How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

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LawIdiot86
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby LawIdiot86 » Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:16 pm

Over the weekend, the partner headcount on their website dropped from 260 to 255. Were these carryover from last week or in anticipation of Monday?

Anonymous User
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:07 pm

LawIdiot86 wrote:Over the weekend, the partner headcount on their website dropped from 260 to 255. Were these carryover from last week or in anticipation of Monday?


What day and time did you pull the 260 count?

LawIdiot86
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby LawIdiot86 » Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
LawIdiot86 wrote:Over the weekend, the partner headcount on their website dropped from 260 to 255. Were these carryover from last week or in anticipation of Monday?


What day and time did you pull the 260 count?


Friday around noon-ish? Sometime Friday. It was 258 + Chairman + Vice-Chairman. Now it's 253 + Chairman + Vice-Chairman.

imchuckbass58
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby imchuckbass58 » Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:41 pm

Not really totally new information, but a good article focusing on incoming associates/SAs:

http://amlawdaily.typepad.com/amlawdail ... limbo.html

Anonymous User
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Dewey SAs: if you have not yet been able to find another opportunity for the summer, I want you to know that many firms are empathetic to the Dewey situation. Good luck.


What sort of outreach did you do? Call or email? Any advice you can give would be very, very welcome. I have not had much luck yet...

Anonymous User
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Dewey SAs: if you have not yet been able to find another opportunity for the summer, I want you to know that many firms are empathetic to the Dewey situation. Good luck.


What sort of outreach did you do? Call or email? Any advice you can give would be very, very welcome. I have not had much luck yet...


I heard that a Dewey SA contacted other firms that gave him offers to see if they had any space left a month or two ago when this started to go down. Thankfully, one of them did. Not all firms completely fill up their class. They only get one shot to do their interviews and if they under-offer, they might not meet the class size they budgeted for. Yes they can hold people for awhile, but most of them get snatched up by somewhere else. If you had multiple offers, it doesn't hurt to at least try or even check with your Career Services office to see if they have heard of any firms that didn't get as many SA's as they wanted (they might be a little reluctant because if it got out they were helping you law firms might not be happy). The only thing you have to do from an ethical perspective is, If you get an offer somewhere else, tell Dewey you aren't coming before you accept.

To those who might think the above is unethical, in normal circumstances I would agree, but Dewey can't even pay for FedEx any more. They are going to be happy not to have to pay $30k this summer to train some 2L who will almost undoubtedly be working somewhere else within the next 1-2 years.

Anonymous User
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Dewey SAs: if you have not yet been able to find another opportunity for the summer, I want you to know that many firms are empathetic to the Dewey situation. Good luck.


What sort of outreach did you do? Call or email? Any advice you can give would be very, very welcome. I have not had much luck yet...


I heard that a Dewey SA contacted other firms that gave him offers to see if they had any space left a month or two ago when this started to go down. Thankfully, one of them did. Not all firms completely fill up their class. They only get one shot to do their interviews and if they under-offer, they might not meet the class size they budgeted for. Yes they can hold people for awhile, but most of them get snatched up by somewhere else. If you had multiple offers, it doesn't hurt to at least try or even check with your Career Services office to see if they have heard of any firms that didn't get as many SA's as they wanted (they might be a little reluctant because if it got out they were helping you law firms might not be happy). The only thing you have to do from an ethical perspective is, If you get an offer somewhere else, tell Dewey you aren't coming before you accept.

To those who might think the above is unethical, in normal circumstances I would agree, but Dewey can't even pay for FedEx any more. They are going to be happy not to have to pay $30k this summer to train some 2L who will almost undoubtedly be working somewhere else within the next 1-2 years.


Dewey explicitly told at least one career service office that incoming summers may pursue alternatives. There is nothing even remotely unethical about doing so.

Anonymous User
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Dewey explicitly told at least one career service office that incoming summers may pursue alternatives. There is nothing even remotely unethical about doing so.



Are you referring to the article regarding new associates and summers posted above, or are you talking about something else? I ask because I don't see "explicit" authorization in that article.

Anonymous User
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:42 am

Those of you even questioning the ethics of looking for another position do not understand the concept of at-will employment.

Anonymous User
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Dewey explicitly told at least one career service office that incoming summers may pursue alternatives. There is nothing even remotely unethical about doing so.



Are you referring to the article regarding new associates and summers posted above, or are you talking about something else? I ask because I don't see "explicit" authorization in that article.


I was not referring to the article.

Anonymous User
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:11 pm

Say hello to Greenberg, Traurig & Dewey?

http://amlawdaily.typepad.com/amlawdail ... tions.html

LawIdiot86
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby LawIdiot86 » Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:12 pm

LawIdiot86 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
LawIdiot86 wrote:Over the weekend, the partner headcount on their website dropped from 260 to 255. Were these carryover from last week or in anticipation of Monday?


What day and time did you pull the 260 count?


