where do you guys find information about bonuses? Is it purely word of mouth or are these published along with associate salaries?

Yeah this is true. I also recall that the list of incoming SAs at Cahill was striking for having a lot of people from lower-ranked schools. Maybe they are just unlike the big V10 NYC firms because they'd rather take someone from the top 10% at a place like William & Mary than the top 1/3 CCN people V10 firms offer en masse. I can't say that would be an irrational approach.

I was talking to a 2L that was supposed to summer at Dewey and she was completely blindsided by the cancellation of the summer program a couple weeks ago.

I asked her why she hadn't read about Dewey's problems on ATL or TLS and she said she had stopped reading both of those sites because she was a 2L with a secure job so she no longer cared.

Now she is scrambling to find an SA spot elsewhere but it does not look good for her.

This taught me two valuable lessons:
1. Our CSO sucks for not staying on top of this and warning her sooner.
2. I will never stop reading ATL and to a lesser extent TLS.

Agreed, although I'd bet the per hour margin is a lot less than one might guess. But personally I'm with you: I'd choose a firm that wanted to pay me more ahead of one that is ranked higher in a largely meaningless and NYC-centric ranking system, other factors being roughly equal. I can internalize more money much easier than 'prestige', but that's just me.

But I'd rank a firm that gets quality work, pays less per hour than market, but only requires 1800 billables (and means it) over either of the first two options.

Chasing after that is like chasing the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow... it doesn't exist.

I know.

This exists in a ton of secondary markets. Check the billable hour requirements for vault firms in secondary markets on NALP and then talk to associates at those satellite offices. They still get big clients and cases because they are being fed projects by the larger offices but they are only required to bill 1,800 vs 2,000+ in the major markets. The firm justifies this by paying them a lower base (ex: 120k) but the cost of living is usually much lower in the secondary market.

There are tradeoffs: worse exit options, not much room for growth or to make partner in the satellite office

But it all you care about is quality of life this is a much better option.

I interviewed widely across a pair of secondary markets (in addition to NYC). None of them had an 1800 hour requirement and "meant it" like sundance wanted. Maybe they had an unofficial 1800 hour mark, but the attorneys worked more than that and starting salaries ranged from $105k-$145k.

I think it depends on the market but I know of at least two where the situation I described exists.

I guess it could depend on the person too but the associates I talked to said billing right at or over 1800 was the norm. That still means working 45-50 hours a week (or more depending on the work flow) but that sure beats NYC big law hours.

Depends on market, firm, and practice area. I know a 7th year transactional associate in the main office of a NLJ250 firm (in a low COL city) who has yet to bill 1900 hours in a year. Just as billable hour "goals" or "requirements" are underestimates at NYC firms, they are often overestimates at secondary market firms.

Then maybe it's an individual market thing, because the requirements were definitely underestimates at the secondary market firms I interviewed with. These weren't super low COL places, but they were *definitely* lower than NYC.

Not that this is a big deal at all, but last year's class had 37, so the class has actually expanded from last year. So yeah, the "undersubscription" others were talking about isn't even really an issue.

While I agree the interview process at Cahill is different (to say the least) I don't think the place itself has a bad attitude or anything. It's basically like any other big NYC shop--lots of work, a bunch of great people, and a bunch of not so great people. The interview process is just different because it isn't like some firms where you are assured of getting an offer based only on your credentials and so the interview is just a formality. I don't think any of the summers I worked with walked away from their interviews thinking they got the job.

I think there are some very valid reasons for choosing to go to Cahill as well as a higher-ranked firm. If you don't like the type of work Cahill does or want greater name recognition, then it makes sense to choose a higher-ranked firm. That said, I like the type of work it does, the direction the firm is heading in, and the extra money, so I decided to go with Cahill (incoming associate).

I guess my contact at Cahill can't count, because we actually talked about this on Sunday which is the only reason I brought up the actual number.

But for serious, good luck there. It's not the easiest place in the world to work with the free market and all, but they pay you well, and they seem to be going in the right direction.

Sent you something.

ditto

Sent out an update. Thanks to those that sent me those e-mails! Very helpful for others.

I guess you guys have read about the mass layoff of associates in New York today They are going to layoff the other offices tomorrow I think. The 15th is the last day of work for them.

They get paid through the 15th and they get health insurance through the end of the month. I think their bonuses were deferred and will now never be paid.

it is such a terrible situation. I hope everyone finds something else.


http://abovethelaw.com/2012/05/dewey-kn ... -en-masse/

NYU OCS informed us today that all former Dewey SAs at NYU who sought full-summer private sector positions have found them.

Good. Hopefully the others will all follow.

If the e-mails the firm sends out are any indication, roughly 12 people out of 34 are still trying to find a job. The director of recruiting usually e-mails all of us job opportunities, but her last e-mail only went to about 12 people, so unless there were separate e-mails, I think things are looking up. The real question is how many of the people that found jobs have market-paying jobs, or whether they're banking on 3L OCI to pull through.

wow i'm pretty impressed that people have found jobs that quickly this late in the game, especially all the NYU dewey SAs (who wanted them...did anyone not?) getting private sector jobs

Sorry -- I've sent out an additional e-mail from a fellow SAer that has found employment. Further, if any of the NYU SAers have any opportunities that they passed up, please PLEASE consider sending it to the e-mail -- we still have people looking for firm jobs.

It's not that surprising.

There are probably plenty of BigLaw firms in NYC who realize in the spring that they needmore 3Ls, but the kind of people they're looking for (decent credentials, summered at a big firms, set to take the NY bar, and able to get out of their firm commitment) are usually in short supply.

I think most from CLS and NYU are going to V50. The help from a combination of OCS and recruiting at DL has been great. I wonder, though, how much more difficult it is for SAs coming from other markets. I imagine that being able to step into one of the NYC firms for a callback is much easier than coordinating from, e.g., DC.

Also, last update I got indicated K&S NY would take resumes.

Former Dewey summer SA here. Earlier this week, after much searching, I landed a summer position at an awesome V20 that I really love. This is a horrible situation for all involved, but it can actually work out for the better. Keep your chin up and work every angle and every connection that you have. Good luck to all.