How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

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LawIdiot86
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby LawIdiot86 » Wed May 02, 2012 12:58 am

Current count is 234.

keg411
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby keg411 » Wed May 02, 2012 9:18 am

sunynp wrote:
sundance95 wrote:Are you really suggesting that if law firms were corporations they'd be more ethical or less likely to enter bankruptcy?

Me? No. I was wondering about what the warning signs of a firm close to financial distress would be. I am not worried about my firm now, but they, like a lot of firms, deferred, no-offered and stealth laid-off people in the downturn. I don't know what to look for in a firm teetering on the edge of distress when there are no public financials. The only real info I learned from Dewey is to look for any large amount of private notes that have been issued, but AFAIK, Dewey is the only firm that has done that.


+1. I have no idea how to even going finding this stuff out and the whole thing really rattled me. As far as I've read, my firm is pretty financially conservative and old-school, but you never know. I never expected this from Dewey at all, and I think it has every 2L and 3L a little shell shocked.

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Doritos
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Doritos » Wed May 02, 2012 9:30 am

keg411 wrote:
sunynp wrote:
sundance95 wrote:Are you really suggesting that if law firms were corporations they'd be more ethical or less likely to enter bankruptcy?

Me? No. I was wondering about what the warning signs of a firm close to financial distress would be. I am not worried about my firm now, but they, like a lot of firms, deferred, no-offered and stealth laid-off people in the downturn. I don't know what to look for in a firm teetering on the edge of distress when there are no public financials. The only real info I learned from Dewey is to look for any large amount of private notes that have been issued, but AFAIK, Dewey is the only firm that has done that.


+1. I have no idea how to even going finding this stuff out and the whole thing really rattled me. As far as I've read, my firm is pretty financially conservative and old-school, but you never know. I never expected this from Dewey at all, and I think it has every 2L and 3L a little shell shocked.


Yeah, it definitely got me a little rattled. It really makes me want to get to work ASAP and build skills, relationships and whatnot so that if it ever hits the fan at my firm I'm not left out in the cold with nowhere to go. I could theoretically keep my grades up to help mitigate the risk but let's be serious...


Anonymous User
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed May 02, 2012 11:28 am

Dewey SA here. Applied to over 30 firms, nobody is taking. Contemplating which caliber pistol is best.

The Duck
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby The Duck » Wed May 02, 2012 11:46 am

Anonymous User wrote:Dewey SA here. Applied to over 30 firms, nobody is taking. Contemplating which caliber pistol is best.


Don't give up yet. 30 firms is nothing. Mass mail....mass being the key. 30 is just scratching the surface. Setup a mail merge. There are also some non-250 firms that pay market and are respected within their fields that you want to consider. E.g. Wiley Rein in DC (for communications law). To give you an idea for numbers, pre-OCI I I've you'd be lucky to get 5-6 callbacks from around 150 firms. (Based on anecdotal evidence.) You'd need a much larger pool this time of year. You'll probably even want to expand markets as firms can have a need in one city but not others based upon the kind of work each office specializes in.

The trick is going to be selling the firm that you really want it and not just a job. The normal OCI rules apply...stick to one city per firm, etc. I'd figure out some hook to each city and mention it in the cover letter as well. (Maybe mention that you've decided to look at the Dewey episode positively as since you accepted you decided you really wanted to work in city X or for firm X. Now you have an opportunity to benefit from the extra year of exposure to the legal world...) Whatever you do, you need to fight to not come off as a bitter jaded former Dewey SA looking for a job until you can trade in 3L OCI.

One idea I used that worked when I mass-mailed before OCI:

Write a generic cover letter with spots for more tailored sentences about the firm. In excel, create a mail merge list with the name, address, etc and write these sentences for each firm. That way you can jot a quick sentence or two while getting the info from their site. Then just mail merge the info and sentences in.

If done right, you end up with a cover letter that reads like it was hand-written for the firm. But, its much quicker than hand creating each cover letter.

Younger Abstention
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Younger Abstention » Wed May 02, 2012 1:07 pm

I would probably too, at this point, sorry to say, expand your search beyond biglaw firms. Look to government agencies, smaller firms, and in-house counsel positions, many of which are still hiring. The most important thing, after all, is to have something noteworthy on your resume to discuss at 3L OCI. Of course, continue to apply to biglaw firms also, but don't be entitled and consider yourself different than other law students who at this point do not have 2L summer jobs.

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romothesavior
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby romothesavior » Wed May 02, 2012 1:16 pm

concurrent fork wrote:
LawIdiot86 wrote:
romothesavior wrote:How do you guys know who all these partners are? The only names of partners I know of or care to know of are at the firm I'm going to. And I suppose some of the huge names like Herbert Wachtell, Marty Lipton, David Boies, John Quinn, etc., but I couldn't tell you a single thing about any of them.


