How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat May 05, 2012 5:21 pm

typed something but decided didnt want to post. sorry

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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat May 05, 2012 5:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:typed something but decided didnt want to post. sorry


E-mail it.

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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat May 05, 2012 7:51 pm

So far, five confirmed SAs still looking. Will update this post as more people report.

1 SAer with offer in hand.
5 SAers looking for work.
1 Non-NY SAer in sum and subtance found work.
1 3Ler looking for work.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sun May 06, 2012 2:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat May 05, 2012 8:31 pm

In the middle of exams, when I get an email from my soon-to-be employer, Dewey & LeBoeuf, informing me that their summer associate program has been cancelled.

First, I’m like:
Image

Two seconds later, I’m like:
Image

Source:
http://wheninlawschool.tumblr.com/post/22335193351/in-the-middle-of-exams-when-i-get-an-email-from-my

Hang in there D&Lers.

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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun May 06, 2012 3:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Edit 2: Does anyone have an offer from Cahill?


Had a phone call screener last friday, haven't heard back. guessing that means no CB.

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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun May 06, 2012 7:48 pm

Heard that my NY V50 (not Cahill) took on 2 Dewey SAs for the summer.

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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun May 06, 2012 8:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Heard that my NY V50 (not Cahill) took on 2 Dewey SAs for the summer.


I wonder why Cahill had so many spots left open. Did they not make enough offers to get the proper yield? Or are people turning them down for a reason? I know 2 people who were re-contacted in December, and Cahill said that they decided to "expand" the program more than they originally thought (which I took to mean that they couldn't fill up their summer program).

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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun May 06, 2012 8:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Heard that my NY V50 (not Cahill) took on 2 Dewey SAs for the summer.


Can you e-mail me which firm? Just so I can let other SAs know which firm to stop holding on hope for.

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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun May 06, 2012 8:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Heard that my NY V50 (not Cahill) took on 2 Dewey SAs for the summer.


I wonder why Cahill had so many spots left open. Did they not make enough offers to get the proper yield? Or are people turning them down for a reason? I know 2 people who were re-contacted in December, and Cahill said that they decided to "expand" the program more than they originally thought (which I took to mean that they couldn't fill up their summer program).


I dunno, it seems like the firm is doing really well. Might be a legit reason. But they might have also been overly selective during OCI (they gave out a ton of mass mail callbacks but seemed to reject a lot of really strong candidates).

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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun May 06, 2012 8:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Heard that my NY V50 (not Cahill) took on 2 Dewey SAs for the summer.


I wonder why Cahill had so many spots left open. Did they not make enough offers to get the proper yield? Or are people turning them down for a reason? I know 2 people who were re-contacted in December, and Cahill said that they decided to "expand" the program more than they originally thought (which I took to mean that they couldn't fill up their summer program).


I dunno, it seems like the firm is doing really well. Might be a legit reason. But they might have also been overly selective during OCI (they gave out a ton of mass mail callbacks but seemed to reject a lot of really strong candidates).


Lol I did a mass mail CB with them, and got my rejection letter in the mail within 48 hours. I'll bet my interviewer (the big shot there) was writing the rejection letter while I was sitting across from the table, if it got to me that fast :)

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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Sun May 06, 2012 8:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Heard that my NY V50 (not Cahill) took on 2 Dewey SAs for the summer.


I wonder why Cahill had so many spots left open. Did they not make enough offers to get the proper yield? Or are people turning them down for a reason? I know 2 people who were re-contacted in December, and Cahill said that they decided to "expand" the program more than they originally thought (which I took to mean that they couldn't fill up their summer program).


I dunno, it seems like the firm is doing really well. Might be a legit reason. But they might have also been overly selective during OCI (they gave out a ton of mass mail callbacks but seemed to reject a lot of really strong candidates).

Anecdotally, Cahill really rubbed me and some other people the wrong way at EIW. I dunno how many others had a similar experience, but I wouldn't be surprised if their approach to recruiting left them with fewer interested candidates than they had expected.

My impression has been it's a strong performing firm, though, and if I had been planning to go to Dewey this summer I would sure as hell be thrilled to go to Cahill instead.

