North Carolina Big law Forum

[Anonymous User]

From Duke, UNC, Wake Forest, which is the best for North Carolina big law? How does middle of the pack at Duke compare with top 10% at the other two? I've heard (from a law prof at WFU) that Duke is pretty hated in the region, and for that reason it's not a good choice for people who want to stay in the area. Any thoughts from current NC Law students or recent graduates would be very welcome.

[LawIdiot86]

From Duke, UNC, Wake Forest, which is the best for North Carolina big law? How does middle of the pack at Duke compare with top 10% at the other two? I've heard (from a law prof at WFU) that Duke is pretty hated in the region, and for that reason it's not a good choice for people who want to stay in the area. Any thoughts from current NC law students or recent graduates would be very welcome.

Ahem, http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 3&t=178642.

[Anonymous User]

UNC student here top 10%, 3 biglaw 2L SA offers in Charlotte.

I've seen and talked with more UNC lawyers than both Duke and WFU placed together. I picked UNC over nearly full scholly at WFU and don't regret it at all.

[Stonewall]

Sweet bro. Odds are you are from NC and paylong like 10k at unc anyway so don't make it sound like you turned down a lot of cash cuz unc is that much better than wake. Cuz it's not.

[NinerFan]

If one is absolutely set on working in NC and gets into both UNC and Duke, it might make more sense to go to UNC and pay much less, especially since firms in NC are always skeptical of Duke students and their desire to live/remain in NC.

[Anonymous User]

I'm a Wake student from NC who chose it over UNC. If you look at the percentages, Wake actually places a higher percentage of its students in big law than UNC. If you definitely want to work in NC, I don't think you can really go wrong between the two. UNC has a larger alumni base, which is part of the reason that you see so many people talking about "everything is dominated by UNC . . ." NC isn't dominated by UNC by any means, but they'll definitely try to make you think that. It's part of the general "holier than thou" attitude you generally get from UNC and its students. In fact, that's one of the reasons I chose Wake instead. If you look at the UNC Students Taking Questions thread, you get some idea of that attitude in the first page or so.

Most Wake students are from out-of-state and return to their home state upon graduation. That means that you won't have as large of an alumni base here in NC as you would have at UNC. However, during OCI, I got all of the interviews I applied for with NC firms and got as many offers as I could handle out of that (around Top 10% with Law Review). In the overall scheme of things, Wake and UNC are really peer schools (regardless of whether UNC and its students want to admit that). I would go to whichever is cheaper after scholarships, and, if they're the same price (as they were in my case), go to Wake. You'll get more personalized attention, smaller classes, and all of the good stuff that comes along with that.

If you get into Duke, you'll definitely get into the other two, but almost certainly with scholarships. If you end up with scholarships at either UNC or Wake, I would take the money over Duke any day if you want to work in NC. If you think that you might want to work in NY or some other non-NC location after you graduate, Duke would be your best bet for that. I've heard (completely anecdotal) that firms prefer UNC and Wake grads over Duke grads because the top of the class at Duke generally tends to leave the state for places like NY, so the majority of people applying for NC jobs from there are middle or bottom of the class. If you do well there, I don't think it would be an issue for you.

TLDR: Between Wake/UNC, go with whichever is cheaper unless they're the same, in which case go with Wake (which is a personal preference). With Duke in the mix, I would still take the other two if they're cheaper and would go with Duke only if you get sizable scholarships and/or think you would want to work outside of NC.

[Anonymous User]

I'm a Wake student from NC who chose it over UNC. If you look at the percentages, Wake actually places a higher percentage of its students in big law than UNC. If you definitely want to work in NC, I don't think you can really go wrong between the two. UNC has a larger alumni base, which is part of the reason that you see so many people talking about "everything is dominated by UNC . . ." NC isn't dominated by UNC by any means, but they'll definitely try to make you think that. It's part of the general "holier than thou" attitude you generally get from UNC and its students. In fact, that's one of the reasons I chose Wake instead. If you look at the UNC Students Taking Questions thread, you get some idea of that attitude in the first page or so.