I know, it always amazes me when people list the top 10 people and cases they've worked on, despite never having met them. My roommate does it all the time in his field of law and I'm utterly astonished. I'm lucky if I can remember my professors half the time.

Bienenstock teaches at both HLS and Mich, which is the only reason why TLS people know him.

Yeah, but some people can just rattle off lawyer names. It is so odd. Like, is there a Fantasy Law Partner league or something? No idea how people do this.

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IrwinM.Fletcher
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby IrwinM.Fletcher » Wed May 02, 2012 1:27 pm

romothesavior wrote:Yeah, but some people can just rattle off lawyer names. It is so odd. Like, is there a Fantasy Law Partner league or something? No idea how people do this.


I'm glad you said this, it's been creeping me out for a while. Reminds of the college sports fans who know every last statistic/family detail/birthmark location of any high school athlete their school has recruited in the last few years.

If it's not your firm (and especially if it's not even your practice area), then who cares what partner Nestle calls when they need to issue convertible bonds? I don't get it.

Anonymous User
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed May 02, 2012 3:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Dewey SA here. Applied to over 30 firms, nobody is taking. Contemplating which caliber pistol is best.


There are 350 NLJ 350 firms out there. Some in the 250-350 range pay just a hair below market. Some of those would be happy to get a presumably pretty qualified guy/girl like you.

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Wed May 02, 2012 3:00 pm

romothesavior wrote:
concurrent fork wrote:
LawIdiot86 wrote:
romothesavior wrote:How do you guys know who all these partners are? The only names of partners I know of or care to know of are at the firm I'm going to. And I suppose some of the huge names like Herbert Wachtell, Marty Lipton, David Boies, John Quinn, etc., but I couldn't tell you a single thing about any of them.


I know, it always amazes me when people list the top 10 people and cases they've worked on, despite never having met them. My roommate does it all the time in his field of law and I'm utterly astonished. I'm lucky if I can remember my professors half the time.

Bienenstock teaches at both HLS and Mich, which is the only reason why TLS people know him.

Yeah, but some people can just rattle off lawyer names. It is so odd. Like, is there a Fantasy Law Partner league or something? No idea how people do this.

I am so starting this, btw.

sadsituationJD
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby sadsituationJD » Wed May 02, 2012 3:50 pm

What's surprising is that so many people here seem surprised. It wasn't so much 'lack of work" that did Dewey in, it was lack of paying work:

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/04/30/ ... -to-leave/

ROTFL that partners were offered free ipods and such if they could get clients who would pay on time!

The Biglaw business model is a dead man walking. Corporations are not going to pay $500 or more an hour for these pathetic paper-churners to grind out this makework cut n' paste slop anymore. I really don't think any of you have a clue as to how bad the USA's future truly is. We're going to witness the complete meltdown of essentially useless industries like law (which do little more than extract money from producers in exchange for churning pointless, make-work shitpaper), and the growth of "hands-on" industries like farming, repair work, and salvage operations as the great oil-guzzling, fiat currency farce that is TeamUSA slowly unravels like the Roman Empire.

Anonymous User
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed May 02, 2012 3:55 pm

sadsituationJD wrote:What's surprising is that so many people here seem surprised. It wasn't so much 'lack of work" that did Dewey in, it was lack of paying work:

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/04/30/ ... -to-leave/

ROTFL that partners were offered free ipods and such if they could get clients who would pay on time!

The Biglaw business model is a dead man walking. Corporations are not going to pay $500 or more an hour for these pathetic paper-churners to grind out this makework cut n' paste slop anymore. I really don't think any of you have a clue as to how bad the USA's future truly is. We're going to witness the complete meltdown of essentially useless industries like law (which do little more than extract money from producers in exchange for churning pointless, make-work shitpaper), and the growth of "hands-on" industries like farming, repair work, and salvage operations as the great oil-guzzling, fiat currency farce that is TeamUSA slowly unravels like the Roman Empire.


I was shocked when I was working opposite a V10 on a major deal that involving a F100 and we had to send back half their papers for being the wrong version, incorrectly formatted, or for basic grammar and spelling errors that made it look like a drunk kid had done the typing.

randomdandom
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby randomdandom » Wed May 02, 2012 3:56 pm

Edit:totally botched the quote tags...


where do i sign up for this fantasy law league?? ;)

BlueDiamond
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby BlueDiamond » Wed May 02, 2012 4:12 pm

randomdandom wrote:Edit:totally botched the quote tags...


where do i sign up for this fantasy law league?? ;)


is there a salary cap or can we poach the best partners?

keg411
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby keg411 » Wed May 02, 2012 5:06 pm

Honestly, I know of very, very few "famous" lawyers. Only reason I know of Bienenstock is because I had him for a class, and I know of Kessler because of the recent NFL labor stuff.