As always, best wishes to you guys. You did everything right, anyone else could be in your shoes just as easily, so don't let anyone get you down by implying that you should have seen this coming or whatever.

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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon May 07, 2012 2:33 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Heard that my NY V50 (not Cahill) took on 2 Dewey SAs for the summer.


I wonder why Cahill had so many spots left open. Did they not make enough offers to get the proper yield? Or are people turning them down for a reason? I know 2 people who were re-contacted in December, and Cahill said that they decided to "expand" the program more than they originally thought (which I took to mean that they couldn't fill up their summer program).


But they might have also been overly selective during OCI (they gave out a ton of mass mail callbacks but seemed to reject a lot of really strong candidates).


Yeah, I know people in the top 10 percent at T10 schools who cleaned up with NYC V10 firms but were shot down by Cahill post-callback. Really weird. I did a callback with them (no offer, but going to a V5 so no tears will be shed) and the whole time I got this feeling that the callback boiled down to (1) let me tell you about how great we are (but sort of in an arrogant, we're-better-than-you way), and (2) tell me why a great firm such as ours should hire somebody like you.

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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon May 07, 2012 2:38 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Heard that my NY V50 (not Cahill) took on 2 Dewey SAs for the summer.


I wonder why Cahill had so many spots left open. Did they not make enough offers to get the proper yield? Or are people turning them down for a reason? I know 2 people who were re-contacted in December, and Cahill said that they decided to "expand" the program more than they originally thought (which I took to mean that they couldn't fill up their summer program).


But they might have also been overly selective during OCI (they gave out a ton of mass mail callbacks but seemed to reject a lot of really strong candidates).


Yeah, I know people in the top 10 percent at T10 schools who cleaned up with NYC V10 firms but were shot down by Cahill post-callback. Really weird. I did a callback with them (no offer, but going to a V5 so no tears will be shed) and the whole time I got this feeling that the callback boiled down to (1) let me tell you about how great we are (but sort of in an arrogant, we're-better-than-you way), and (2) tell me why a great firm such as ours should hire somebody like you.


I always have a relatively informal, break the ice, joking around interview style. I try and act like someone you would enjoy working with. I'll never forget interviewing at Cahill, and having the big shots literally shoot down my jokes, making for some of the most awkward situations, and silences. They were even antagonistic at the very beginning/end when I was just trying to informally shoot the shit with them. It was so odd and offputting.

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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Old Gregg » Mon May 07, 2012 7:15 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Heard that my NY V50 (not Cahill) took on 2 Dewey SAs for the summer.


I wonder why Cahill had so many spots left open. Did they not make enough offers to get the proper yield? Or are people turning them down for a reason? I know 2 people who were re-contacted in December, and Cahill said that they decided to "expand" the program more than they originally thought (which I took to mean that they couldn't fill up their summer program).


But they might have also been overly selective during OCI (they gave out a ton of mass mail callbacks but seemed to reject a lot of really strong candidates).


Yeah, I know people in the top 10 percent at T10 schools who cleaned up with NYC V10 firms but were shot down by Cahill post-callback. Really weird. I did a callback with them (no offer, but going to a V5 so no tears will be shed) and the whole time I got this feeling that the callback boiled down to (1) let me tell you about how great we are (but sort of in an arrogant, we're-better-than-you way), and (2) tell me why a great firm such as ours should hire somebody like you.


Tears will be shed when you make a shit bonus. Until then, enjoy your false sense of superiority and sticking to them for getting that V5.

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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby sunynp » Mon May 07, 2012 8:17 am

Anonymous User wrote:Heard that my NY V50 (not Cahill) took on 2 Dewey SAs for the summer.

This is great news. I hope there are more positive stories to come out of this debacle.

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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Mon May 07, 2012 8:59 am

Fresh Prince wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:But they might have also been overly selective during OCI (they gave out a ton of mass mail callbacks but seemed to reject a lot of really strong candidates).


Yeah, I know people in the top 10 percent at T10 schools who cleaned up with NYC V10 firms but were shot down by Cahill post-callback. Really weird. I did a callback with them (no offer, but going to a V5 so no tears will be shed) and the whole time I got this feeling that the callback boiled down to (1) let me tell you about how great we are (but sort of in an arrogant, we're-better-than-you way), and (2) tell me why a great firm such as ours should hire somebody like you.