Most Wake students are from out-of-state and return to their home state upon graduation. That means that you won't have as large of an alumni base here in NC as you would have at UNC. However, during OCI, I got all of the interviews I applied for with NC firms and got as many offers as I could handle out of that (around Top 10% with Law Review). In the overall scheme of things, Wake and UNC are really peer schools (regardless of whether UNC and its students want to admit that). I would go to whichever is cheaper after scholarships, and, if they're the same price (as they were in my case), go to Wake. You'll get more personalized attention, smaller classes, and all of the good stuff that comes along with that.

If you get into Duke, you'll definitely get into the other two, but almost certainly with scholarships. If you end up with scholarships at either UNC or Wake, I would take the money over Duke any day if you want to work in NC. If you think that you might want to work in NY or some other non-NC location after you graduate, Duke would be your best bet for that. I've heard (completely anecdotal) that firms prefer UNC and Wake grads over Duke grads because the top of the class at Duke generally tends to leave the state for places like NY, so the majority of people applying for NC jobs from there are middle or bottom of the class. If you do well there, I don't think it would be an issue for you.

TLDR: Between Wake/UNC, go with whichever is cheaper unless they're the same, in which case go with Wake (which is a personal preference). With Duke in the mix, I would still take the other two if they're cheaper and would go with Duke only if you get sizable scholarships and/or think you would want to work outside of NC.

Thanks for the response. I got my aid package from UNC this morning: no $. So that is absolutely out. Wake offered $108,000 over three years, which is a ton of aid. Waiting to hear from Duke about their package. I expect the difference between attending Wake and Duke will be about $100k. My concern is that only about 10% of WFU students get big law, and everyone says if you are not in the top of 10% or 15% of the class the outcomes vary greatly, with a reasonable percentage unemployed or employed at salaries below 40k. Duke sends 40% to big law, but a number of other people do things like clerkships/academia, so there is not the same grade pressure to have a solid outcome. I've lived in NC for the last five years and have other ties to the area, so I think I can sell my desire to stay.

[Anonymous User]

I'm a Wake student from NC who chose it over UNC. If you look at the percentages, Wake actually places a higher percentage of its students in big law than UNC. If you definitely want to work in NC, I don't think you can really go wrong between the two. UNC has a larger alumni base, which is part of the reason that you see so many people talking about "everything is dominated by UNC . . ." NC isn't dominated by UNC by any means, but they'll definitely try to make you think that. It's part of the general "holier than thou" attitude you generally get from UNC and its students. In fact, that's one of the reasons I chose Wake instead. If you look at the UNC Students Taking Questions thread, you get some idea of that attitude in the first page or so.

Most Wake students are from out-of-state and return to their home state upon graduation. That means that you won't have as large of an alumni base here in NC as you would have at UNC. However, during OCI, I got all of the interviews I applied for with NC firms and got as many offers as I could handle out of that (around Top 10% with Law Review). In the overall scheme of things, Wake and UNC are really peer schools (regardless of whether UNC and its students want to admit that). I would go to whichever is cheaper after scholarships, and, if they're the same price (as they were in my case), go to Wake. You'll get more personalized attention, smaller classes, and all of the good stuff that comes along with that.

If you get into Duke, you'll definitely get into the other two, but almost certainly with scholarships. If you end up with scholarships at either UNC or Wake, I would take the money over Duke any day if you want to work in NC. If you think that you might want to work in NY or some other non-NC location after you graduate, Duke would be your best bet for that. I've heard (completely anecdotal) that firms prefer UNC and Wake grads over Duke grads because the top of the class at Duke generally tends to leave the state for places like NY, so the majority of people applying for NC jobs from there are middle or bottom of the class. If you do well there, I don't think it would be an issue for you.

TLDR: Between Wake/UNC, go with whichever is cheaper unless they're the same, in which case go with Wake (which is a personal preference). With Duke in the mix, I would still take the other two if they're cheaper and would go with Duke only if you get sizable scholarships and/or think you would want to work outside of NC.

