Quinn Emanuel's new recruiting model

[sundance95]

Can we get some details as to why those who think Quinn's culture is insufferable feel that way? It would be more helpful to those of us who will be going through OGI next August than generalities.

[Anonymous User]

I feel like I need to defend QE because no one else is.

I will not be working there, but I interviewed with them (including a callback and a few dinners) and I was incredibly impressed. It was a tough decision in the end, but I really thought that everyone I met at QE was much more intelligent, engaging, and interested in their work than associates at most of the dozen firms I did CB's with. They also have a very good reputation in my major-market city. They're supposed to be a pain in the ass to litigate against, but most lawyers I spoke with during my decision process conceded that they do very good work.

I think it's one of the best firms to get started in for a litigation career. You will be a very marketable lateral candidate or clerkship candidate coming out of a few years at QE. It has a sweatshop reputation, though...but I'd much rather end up at QE than the other big lit sweatshops like Kirkland and Skadden.

[goodolgil]

Some people are really getting butthurt over shitty advertising... If you think this is bad, watch TV at 2am.

And some people compare apples and oranges.

If you want law firms to be held to the same standards as companies running infomercials at 2am, then good for you. But I don't.

I guess it's not quite as tacky as ads like this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1Qk6QPzuIc

But close

[run26.2]

I feel like I need to defend QE because no one else is.

I will not be working there, but I interviewed with them (including a callback and a few dinners) and I was incredibly impressed. It was a tough decision in the end, but I really thought that everyone I met at QE was much more intelligent, engaging, and interested in their work than associates at most of the dozen firms I did CB's with. They also have a very good reputation in my major-market city. They're supposed to be a pain in the ass to litigate against, but most lawyers I spoke with during my decision process conceded that they do very good work.

I think it's one of the best firms to get started in for a litigation career. You will be a very marketable lateral candidate or clerkship candidate coming out of a few years at QE. It has a sweatshop reputation, though...but I'd much rather end up at QE than the other big lit sweatshops like Kirkland and Skadden.

I appreciate this post and I agree with most of what you have said. Though the associates did seem to work very hard there, they all uniformly raved about the work they were doing. If someone wants a litigation career, it is a great firm to start out at.

Btw - Mind pm'g where you ended up choosing? Thanks!

[Anonymous User]

I am SA'ing at a Quinn office this summer. Similar to the previous poster, I found the Quinn associates and partners to be intelligent, engaged, and down-to-earth. Ironically, the Quinn lawyers seemed less boastful and arrogant than the lawyers at some of the other firms I interviewed at.

Still, I find Quinn's marketing off-putting. In fact, I almost didn't even bid on Quinn last year because I was turned off by their aggressive, over-the-top image. When I interviewed there last summer, some of the lawyers volunteered that the firm's marketing and branding was silly and stupid. I wonder if it actually helps them attract stronger associate candidates. Boies Schiller—a similar litigation firm in many respects—seems to do alright without all of the shameless self-promotion.

So, if you're a 1L who is interested in working at a big litigation firm, my advice is to give Quinn a chance even if you're put off by the firm's public image. And if you work at Quinn and are somehow responsible for its marketing, my advice is that you tone things down a bit.

[Old Gregg]

I think it's one of the best firms to get started in for a litigation career. You will be a very marketable lateral candidate or clerkship candidate coming out of a few years at QE. It has a sweatshop reputation, though...but I'd much rather end up at QE than the other big lit sweatshops like Kirkland and Skadden.

ROFL

You don't even work there. How would you know???

[Old Gregg]

Can we get some details as to why those who think Quinn's culture is insufferable feel that way? It would be more helpful to those of us who will be going through OGI next August than generalities.

It is insufferable. There's no bigger consensus in big law that Quinn is an objectively shitty place to work at. Every associate I know there hates it. On top of that, the firm is super cheap (and this should be reflected by their recent "above market" bonuses).

Anyways, I have no trouble with people going there. But I do have a duty to warn. From there, it's all your choice.

[Old Gregg]

If you want law firms to be held to the same standards as companies running infomercials at 2am, then good for you. But I don't.

What "standards" are you holding biglaw up to? I think the idea of standards went out the window when partners began making $4mm on average per year while paying their associates $20,000 extra for billing 3,000 hours a year (Quinn).