Tears will be shed when you make a shit bonus. Until then, enjoy your false sense of superiority and sticking to them for getting that V5.

This is a string of people trying to speculate about why Cahill might have had an unexpectedly low yield for their summer program and the anon you quoted was on topic. No need to be a jerk about it.

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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby somewhatwayward » Mon May 07, 2012 8:06 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
bceagles182 wrote:This whole thing has scared the shit out of me. Like many others, I interviewed for their NY office this summer, and I ended up elsewhere completely by chance. I obviously dodged a huge bullet, but I'm still shocked by how quickly the rug got pulled out from under these kids. Really, who's to say that it couldn't happen to any of us?


What should really keep you up is what happens if Italy, and Spain fall apart and the economy double dips. It won't just be 30 SA's it'll be 1000 No offer pwnd.


puts the fear of god in me....

i hope all the ex-dewey SAs get a good alternate position this summer

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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Old Gregg » Mon May 07, 2012 8:38 pm

dixiecupdrinking wrote:
Fresh Prince wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:But they might have also been overly selective during OCI (they gave out a ton of mass mail callbacks but seemed to reject a lot of really strong candidates).


Yeah, I know people in the top 10 percent at T10 schools who cleaned up with NYC V10 firms but were shot down by Cahill post-callback. Really weird. I did a callback with them (no offer, but going to a V5 so no tears will be shed) and the whole time I got this feeling that the callback boiled down to (1) let me tell you about how great we are (but sort of in an arrogant, we're-better-than-you way), and (2) tell me why a great firm such as ours should hire somebody like you.


Tears will be shed when you make a shit bonus. Until then, enjoy your false sense of superiority and sticking to them for getting that V5.

This is a string of people trying to speculate about why Cahill might have had an unexpectedly low yield for their summer program and the anon you quoted was on topic. No need to be a jerk about it.


Just pointing out that it's ironic to accuse Cahill of having some false sense of superiority when the poster is displaying said sense in that accusation.

Cahill is just undersubscribed because of the steady and inevitable string of law students who slavishly follow vault rankings. Otherwise, it's a fine firm. Far be it for them to uses their compensation record to try to be a little more selective.

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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby keg411 » Mon May 07, 2012 8:41 pm

And they're only "undersubscribed" by like 3 people. They have 42 SA's this year and had 45 last year. It's still a pretty massive class.

/not going to Cahill.

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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Old Gregg » Mon May 07, 2012 8:43 pm

keg411 wrote:And they're only "undersubscribed" by like 3 people. They have 42 SA's this year and had 45 last year. It's still a pretty massive class.

/not going to Cahill.


This too. But never forget the TLSer's inexorable need to mention that they work at a V5 or V10, as if that validates their opinions or clears them of all bias.

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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Mon May 07, 2012 8:46 pm

Fresh Prince wrote:Just pointing out that it's ironic to accuse Cahill of having some false sense of superiority when the poster is displaying said sense in that accusation.

Cahill is just undersubscribed because of the steady and inevitable string of law students who slavishly follow vault rankings. Otherwise, it's a fine firm. Far be it for them to uses their compensation record to try to be a little more selective.

Maybe so, but whether it's for good or bad reasons it sounds like the firm did overestimate how desirable they are as a place to work. Everyone knows Cahill pays bigger bonuses than most of the V10, and most nonetheless go to the V10 instead. That's nice for Cahill if they think their bigger bonuses should make top students overlook their bad attitudes and lower Vault ranking, but when it turns out they don't, it's hard to call the firm's sense of superiority anything other than "false."

There's "I'm working at a V10!" name-dropping like you're talking about, and then there's using it as a shorthand for "I know people who got jobs that by most measures should be harder to get than one at Cahill, what's up with that?" The latter is pretty inoffensive.

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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Old Gregg » Mon May 07, 2012 8:50 pm

dixiecupdrinking wrote:
Fresh Prince wrote:Just pointing out that it's ironic to accuse Cahill of having some false sense of superiority when the poster is displaying said sense in that accusation.