Thanks for the response. I got my aid package from UNC this morning: no $. So that is absolutely out. Wake offered $108,000 over three years, which is a ton of aid. Waiting to hear from Duke about their package. I expect the difference between attending Wake and Duke will be about $100k.

That's pretty similar to what I ended up with coming in as well (from both UNC and Wake). Generally, UNC seems to limit aid to URMs or to people with numbers that could get them into Harvard anyway (or that's what it was last time I looked at LSN). Without $ from UNC, I'd definitely knock them out. It's not $75,000-100,000 better than Wake by any stretch of the imagination. Similarly, if you only want to work in NC, I don't think Duke is $100,000 better. There might be some argument if you wanted to go out of state, but, since you want to stay in NC, I'd go with Wake absent aid from Duke (and I wouldn't think twice).

[Anonymous User]

That's pretty similar to what I ended up with coming in as well (from both UNC and Wake). Generally, UNC seems to limit aid to URMs or to people with numbers that could get them into Harvard anyway (or that's what it was last time I looked at LSN). Without $ from UNC, I'd definitely knock them out. It's not $75,000-100,000 better than Wake by any stretch of the imagination. Similarly, if you only want to work in NC, I don't think Duke is $100,000 better. There might be some argument if you wanted to go out of state, but, since you want to stay in NC, I'd go with Wake absent aid from Duke (and I wouldn't think twice).

UNC student here---1st---UNC and Wake are essentially the same for big law (both VERY LOW)---actually wake may place like 1% more but that shouldnt be relevant to your decision. Between the two, dont pay extra money for either if your only goal is to go into big law. With all this said, you shouldnt go to either if you are serious about big law and just go to Duke. The fact is, you can still do well at both schools and strike out at oci in nc, because the legal market is pretty small over all in north carolina. They only place like 10-15% in big law. But this doesnt mean that this is the top 10 or 15%. Every year from both schools minorites in the top 3rd or so get big law b/c of diversity recruiting, so there are plenty of ppl in the top 15% at those schools who get no big law. Second, the reason most duke students dont do well in nc is because they have no ties to the state---you said you have ties---trust me, this will be enough-----top half at duke with ties and you are golden. last, for the love of christ, do not make your law school decision about working in a secondary market badly hurt by the recession---there are only so many jobs in nc.---go to duke, shoot for nc, bid on ny to fall back on.----when you miss nc from wake and unc, there is no other market to fall back on. (yes i know firms from dc and atlanta recruit from those schools but they are so few in number as to not count)

[Anonymous User]

This is just a random, semi-related story, but when I did 1L callbacks in Charlotte and Raleigh, I was told at one firm that everyone in the office watched UNC basketball games together and the only associate who watched Duke games was made fun of all the time. Also, when I told two partners over lunch that I had almost gone to Duke but didn't, they said "good choice." I don't even go to school in NC, and they seemed to think that was better than going to Duke.

[Anonymous User]

Duke student here. Most of what's been said in this thread is just bad advice. I'm an NC native who wants to stay in NC, and I chose Duke at near-sticker over sizable scholarships at unc/wake. In my experience, big firms in NC are in no way "skeptical" of duke students as long as they have ties to the state. If you want NC biglaw and have strong ties, I think Duke is a pretty easy choice. Most NC firms will reach pretty deep into the class at duke for someone with strong ties (think well below median). Whereas it is virtually impossible to get nc biglaw from unc/wake if you're below median, regardless of ties. For someone with no ties who is 100% sure she wants to work in NC, wake/unc is probably the better option. But if you have strong ties, go to Duke. All of the NC firms I interviewed with, without exception, noted that it was rare to see someone from Duke with strong ties who wants to stay in the state. In all of my interviews, this was discussed as something positive. With NC ties, you'll stand out at Duke and it will be much, much easier to get biglaw if your grades are less-than-stellar.

[TheFactor]

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[Anonymous User]

This is just a random, semi-related story, but when I did 1L callbacks in Charlotte and Raleigh, I was told at one firm that everyone in the office watched UNC basketball games together and the only associate who watched Duke games was made fun of all the time. Also, when I told two partners over lunch that I had almost gone to Duke but didn't, they said "good choice." I don't even go to school in NC, and they seemed to think that was better than going to Duke.