Friday around noon-ish? Sometime Friday. It was 258 + Chairman + Vice-Chairman. Now it's 253 + Chairman + Vice-Chairman.


Now 254.

Anonymous User
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Those of you even questioning the ethics of looking for another position do not understand the concept of at-will employment.


While the Dewey situation is exceptional, firms might be concerned about accusations of tortious interference, which applies to at-will employment relationships.

LawIdiot86
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby LawIdiot86 » Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Those of you even questioning the ethics of looking for another position do not understand the concept of at-will employment.


While the Dewey situation is exceptional, firms might be concerned about accusations of tortious interference, which applies to at-will employment relationships.


I don't know employment law, but what damages would Dewey (or any big firm) be able to prove relative to an SA or first year jumping ship? Wouldn't the damage calculation actually show the other firm had saved them money by letting them avoid the 30k summer cruise or the net negative of first year's from all the training/charge-offs/onboarding costs?

concurrent fork
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby concurrent fork » Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:33 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Dewey explicitly told at least one career service office that incoming summers may pursue alternatives. There is nothing even remotely unethical about doing so.



Are you referring to the article regarding new associates and summers posted above, or are you talking about something else? I ask because I don't see "explicit" authorization in that article.

Protip: an at will employer does not have to "authorize" you to speak with other potential employers. Carry on.

Anonymous User
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:41 pm

LawIdiot86 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Those of you even questioning the ethics of looking for another position do not understand the concept of at-will employment.


While the Dewey situation is exceptional, firms might be concerned about accusations of tortious interference, which applies to at-will employment relationships.


I don't know employment law, but what damages would Dewey (or any big firm) be able to prove relative to an SA or first year jumping ship? Wouldn't the damage calculation actually show the other firm had saved them money by letting them avoid the 30k summer cruise or the net negative of first year's from all the training/charge-offs/onboarding costs?


I don't think there would be much of a case for any legal or equitable remedy here (even if Dewey objected), but in theory punitive damages and injunctions are available (in addition to compensatory damages).

But Dewey has already authorized summers to look for alternatives, so the point is moot.

Anonymous User
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
I don't think there would be much of a case for any legal or equitable remedy here (even if Dewey objected), but in theory punitive damages and injunctions are available (in addition to compensatory damages).



This one still doesn't understand at-will employment. All of this is wrong; do not pass go; do not collect $200. And for the love of god, stop talking.

Anonymous User
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Say hello to Greenberg, Traurig & Dewey?

http://amlawdaily.typepad.com/amlawdail ... tions.html


It would either have to be Dewey, Greenberg, Taurig or Greenberg, Taurig, LeBoeuf.

Governor Dewey wrote in his will that the firm could only use his name if it cam first. This was an issue of some consternation between Orrick and Dewey Ballantine during merger talks and is the reason that the firm is known as Dewey & LeBoeuf despite LeBoeuf basically buying Dewey out.

Anonymous User
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:19 pm

http://abovethelaw.com/2012/04/dewey-ha ... ferrals/3/

What's the deal with the "Dewey Greenberg" story? Does this article allude only to a spinoff of the European offices into a new "Dewey Greenberg" firm, is is it referencing the whole firm?

Anonymous User
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:44 pm

Greenberg has nothing to gain and everything to lose by merging with Dewey rather than cherry-picking their partners.

keg411
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby keg411 » Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Greenberg has nothing to gain and everything to lose by merging with Dewey rather than cherry-picking their partners.


Unless GT thinks this is the only way they can get the really big-name partners. Though I'd agree that it's probably a bad idea in the long run.

09042014
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby 09042014 » Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:26 pm

keg411 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Greenberg has nothing to gain and everything to lose by merging with Dewey rather than cherry-picking their partners.


Unless GT thinks this is the only way they can get the really big-name partners. Though I'd agree that it's probably a bad idea in the long run.


A lot of it depends on what the lenders are going to want. They aren't going to get a lot during a Chapter 7. I'm sure any deal will include making key figures in Dewey sign contracts or something.

Anonymous User
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:58 pm

It seems there will be more certainty in seven days, if not sooner:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 05900.html

If it asks you to subscribe just google "Dewey & LeBoeuf Faces Debt Deadline"

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:07 pm

What kind of debt financing do law firms typically use? Do they have substantial assets to secure loans? In a bankruptcy would their creditors mostly be unsecured?

Morgan12Oak
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Morgan12Oak » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:30 pm

Most firms typically don't have the type of debt Dewey does. If firms do have debt its usually revolving credit lines that cover liquidty issues relating to the lag-time between receivables and expenses.

I'd imagine most of these revolving credit lines probably are unsecured if they're small and if they get larger they are probably just secured by receivables. Otherwise, firms don't really have any assets besides human capital so it's hard to imagine what their debt could be secured by.

PRobably a bad sign that firms have large amounts of debt. In hindsight, it looks like Dewey "bought" its prestige with having partners that the firm clearly couldn't afford given its books.




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