Cahill is just undersubscribed because of the steady and inevitable string of law students who slavishly follow vault rankings. Otherwise, it's a fine firm. Far be it for them to uses their compensation record to try to be a little more selective.

Maybe so, but whether it's for good or bad reasons it sounds like the firm did overestimate how desirable they are as a place to work. Everyone knows Cahill pays bigger bonuses than most of the V10, and most nonetheless go to the V10 instead. That's nice for Cahill if they think their bigger bonuses should make top students overlook their bad attitudes and lower Vault ranking, but when it turns out they don't, it's hard to call the firm's sense of superiority anything other than "false."

There's "I'm working at a V10!" name-dropping like you're talking about, and then there's using it as a shorthand for "I know people who got jobs that by most measures should be harder to get than one at Cahill, what's up with that?" The latter is pretty inoffensive.


I thought it was the former, but open to debate I guess.

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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby sundance95 » Mon May 07, 2012 8:51 pm

dixiecupdrinking wrote:
Fresh Prince wrote:Just pointing out that it's ironic to accuse Cahill of having some false sense of superiority when the poster is displaying said sense in that accusation.

Cahill is just undersubscribed because of the steady and inevitable string of law students who slavishly follow vault rankings. Otherwise, it's a fine firm. Far be it for them to uses their compensation record to try to be a little more selective.

Maybe so, but whether it's for good or bad reasons it sounds like the firm did overestimate how desirable they are as a place to work. Everyone knows Cahill pays bigger bonuses than most of the V10, and most nonetheless go to the V10 instead. That's nice for Cahill if they think their bigger bonuses should make top students overlook their bad attitudes and lower Vault ranking, but when it turns out they don't, it's hard to call the firm's sense of superiority anything other than "false."

Not if the obsession with Vault rankings is equally (if not more) ridiculous than an obsession with marginally larger bonuses.

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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby rayiner » Mon May 07, 2012 8:51 pm

dixiecupdrinking wrote:
Fresh Prince wrote:Just pointing out that it's ironic to accuse Cahill of having some false sense of superiority when the poster is displaying said sense in that accusation.

Cahill is just undersubscribed because of the steady and inevitable string of law students who slavishly follow vault rankings. Otherwise, it's a fine firm. Far be it for them to uses their compensation record to try to be a little more selective.

Maybe so, but whether it's for good or bad reasons it sounds like the firm did overestimate how desirable they are as a place to work. Everyone knows Cahill pays bigger bonuses than most of the V10, and most nonetheless go to the V10 instead. That's nice for Cahill if they think their bigger bonuses should make top students overlook their bad attitudes and lower Vault ranking, but when it turns out they don't, it's hard to call the firm's sense of superiority anything other than "false."


I don't think you can conclude that at all. Even very popular firms lose a bunch of people after each summer to clerkships, other firms through 3L OCI, etc. CSM, DPW, S&C were all looking for 3L's this year at NU, and one of those called up folks who had turned down their offers and asked if they wanted to reconsider. It's absolutely NBD for Cahill to have a few spots to fill in the incoming class.

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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Old Gregg » Mon May 07, 2012 8:54 pm

sundance95 wrote:
dixiecupdrinking wrote:
Fresh Prince wrote:Just pointing out that it's ironic to accuse Cahill of having some false sense of superiority when the poster is displaying said sense in that accusation.

Cahill is just undersubscribed because of the steady and inevitable string of law students who slavishly follow vault rankings. Otherwise, it's a fine firm. Far be it for them to uses their compensation record to try to be a little more selective.

Maybe so, but whether it's for good or bad reasons it sounds like the firm did overestimate how desirable they are as a place to work. Everyone knows Cahill pays bigger bonuses than most of the V10, and most nonetheless go to the V10 instead. That's nice for Cahill if they think their bigger bonuses should make top students overlook their bad attitudes and lower Vault ranking, but when it turns out they don't, it's hard to call the firm's sense of superiority anything other than "false."

Not if the obsession with Vault rankings is equally (if not more) ridiculous than an obsession with marginally larger bonuses.


Bonuses at Cahill were significantly larger, IIRC. I'd take that above almost any market-paying firm. But that's just me.




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