They said "good choice" because they don't like Duke basketball, bro. This notion that there is some widespread hatred of Duke law in NC is just false.

Exactly, it's laughable that people think that because some UNC grads made joking comments about not liking Duke, that these firms don't want to hire Duke grads.

IMO, you'd be nuts to turn down Duke for UNC/Wake, even with the scholarship. And I say that as someone who turned down a better school for more money myself and who went to UNC undergrad and has no ties to Duke. It's just way easier to get biglaw from Duke. True, there aren't as many Duke alumni at NC biglaw firms as there are UNC/Wake alumni, but that's not a reflection of how hard it is for Duke grads to get those jobs. Rather, it's a reflection of the fact that Duke is a national, T-14 law school with huge numbers of students that go places like New York and DC, and not NC. It's also a pretty small school to start with.

I summered at an NC biglaw firm last summer--there were basically the same number of people in my summer class from Duke, Wake, and UNC. However, while all of the UNC/Wake students were at the very top of their class (think top 10 or even top 5 students, not percent), the Duke students were not as high, and in some cases, not even on Law Review.

Think about it this way, at UNC/Wake, you will be competing for the NC firms at OCI with most if not all of the very top students in the class. At Duke, a large % of the top students will be gunning for NYC/DC and won't be interested in NC firms at all. Thus, there's just less competition for NC firms at Duke OCI. If you add NC connections on top of that, it will just be that much easier, as way fewer of your classmates will have NC ties.

Finally, if NC biglaw doesn't work out, Duke will leave you in a much better position for getting a job in some other market than will UNC/Wake. Overall, I think it is dumb to turn down any T14 for a significantly lower-ranked school, but it's especially dumb to do that when the T14 happens to be in the market where you want to practice.

[Gail]

I would pick Duke. More options and better options. This is coming from someone who is about to attend one of the other schools

[DallasCowboy]

I know of 2 people with no NC ties who accepted NC BigLaw from Duke for this summer. And I'm pretty sure middle of the pack or below. No telling how many others got offered.

[NinerFan]

I know of 2 people with no NC ties who accepted NC BigLaw from Duke for this summer. And I'm pretty sure middle of the pack or below. No telling how many others got offered.

That's surprising to hear. Perhaps they're just good BSers.

[Anonymous User]

That's surprising to hear. Perhaps they're just good BSers.

Always key. Oops didn't mean to anon.

[Anonymous User]

Duke student here.

Raleigh and Charlotte are also very different as markets. My impression is that North Carolina ties are very important for Raleigh firms whereas Charlotte firms are also happy to see ties to the south in general.

[FlamingDragon]

You would be literally insane to not go to Duke here. If you are about to pick Wake or UNC I suggest you reevaluate going to law school due to a lack of understanding about how the market works.

[Clemenceau]

You would be literally insane to not go to Duke here. If you are about to pick Wake or UNC I suggest you reevaluate going to law school due to a lack of understanding about how the market works.

Thread is roughly 38 months old.

I like the enthusiasm tho

[Garden District]

You would be literally insane to not go to Duke here. If you are about to pick Wake or UNC I suggest you reevaluate going to law school due to a lack of understanding about how the market works.

The guy you're talking to is probably graduating law school next week, hth

[J9ofDiamonds]

At duke. I know a couple of people around median who pulled Charlotte/Raleigh big law and anyone else who wanted it and had pretty good grades got it. I'd be shocked if anyone who wasn't well connected was in contention for nc big law if they are at Unc or wake and outside of the top 1/4

Edit: lolol old ass thread

[FlamingDragon]

At duke. I know a couple of people around median who pulled Charlotte/Raleigh big law and anyone else who wanted it and had pretty good grades got it. I'd be shocked if anyone who wasn't well connected was in contention for nc big law if they are at Unc or wake and outside of the top 1/4

Edit: lolol old ass thread

HAha damn sorry idk why this came to the top of my search. Hope that bro didn't ruin his life going to Wake when he could have been at Duke