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nygrrrl
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby nygrrrl » Wed May 02, 2012 5:24 pm

BlueDiamond wrote:
randomdandom wrote:Edit:totally botched the quote tags...


where do i sign up for this fantasy law league?? ;)


is there a salary cap or can we poach the best partners?

:lol:

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Blindmelon
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Blindmelon » Wed May 02, 2012 5:36 pm

sadsituationJD wrote:What's surprising is that so many people here seem surprised. It wasn't so much 'lack of work" that did Dewey in, it was lack of paying work:

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/04/30/ ... -to-leave/

ROTFL that partners were offered free ipods and such if they could get clients who would pay on time!

The Biglaw business model is a dead man walking. Corporations are not going to pay $500 or more an hour for these pathetic paper-churners to grind out this makework cut n' paste slop anymore. I really don't think any of you have a clue as to how bad the USA's future truly is. We're going to witness the complete meltdown of essentially useless industries like law (which do little more than extract money from producers in exchange for churning pointless, make-work shitpaper), and the growth of "hands-on" industries like farming, repair work, and salvage operations as the great oil-guzzling, fiat currency farce that is TeamUSA slowly unravels like the Roman Empire.


This is a little paranoid, even for me.

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rayiner
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby rayiner » Wed May 02, 2012 5:44 pm

Blindmelon wrote:
sadsituationJD wrote:What's surprising is that so many people here seem surprised. It wasn't so much 'lack of work" that did Dewey in, it was lack of paying work:

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/04/30/ ... -to-leave/

ROTFL that partners were offered free ipods and such if they could get clients who would pay on time!

The Biglaw business model is a dead man walking. Corporations are not going to pay $500 or more an hour for these pathetic paper-churners to grind out this makework cut n' paste slop anymore. I really don't think any of you have a clue as to how bad the USA's future truly is. We're going to witness the complete meltdown of essentially useless industries like law (which do little more than extract money from producers in exchange for churning pointless, make-work shitpaper), and the growth of "hands-on" industries like farming, repair work, and salvage operations as the great oil-guzzling, fiat currency farce that is TeamUSA slowly unravels like the Roman Empire.


This is a little paranoid, even for me.


What's funny is that it ignores the nature and history of the US. If the US does collapse, it will do so in a grand flurry of litigation. California and Arizona are going to be fighting over water rights in court long before California invades Arizona, enslaving some of its inhabitants and using the rest for fuel.

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Na_Swatch
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Na_Swatch » Wed May 02, 2012 5:46 pm

rayiner wrote:
Blindmelon wrote:
sadsituationJD wrote:What's surprising is that so many people here seem surprised. It wasn't so much 'lack of work" that did Dewey in, it was lack of paying work:

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/04/30/ ... -to-leave/

ROTFL that partners were offered free ipods and such if they could get clients who would pay on time!

The Biglaw business model is a dead man walking. Corporations are not going to pay $500 or more an hour for these pathetic paper-churners to grind out this makework cut n' paste slop anymore. I really don't think any of you have a clue as to how bad the USA's future truly is. We're going to witness the complete meltdown of essentially useless industries like law (which do little more than extract money from producers in exchange for churning pointless, make-work shitpaper), and the growth of "hands-on" industries like farming, repair work, and salvage operations as the great oil-guzzling, fiat currency farce that is TeamUSA slowly unravels like the Roman Empire.


This is a little paranoid, even for me.


What's funny is that it ignores the nature and history of the US. If the US does collapse, it will do so in a grand flurry of litigation. California and Arizona are going to be fighting over water rights in court long before California invades Arizona, enslaving some of its inhabitants and using the rest for fuel.


Lol that's the least of the logical flaws in that paragraph

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Cavalier
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Cavalier » Wed May 02, 2012 5:50 pm

sadsituationJD wrote:What's surprising is that so many people here seem surprised. It wasn't so much 'lack of work" that did Dewey in, it was lack of paying work:

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/04/30/ ... -to-leave/

ROTFL that partners were offered free ipods and such if they could get clients who would pay on time!

The Biglaw business model is a dead man walking. Corporations are not going to pay $500 or more an hour for these pathetic paper-churners to grind out this makework cut n' paste slop anymore. I really don't think any of you have a clue as to how bad the USA's future truly is. We're going to witness the complete meltdown of essentially useless industries like law (which do little more than extract money from producers in exchange for churning pointless, make-work shitpaper), and the growth of "hands-on" industries like farming, repair work, and salvage operations as the great oil-guzzling, fiat currency farce that is TeamUSA slowly unravels like the Roman Empire.

