that if you grade onto law review, it's a terrible idea to turn it down and you're basically obligated to accept the invitation. But, since I haven't officially graded onto it yet, should I at least do the write on for moot court?

Second, and more pertinent to legal employment, say I stay in the top 10% and grade on to law review, should I do both moot court and law review next year? Is the time commitment of both worth it to put on my resume, or is law review enough?


If you can get on law review, via grades or write-on, it is essential you do that. If you can get on moot court while maintaining you grades, it is very important that you do that. If it is possible for you to get on both, while maintaining you grades, even at the expense of your health, you must do that.

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jessuf
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Re: Law Review AND Moot Court

Postby jessuf » Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:59 am

Law review is obviously way more important than moot court. I think moot court or trial team are only good for people who don't get law review. I'd rather spend my time focusing on grades, OCI, law review, note/comment, and maybe an e-board position. Otherwise, employers will be like, 'Wow. Congratulations on losing in the second round to another T3/T4 school in a useless international law moot court competition. I am so impressed."

WITH THAT SAID, you go to a T3. So maybe the combo is actually a plus at OCI?? I feel like T1/T2 schools see stuff like moot court and trial team as a joke and don't take it seriously, so the kinds of employers at OCI at those schools could care less about moot court.

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Cupidity
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Re: Law Review AND Moot Court

Postby Cupidity » Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:05 am

Moot Court generally doesn't ramp up until after hiring season. Many enter the initial rounds during OCI and drop out before the work gets serious if they score a job.

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Re: Law Review AND Moot Court

Postby traydeuce » Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:18 am

Jessuf wrote:Law review is obviously way more important than moot court. I think moot court or trial team are only good for people who don't get law review. I'd rather spend my time focusing on grades, OCI, law review, note/comment, and maybe an e-board position. Otherwise, employers will be like, 'Wow. Congratulations on losing in the second round to another T3/T4 school in a useless international law moot court competition. I am so impressed."

WITH THAT SAID, you go to a T3. So maybe the combo is actually a plus at OCI?? I feel like T1/T2 schools see stuff like moot court and trial team as a joke and don't take it seriously, so the kinds of employers at OCI at those schools could care less about moot court.


Agreed.

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Re: Law Review AND Moot Court

Postby LawIdiot86 » Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:34 am

Jessuf wrote:Law review is obviously way more important than moot court. I think moot court or trial team are only good for people who don't get law review. I'd rather spend my time focusing on grades, OCI, law review, note/comment, and maybe an e-board position. Otherwise, employers will be like, 'Wow. Congratulations on losing in the second round to another T3/T4 school in a useless international law moot court competition. I am so impressed."

WITH THAT SAID, you go to a T3. So maybe the combo is actually a plus at OCI?? I feel like T1/T2 schools see stuff like moot court and trial team as a joke and don't take it seriously, so the kinds of employers at OCI at those schools could care less about moot court.


The main reason I think highly of moot court is after having done it and finding out the "prize" at the competition I participated in was a one year associate position with a particular V100 (kid from my school won if the year before). Also, I believe it is a field to fill in for OSCAR clerkships. Journal is way way more important, but if OP is going for tick the box jobs, it is a box to tick off. Also, if OP is going for shitlaw jobs, I could imagine a lawyer being impressed that he could someday speak in court, but I grant that is a tiny tiny factor.

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Re: Law Review AND Moot Court

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:30 am

OP here. Thanks for the replies so far. Most of them have been directed towards the resume/employment side of the question, which is understandable given the forum I posted this in.

But what about the workload next year? I mean, 1L already kind of stresses me out. I can't imagine having my 2L classes, OCI interviews/callbacks, law review, AND moot court. Is that doable? Would I have a life at all?

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Re: Law Review AND Moot Court

Postby Citizen Genet » Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:57 am

Anonymous User wrote:OP here. Thanks for the replies so far. Most of them have been directed towards the resume/employment side of the question, which is understandable given the forum I posted this in.

But what about the workload next year? I mean, 1L already kind of stresses me out. I can't imagine having my 2L classes, OCI interviews/callbacks, law review, AND moot court. Is that doable? Would I have a life at all?


A lot of this will be school-dependent. Some Moot Court teams require little participation other than writing your brief and some preliminary prep for tournaments. Other schools have mandatory pre-tournament panels - I've heard as many as 8 - that students have to participate in. If you're in one of the former schools, doing both is very manageable. If you're team is one of the later, doing both will become quite difficult. Better to talk to people at your school about the time commitments for both.

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Re: Law Review AND Moot Court

Postby LawIdiot86 » Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP here. Thanks for the replies so far. Most of them have been directed towards the resume/employment side of the question, which is understandable given the forum I posted this in.

But what about the workload next year? I mean, 1L already kind of stresses me out. I can't imagine having my 2L classes, OCI interviews/callbacks, law review, AND moot court. Is that doable? Would I have a life at all?

