How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

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LawIdiot86
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby LawIdiot86 » Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:13 pm

imchuckbass58 wrote:
LawIdiot86 wrote:The NY office had over 500 before these defections started. Why Shearman, another huge NY firm, would want it is beyond me. Reed Smith and Greenberg are slightly more plausible given their bases in other regions, but I don't know why another firm would dream of going near legacy Dewey's pile of debt.


Well, the idea is that the prepack would significantly reduce the amount of debt Dewey carries.


Right, it would take Chase and Citi (and Fedex) off the table, but still leave a lot of ugly expenses on the table that would be annoying as hell to deal with. Dewey is twice as large and twice as old as Howrey was and the task of sorting Howrey's files is apparently ungodly (http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/capitalbusiness/the-law-firm-may-have-dissolved-but-the-records-remain/2012/02/21/gIQAjxilcR_story.html). Also, I'm sure lots of small creditors, servicers, and non-lawyer employees would get screwed in a prepackaged bankruptcy and sue. They probably would lose (I don't know bankruptcy law that well), but the cost of getting those cases dismissed and potential bad PR from EEOC-type actions are another cost that survives bankruptcy. I have no idea why these firms wouldn't just cherry pick partners and practices. Law firms have no assets worth buying.

imchuckbass58
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby imchuckbass58 » Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:49 pm

LawIdiot86 wrote:Right, it would take Chase and Citi (and Fedex) off the table, but still leave a lot of ugly expenses on the table that would be annoying as hell to deal with. Dewey is twice as large and twice as old as Howrey was and the task of sorting Howrey's files is apparently ungodly (http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/capitalbusiness/the-law-firm-may-have-dissolved-but-the-records-remain/2012/02/21/gIQAjxilcR_story.html). Also, I'm sure lots of small creditors, servicers, and non-lawyer employees would get screwed in a prepackaged bankruptcy and sue. They probably would lose (I don't know bankruptcy law that well), but the cost of getting those cases dismissed and potential bad PR from EEOC-type actions are another cost that survives bankruptcy. I have no idea why these firms wouldn't just cherry pick partners and practices. Law firms have no assets worth buying.


Yeah, aside from the clawback issue, I really don't see how this is going to work better than a dissolution.

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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:http://newsandinsight.thomsonreuters.com/New_York/News/2012/04_-_April/Dewey___LeBoeuf_retains_bankruptcy_counsel,_role_unclear/

Bankruptcy counsel. I think that basically is the end of the road.


These are nothing more than market rumors. Stop trying to make the situation out to be worse than it is by posting anonymously. That's very insensitive.

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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:53 pm

ETA - Thanks for the advice everyone. Please remove from you comments any references to this post.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

LawIdiot86
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby LawIdiot86 » Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:55 pm

Yes, call him. Assume he's only going to give you advice on how to bid, but if he offers a letter or a job or an interview, take it. Dewey will blacklist you, for the remaining five months of it's life, but you have a career here to worry about. Assume this is your one shot, but don't come off like you assume he will give you anything.

LawIdiot86
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby LawIdiot86 » Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:56 pm

What's this "DL Pursuits" thing I see searching for partner defections? (--LinkRemoved--). It has ~30 people in it. Are these people who were laid off? Quit? Given a rotation in PI? Is it some weird kind of severance? How does it pay? Do other firms do this?

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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:07 pm

LawIdiot86 wrote:What's this "DL Pursuits" thing I see searching for partner defections? (--LinkRemoved--). It has ~30 people in it. Are these people who were laid off? Quit? Given a rotation in PI? Is it some weird kind of severance? How does it pay? Do other firms do this?


http://lmgtfy.com/?q=DL+pursuits


Have any Dewey SAs received word (official or not) from anyone at the firm? I have to think they know at this point whether they will continue the program...

LawIdiot86
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby LawIdiot86 » Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
LawIdiot86 wrote:What's this "DL Pursuits" thing I see searching for partner defections? (--LinkRemoved--). It has ~30 people in it. Are these people who were laid off? Quit? Given a rotation in PI? Is it some weird kind of severance? How does it pay? Do other firms do this?


http://lmgtfy.com/?q=DL+pursuits


Have any Dewey SAs received word (official or not) from anyone at the firm? I have to think they know at this point whether they will continue the program...