[Anonymous User]

I think it's one of the best firms to get started in for a litigation career. You will be a very marketable lateral candidate or clerkship candidate coming out of a few years at QE. It has a sweatshop reputation, though...but I'd much rather end up at QE than the other big lit sweatshops like Kirkland and Skadden.

ROFL

You don't even work there. How would you know???

Uh....do you work there? It doesn't sound like it. Why are your anecdotes/impressions more worthy than those of the poster you mocked?

[Old Gregg]

I think it's one of the best firms to get started in for a litigation career. You will be a very marketable lateral candidate or clerkship candidate coming out of a few years at QE. It has a sweatshop reputation, though...but I'd much rather end up at QE than the other big lit sweatshops like Kirkland and Skadden.

ROFL

You don't even work there. How would you know???

Uh....do you work there? It doesn't sound like it. Why are your anecdotes/impressions more worthy than those of the poster you mocked?

Because I actually work at a firm and have friends who work at Quinn who confide in me their experiences (and their communications are probably more valid, since they're not trying to recruit me...)

Firms are a lot more similar to each other than you think. To think Quinn provides better litigation experience than Skadden, K&E, etc. is ludicrous (hint: it's all pretty much the same).


There's actually more reason to think the opposite. From what I know from my friends, Quinn doesn't even have litigation support (anyone who works at a big firm knows what this is, and how essential it is to the practice of a litigator).

[Anonymous User]

Can you explain what litigation support is for those of us who aren't In the Know?

While I found this humorous article http://abovethelaw.com/2007/08/an-updat ... pport-guy/

it doesn't tell me exactly what it is.

I assume from my limited experience that these are people that might proofread briefs, help collect paperwork?

[Anonymous User]

Can you explain what litigation support is for those of us who aren't In the Know?

While I found this humorous article http://abovethelaw.com/2007/08/an-updat ... pport-guy/

it doesn't tell me exactly what it is.

I assume from my limited experience that these are people that might proofread briefs, help collect paperwork?

It's basically the vast technological, logistical, and personnel infrastructure that supports the litigation group.

Wonder why Quinn's profits are so high? They have low overhead. They have low overhead because they're cheap as shit. WLRK is something to be marveled at. They pay sky-high bonuses and still win in PPP. I'm sure if a lot of other firms were as cheap as Quinn (i.e., they eliminated in-house catering, lit support, creature comforts, good benefits, etc.), they'd have similar PPPs.

[Anonymous User]

Can you explain what litigation support is for those of us who aren't In the Know?

While I found this humorous article http://abovethelaw.com/2007/08/an-updat ... pport-guy/

it doesn't tell me exactly what it is.

I assume from my limited experience that these are people that might proofread briefs, help collect paperwork?

It's basically the vast technological, logistical, and personnel infrastructure that supports the litigation group.

Wonder why Quinn's profits are so high? They have low overhead. They have low overhead because they're cheap as shit. WLRK is something to be marveled at. They pay sky-high bonuses and still win in PPP. I'm sure if a lot of other firms were as cheap as Quinn (i.e., they eliminated in-house catering, lit support, creature comforts, good benefits, etc.), they'd have similar PPPs.

You are a fool in many ways. Here are some of them: all biglaw firms are interested in making high profits. That is the reason for their existence; take, for example, the recent lack of spring bonuses - is Quinn the only firm withholding them? No. The biglaw model is one that leverages the work of relatively cheap associates to make money for the relatively expensive partners. OMM, Skadden, SullCrom, etc. are not below Quinn in PPP because of their good hearts. You're right that Quinn's comparatively smaller reliance on in-house support is one of the reasons they are at the top of the PPP heap, but the right word is "smart," not "cheap." They contract out litigation suport and services like doc review because they can find a way for it to get done at a better price thanks to new technological developments and recent innovative companies.

Anyways, the PRIMARY reason Quinn's PPP > your firm's is their adoption of contingency fee plaintniffs cases. They are market leaders in adopting new fee structures with their clients and are one of few big law firms that engages heavily in plaintiffs class action cases. They bet more aggressively than the other firms and, so far, they have been winning.

As for the marketing (full disclosure: I'll be summering there) I personally enjoy it. I think it's kind of funny and it is the same sort of mentality I adopt amongst my friends. I'll finally add that I'm not a huge fanboy in general and I remain incredibly skeptical about the biglaw model generally (and let's face it, QE is biglaw) - I'm just not sure I could be happy working that much. We'll see.