First, 2L classes are easier than 1L classes.

Second, no you won't have a life, but all those things are doable. I gather you're aiming for big/midlaw or clerking. Under the legal profession's screwed up model, this is the only opportunity you will have to get those kinds of jobs. If you actually want that kind of a job, you can't allow yourself to have a life in law school because 100% of your effort has to go to things to make you more marketable.

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Re: Law Review AND Moot Court

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:48 am

I'm EIC of a secondary journal and did moot court (at a school with a very well-known moot court program) this year. It was a lot of work, yes, but for both, the work comes in waves--a few weeks of non-stop work followed by nothing for weeks. Granted, your LR and MC might be different, but I know it is very doable. I'm not sure if your school gives credit, but I got 2 units for writing 12 pages of a brief then practicing for a few hours every day for about a month. The rest of the semester was smooth sailing.

That said, I think MC is kind of a waste of time, even more so than journal. If you're interested in why, read this (LinkRemoved). TL;DR: MC is so unrealistic and unlike real appellate work that it's almost harmful instead of beneficial.

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Re: Law Review AND Moot Court

Postby phonepro » Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:20 pm

Im at a TT and did both, and it is HELL. I had/have no life, and was stressed out and doing massive amount of work nonstop (also did an externship). With that said, you have to do it if you make both. If you are at a TTT theres no questioning whether to do both.

With limited jobs available to you, you must do everything you can to separate yourself. I got a very good firm job, and while im sure moot court wasnt the main reason, who knows if it made a difference. Any additional line on your resume that someone else from a TT or TTT wont have is necessary in this job market.

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Re: Law Review AND Moot Court

Postby r6_philly » Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:31 pm

Sorry to jack, so is there any value to do moot court at a T14? Alongside a secondary journal?

LawIdiot86
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Re: Law Review AND Moot Court

Postby LawIdiot86 » Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:58 pm

r6_philly wrote:Sorry to jack, so is there any value to do moot court at a T14? Alongside a secondary journal?


Yes, it's a tick the box on OSCAR and it came up in some of my interviews in response to "so what do you like most about law school?" or "so what is this (school name org) thing involve?"

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Re: Law Review AND Moot Court

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:39 pm

You can try to win moot court. Or you can try not to fail. 99% won't win, so figure out how to game it for the line on the resume. Wrote my brief in one night, argued for my 2 hours in the first round. Got the P.

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Re: Law Review AND Moot Court

Postby Glock » Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:58 pm

Flagship Law review >>>>>>>>>>>>> secondary journal >>>>>> winning a moot court competition >>>> being on a moot court honor board >>>>> other clubs.


Actually winning a competition looks good and gives you a slight edge over similarly ranked people.

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Re: Law Review AND Moot Court

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:06 pm

Glock wrote:Flagship Law review >>>>>>>>>>>>> secondary journal >>>>>> winning a moot court competition >>>> being on a moot court honor board >>>>> other clubs.


Actually winning a competition looks good and gives you a slight edge over similarly ranked people.


I go to Hastings (#1 moot court team) and I can assure you that winning a competition, much less being on moot court, does not matter whatsoever in terms of job prospects.

That said, I think it's a good skill to learn.

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Re: Law Review AND Moot Court

Postby Glock » Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
I go to Hastings (#1 moot court team) and I can assure you that winning a competition, much less being on moot court, does not matter whatsoever in terms of job prospects.

That said, I think it's a good skill to learn.



I disagree. It's a great way to connect with people who did moot court themselves. It isn't nearly as valuable as grades or law review, but it can and does help. More than a few employers even list it as desirable.

Anecdote- I got an interview with a district judge for an internship because he "wants to help out aspiring trial attorneys" and clearly i had potential as a competition winner. That turned into a recommendation to his old firm and a good offer. Do you think winning one didn't matter? My other offer (market paying botique) was also majorly influenced by moot court experience.

"Moot court doesn't matter" is a party line on here that isn't true. It slightly matters and makes you slightly more attractive than someone w/ the same grades.

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Re: Law Review AND Moot Court

Postby Emma. » Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Glock wrote:Flagship Law review >>>>>>>>>>>>> secondary journal >>>>>> winning a moot court competition >>>> being on a moot court honor board >>>>> other clubs.


Actually winning a competition looks good and gives you a slight edge over similarly ranked people.


I go to Hastings (#1 moot court team) and I can assure you that winning a competition, much less being on moot court, does not matter whatsoever in terms of job prospects.

That said, I think it's a good skill to learn.


TBF, Law Review isn't much help either: 71 U Chi L Rev 1721

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Re: Law Review AND Moot Court

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Perhaps this should go into the law students forum, but there are people in my section who know me on here and I don't want to out my grades. I'm currently a 1L at a TTT in the Midwest. The top 10% grade onto law review. Right now I am eligible to grade on but with an entire semester of exams left, I'm not counting my chickens before they hatch.