I agree. That's why my plan is to get into big law while it still exists, save up a couple hundred thousand dollars, and covert it all into gold! Ron Paul '08!

chasgoose
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby chasgoose » Wed May 02, 2012 8:16 pm

sunynp wrote:
The Duck wrote:
sunynp wrote:
Younger Abstention wrote:Uhh... and why is he a jerk?

Because he left the firm to save himself and now wants to throw a bone of $10,000 to a thousand staff people who will have no health insurance, no job and no income. Not to mention the associates who the partners would have taken with them if they could in the first place.

Who is going to set up and administer a fund like that? How are they going to decide who deserves money? How much will they get? How much do you really think other partners will kick in? These funds are very complicated to administer, see the problems with the money for families of WTC victims.


Because he should have screwed his own family to save them? Its his livelihood too. They are all in the same boat. He may be in a better position but that doesn't make him a jerk. He's offering to do something to help, there is isn't much more you can ask of him. It's not his fault the firm is going under.

My opinion is what he is offering is untenable and won't help people in a practical way. My opinion is he is trying to make himself look better for leaving the firm. He didn't have to leave, several of the best partners didn't.


That's because the whole problem at Dewey was that with the guaranteed salaries going to the star partners (many of whom were likely in on the alleged scheme if that proves to be true or at least somewhat aware of it) there wasn't enough money left for the others. The firm leadership was basically asking the non-star partners to bear the entire cost of their loss in revenue. The star partners with sweetheart guaranteed contracts were still taking the same cut and the rest were left to fight for the remains. Partners in that situation owed Dewey nothing.

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sunynp
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby sunynp » Wed May 02, 2012 11:18 pm

That's because the whole problem at Dewey was that with the guaranteed salaries going to the star partners (many of whom were likely in on the alleged scheme if that proves to be true or at least somewhat aware of it) there wasn't enough money left for the others. The firm leadership was basically asking the non-star partners to bear the entire cost of their loss in revenue. The star partners with sweetheart guaranteed contracts were still taking the same cut and the rest were left to fight for the remains. Partners in that situation owed Dewey nothing.


But the guy starting this fund for the unemployed was one of those lateral partners who got a big bonus just for going to the firm. He wasn't a guy not getting paid because he was a junior have not, though he probably did defer compensation. Anyway it doesnt matter now.

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sunynp
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby sunynp » Wed May 02, 2012 11:48 pm

FInally an article for the summers who had been left out of the reporting so far:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/03/busin ... track.html


With Dewey’s announcement, these students’ careful, fastidiously risk-averse career planning collapsed under them, and they fell off the job track not just for Dewey but for its peer firms. Of the dozens of major firms contacted for this article, only one had picked up one of these stranded summer associates, and that was because one of its partners had a personal connection to the student.

The others all declined to comment, with the exception of one firm spokeswoman who said her firm did not have any openings, but even if it did, it would hire someone from its own shortlist rather than extend an offer to one of the Dewey students.

“We all got into multiple places but just picked the wrong one,” said Mr. Aitchison, the only one of several associates interviewed for this article who was willing to be identified. “Now every other program is full, and it’s not like they’re going to all adjust their plans to accommodate the failure of this one.”


Now this reporting bothers me because I thought that Dewey specifically reassured students they were running to summer program. The article hints slightly that the summers should have known better but doesn't mention Dewey's role in keeping them blind to reality.
The financial problems at Dewey & LeBoeuf emerged around January, when partners started leaving the firm. Still, students thought their jobs were safe.

“This firm has been around in some form for over a century. My sense was this place is not going to go away,” said one student at an Ivy League school who is now scrambling to find a job at another firm. He had initially given his name but later insisted on anonymity because he was concerned about jeopardizing discussions with law firms that had offered him positions last fall.

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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed May 02, 2012 11:56 pm

sunynp wrote:FInally an article for the summers who had been left out of the reporting so far:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/03/busin ... track.html


With Dewey’s announcement, these students’ careful, fastidiously risk-averse career planning collapsed under them, and they fell off the job track not just for Dewey but for its peer firms. Of the dozens of major firms contacted for this article, only one had picked up one of these stranded summer associates, and that was because one of its partners had a personal connection to the student.

The others all declined to comment, with the exception of one firm spokeswoman who said her firm did not have any openings, but even if it did, it would hire someone from its own shortlist rather than extend an offer to one of the Dewey students.

“We all got into multiple places but just picked the wrong one,” said Mr. Aitchison, the only one of several associates interviewed for this article who was willing to be identified. “Now every other program is full, and it’s not like they’re going to all adjust their plans to accommodate the failure of this one.”


I'm not saying that Andrew Aitchison isn't a summer, but his name did not appear on the SA roster, nor did his name or initials appear in the firm's e-mails "to" list. Not that it really matters, just a strange thing. If the article is true, this destroys more hope for biglaw prospects this summer.




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