[keg411]

Plaintiff's contingency fee cases have been around for a LONG time. Quinn didn't make them up. The reason contingency fees aren't common in BigLaw is because most of the firms do defense work. But it's hardly a "new and innovative" fee structure.

[Tangerine Gleam]

Plaintiff's contingency fee cases have been around for a LONG time. Quinn didn't make them up. The reason contingency fees aren't common in BigLaw is because most of the firms do defense work. But it's hardly a "new and innovative" fee structure.

While I'm definitely not sure, I was under the impression that Quinn actually does have some somewhat innovative fee structures (as far as allowing plaintiff clients to elect between contingency fees, set-price packages, or hourly billing...I think?). I don't believe the above poster was suggesting that contingency fees are a new idea, but they're certainly not common among huge, nationwide law firms. So when compared to other V100 firms (their competitors when it comes to recruiting partners and young associates), Quinn does offer something a little different. While other V100 firms do plaintiff's work and contingency fees as well (like Boies), my impression is that it's pretty rare.

[Anonymous User]

Plaintiff's contingency fee cases have been around for a LONG time. Quinn didn't make them up. The reason contingency fees aren't common in BigLaw is because most of the firms do defense work. But it's hardly a "new and innovative" fee structure.

While I'm definitely not sure, I was under the impression that Quinn actually does have some somewhat innovative fee structures (as far as allowing plaintiff clients to elect between contingency fees, set-price packages, or hourly billing...I think?). I don't believe the above poster was suggesting that contingency fees are a new idea, but they're certainly not common among huge, nationwide law firms. So when compared to other V100 firms (their competitors when it comes to recruiting partners and young associates), Quinn does offer something a little different. While other V100 firms do plaintiff's work and contingency fees as well (like Boies), my impression is that it's pretty rare.

Thanks, yeah, you made most of the points I would have in response. And even if contingency fee structures as an idea aren't new generally, they ARE new to biglaw, which is what I was saying.

[Anonymous User]

Quinn tries so hard to be cool that they end up coming off not cool.

[LawIdiot86]

Quinn tries so hard to be cool that they end up coming off not cool.

True. Listing their bonus amount and PPP compared to Cravath's and then mentioning they wear shorts to work would have come off so much better.

[Anonymous User]

QE is the perfect firm for some, and a terrible firm for others. Either you're a no-nonsense, type-A, win-at-all-costs litigator, or you're not. Interview with the firm, and if they give you a CB (which tends to lead to an offer), you'll know whether or not the firm is right for you. Just some advice from a person who turned down QE for a more "typical" biglaw firm.

[Renzo]

mentioning they wear shorts to work.

Ugh. I knew I had made a good choice to decline their callback when I heard they gave the SA's sandals. I do not want to see my coworker's disgusting hobbit feet.

[Anonymous User]

You are a fool in many ways. Here are some of them: all biglaw firms are interested in making high profits. That is the reason for their existence; take, for example, the recent lack of spring bonuses - is Quinn the only firm withholding them? No. The biglaw model is one that leverages the work of relatively cheap associates to make money for the relatively expensive partners. OMM, Skadden, SullCrom, etc. are not below Quinn in PPP because of their good hearts. You're right that Quinn's comparatively smaller reliance on in-house support is one of the reasons they are at the top of the PPP heap, but the right word is "smart," not "cheap." They contract out litigation suport and services like doc review because they can find a way for it to get done at a better price thanks to new technological developments and recent innovative companies.

Anyways, the PRIMARY reason Quinn's PPP > your firm's is their adoption of contingency fee plaintniffs cases. They are market leaders in adopting new fee structures with their clients and are one of few big law firms that engages heavily in plaintiffs class action cases. They bet more aggressively than the other firms and, so far, they have been winning.

As for the marketing (full disclosure: I'll be summering there) I personally enjoy it. I think it's kind of funny and it is the same sort of mentality I adopt amongst my friends. I'll finally add that I'm not a huge fanboy in general and I remain incredibly skeptical about the biglaw model generally (and let's face it, QE is biglaw) - I'm just not sure I could be happy working that much. We'll see.

(1) I never said other firms have lower PPPs because of their "good hearts." It's debatable whether lacking lit support, etc. is actually good for associates and the firm in general.
(2) My firm has a contingency fee structure (and one of the highest PPPs), so no it's not something Quinn has an advantage in doing. And no, Quinn hasn't been winning that much compared to other litigation firms. You just hear about it more because you follow your firm like a tool since you're working there.