The moot court write-on competition is in the upcoming weeks. I cannot decide whether I want to do it. From what I hear it's a huge time commitment for both the write-on and for moot court itself.

I know that if you grade onto law review, it's a terrible idea to turn it down and you're basically obligated to accept the invitation. But, since I haven't officially graded onto it yet, should I at least do the write on for moot court?

Second, and more pertinent to legal employment, say I stay in the top 10% and grade on to law review, should I do both moot court and law review next year? Is the time commitment of both worth it to put on my resume, or is law review enough?


Similar boat (as far as reason for anon post). I'm at a TT, top 10%. I did LR, Moot Ct, Mock Trial, and I would advise you to do all of the above, ITE. It made me extremely competitive (multiple NLJ250 offers - some from schools that didn't do OCI at my school) at OCI. And many of my interviewers said that I made it in the door b/c I maintained grades while getting the benefits of the other ish.

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Re: Law Review AND Moot Court

Postby ilovesf » Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:16 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Glock wrote:Flagship Law review >>>>>>>>>>>>> secondary journal >>>>>> winning a moot court competition >>>> being on a moot court honor board >>>>> other clubs.


Actually winning a competition looks good and gives you a slight edge over similarly ranked people.


I go to Hastings (#1 moot court team) and I can assure you that winning a competition, much less being on moot court, does not matter whatsoever in terms of job prospects.

That said, I think it's a good skill to learn.

Thanks for the insight. I'm thinking of trying out for moot court and a journal.. I want to be on moot court if I don't get law review though. I wish I could find out about LR before moot court, ugh.

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Re: Law Review AND Moot Court

Postby de5igual » Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:25 am

Emma. wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Glock wrote:Flagship Law review >>>>>>>>>>>>> secondary journal >>>>>> winning a moot court competition >>>> being on a moot court honor board >>>>> other clubs.


Actually winning a competition looks good and gives you a slight edge over similarly ranked people.


I go to Hastings (#1 moot court team) and I can assure you that winning a competition, much less being on moot court, does not matter whatsoever in terms of job prospects.

That said, I think it's a good skill to learn.


TBF, Law Review isn't much help either: 71 U Chi L Rev 1721


except if you want to get a clerkship or go into academia. i just skimmed the first paragraph, but it seemed like job satisfaction was partially based on salary, which because of lockstep, doesn't really distinguish between elite and non-elite biglaw firms.

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Re: Law Review AND Moot Court

Postby in2win » Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:30 am

so moot court sounds like something i will hate and i already know i'm not going to want to do it. i really was planning on focusing much more on the writing/reading aspect of law school. is it going to hurt me if i decide to pass on moot court when i enter law school? i'm not necessarily aiming for biglaw. i would prefer something like a midlaw type job at a smaller firm,

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Re: Law Review AND Moot Court

Postby ilovesf » Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:32 am

in2win wrote:so moot court sounds like something i will hate and i already know i'm not going to want to do it. i really was planning on focusing much more on the writing/reading aspect of law school. is it going to hurt me if i decide to pass on moot court when i enter law school? i'm not necessarily aiming for biglaw. i would prefer something like a midlaw type job at a smaller firm,

no

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Re: Law Review AND Moot Court

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:34 am

f0bolous wrote:
Emma. wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Glock wrote:Flagship Law review >>>>>>>>>>>>> secondary journal >>>>>> winning a moot court competition >>>> being on a moot court honor board >>>>> other clubs.


Actually winning a competition looks good and gives you a slight edge over similarly ranked people.


I go to Hastings (#1 moot court team) and I can assure you that winning a competition, much less being on moot court, does not matter whatsoever in terms of job prospects.

That said, I think it's a good skill to learn.


TBF, Law Review isn't much help either: 71 U Chi L Rev 1721


From the article you cited. "Another study of UCLA law students indicated that law review members had greater success in obtaining law firm callback interviews in comparison to their nonmember classmates. The average UCLA Law Review member received a callback interview after 42.5 percent of his or her interviews, while nonmembers enjoyed a 23.7 percent callback rate."

And for those of us at TT or below, from anecdotal experience, I would say that disparity is even greater. LR can move mountains for some in terms of employment prospects.

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ilovesf
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Re: Law Review AND Moot Court

Postby ilovesf » Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:40 am

Anonymous User wrote:
From the article you cited. "Another study of UCLA law students indicated that law review members had greater success in obtaining law firm callback interviews in comparison to their nonmember classmates. The average UCLA Law Review member received a callback interview after 42.5 percent of his or her interviews, while nonmembers enjoyed a 23.7 percent callback rate."

And for those of us at TT or below, from anecdotal experience, I would say that disparity is even greater. LR can move mountains for some in terms of employment prospects.

Well probably also because people on LR have higher GPAs. It probably isn't just about LR.




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