But I'll go on to my biggest point:

You need to start thinking about yourself and stop thinking about the firm. As a law student going into Quinn, you probably think it's such a prestigious litigation firm with high PPP and a don't give a shit attitude about stuff, especially in the "innovative" things like contracting out litigation support. But when you're a third year associate, doing doc review at 2am and just receiving news that you're being paid fuck-all above market for billing 3,000 hours that year, you won't give a shit about the firm's PPP, you won't give a shit that the firm contracted out its lower level staffing, you won't give a shit about the firm's "innovative structure," all you will feel is the metaphorical dick pulsating in your ass. That's when I expect to see your resume on my desk. And that's why I continue to see Quinn resumes come across my desk. It's not because they're getting laid off. It's because they hate it there and it finally took them a few years of working there to realize that all the prestige isn't worth it, and they're really just getting screwed.

But I know where you're coming from. You're still in law school. Enjoy the summer (and I'm sure it'll be great--no sarcasm), just start noting the ways the firm is cheap between when you accept your offer and when you start.

Edit: Mods, please don't out this post. It's very clear from the rest of my posts where I work. If it's too rude/vulgar, I'm happy to edit my post or just stop responding in this thread. Really, I'm just trying to do this guy a favor.

[johndhi]

interesting thread to see opinions on QE... I saw that ATL ad myself the other day too heh

[Anonymous User]

(1) I never said other firms have lower PPPs because of their "good hearts." It's debatable whether lacking lit support, etc. is actually good for associates and the firm in general.
(2) My firm has a contingency fee structure (and one of the highest PPPs), so no it's not something Quinn has an advantage in doing. And no, Quinn hasn't been winning that much compared to other litigation firms. You just hear about it more because you follow your firm like a tool since you're working there.

But I'll go on to my biggest point:

You need to start thinking about yourself and stop thinking about the firm. As a law student going into Quinn, you probably think it's such a prestigious litigation firm with high PPP and a don't give a shit attitude about stuff, especially in the "innovative" things like contracting out litigation support. But when you're a third year associate, doing doc review at 2am and just receiving news that you're being paid fuck-all above market for billing 3,000 hours that year, you won't give a shit about the firm's PPP, you won't give a shit that the firm contracted out its lower level staffing, you won't give a shit about the firm's "innovative structure," all you will feel is the metaphorical dick pulsating in your ass. That's when I expect to see your resume on my desk. And that's why I continue to see Quinn resumes come across my desk. It's not because they're getting laid off. It's because they hate it there and it finally took them a few years of working there to realize that all the prestige isn't worth it, and they're really just getting screwed.

But I know where you're coming from. You're still in law school. Enjoy the summer (and I'm sure it'll be great--no sarcasm), just start noting the ways the firm is cheap between when you accept your offer and when you start.

Edit: Mods, please don't out this post. It's very clear from the rest of my posts where I work. If it's too rude/vulgar, I'm happy to edit my post or just stop responding in this thread. Really, I'm just trying to do this guy a favor.

I appreciate that you're giving me this information and telling me your opinion. I think it's undeniable that Quinn has been winning a lot in contingency fee cases - see their PPP and interviews with the head guys saying things like, "we are this successful because of our alternative fee structures."

I think about myself quite a bit (maybe that's why they liked me?) and like I said before, I'm not sure I can handle biglaw hours - the entire system seems a little perverse to me. But if you're trying to tell me another firm is really any better, I have a hard time believing you. I chose Quinn because I expect I'd enjoy being around the people there more than any of the other firms from whom I got offers; I knew no matter where I went, I'd work too much and feel resentful about the toll it's taking on my personal life. Is there something else within the biglaw system? I can't imagine so. I figured I'd go to the top of the mountain (from my viewpoint), take a look around, and see if I want to jump onto the biglaw treadmill. Am I missing anything?

[Anonymous User]

"we are this successful because of our alternative fee structures."

LOL, everyone says that. Hahahaha my goodness.

[Anonymous User]

"we are this successful because of our alternative fee structures."

LOL, everyone says that. Hahahaha my goodness.

Um.... what? Why would, for example, Simpson Thacher's litigators say that, when they exclusively bill hourly? You guys who are trying to say Quinn isn't successful are in denial. Say they are assholes, but you don't get north of $4M/partner without winning when it means a lot of money for you.