Alright, ATL says it is a deferral program, but the Dewey link says it is for people who have recently left the firm. Which is it?

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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
LawIdiot86 wrote:What's this "DL Pursuits" thing I see searching for partner defections? (--LinkRemoved--). It has ~30 people in it. Are these people who were laid off? Quit? Given a rotation in PI? Is it some weird kind of severance? How does it pay? Do other firms do this?


http://lmgtfy.com/?q=DL+pursuits


Have any Dewey SAs received word (official or not) from anyone at the firm? I have to think they know at this point whether they will continue the program...

Why would they know that? They don't even know whether or not the firm will exist in a month. If the firm still exists, presumably Dewey will have some sort of summer program, even if it's a no-frills six week experience where summers get paid $1000/week.

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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:http://newsandinsight.thomsonreuters.com/New_York/News/2012/04_-_April/Dewey___LeBoeuf_retains_bankruptcy_counsel,_role_unclear/

Bankruptcy counsel. I think that basically is the end of the road.


These are nothing more than market rumors. Stop trying to make the situation out to be worse than it is by posting anonymously. That's very insensitive.


These aren't just market rumors. There's a lot of truth to everything in that article. At this point there is nothing to "make the situation worse." Those that are going to leave are going to leave are preparing to do so and those that are going to stay are planning accordingly. The state of the firm largely revolves around how "management" can package the firm. The international offices *are* leaving. The firm will be a fraction of it's current size and the only way to deal with the kind of debt they have is to initiate some sort of bankruptcy proceeding. A small firm cannot manage big firm debt loads. What this means for summer associates or future associates is completely uncertain because no one knows what the state of the firm will be in a couple months.

To answer other questions:

DL Pursuits was a program initiated the firm to deal with deferred associates. These were usually before entering, they could take a pay cut and go work pro bono at different organizations around New York. When the economy crashed, it was also a way to just clear out associates for a while. It was only supposed to be a year or so but many DL Pursuits were not invited back because there was no work for them.

To the incoming SA to Dewey. Go talk to him. I know some of your fellow classmates have managed to land other summer associates at other firms - including Sullivan and Cromwell. If you put the legwork into looking, you'll be surprised to find that there's a sense of sympathy across the legal community about all of this and if you're a qualified candidate *some* firms seem willing to help out. There's a certain burden that the whole community seems willing to share. And, Dewey was notorious for being very picky about prestige and grades for summer's so if you got an offer from Dewey, others will give you a look.

No, the firm has not contacted the Summer Associate class in quite a while. Nor have they contacted any of the DL Pursuiters or the people scheduled to enter in January. Simply put, all of these people are very low in the pecking order AND the firm simply doesn't know what to say. Things are in utter flux.

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Guchster
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Guchster » Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:34 pm

No fed ex, towncars, and attorneys are struggling to get records out of warehouses for lack of payment?

That sounds agonizing in terms of biglawlife.

Combined with the fear of the unknown, it's hard to imagine what's going through the minds of attorneys there--esp. lower level ones without clients/connections.

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sunynp
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby sunynp » Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:25 pm

I really thought they would make it through the summer. I honestly thought the SAs were better off sticking with their offers, and, because of it being too late to find something else. But now... I dunno i'm sorry this is happening. TBH a friend of mine's father is a partner there (insurance) who hasn't left. Knowing them, I felt better that the firm would at least last long enough for summers. But I don't have any inside information.

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sunynp
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby sunynp » Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:28 pm

sunynp wrote:Look I may be wrong, and this is very definitely bad news for the firm. At this point, I don't think they will cancel the SA program. It isn't like the firm is shutting down over the summer. I think canceling is a dramatic step that shows they are basically giving up as a firm. They will probably do as much cost cutting as possible, but not completely give up on their future.

As mentioned, I think you should remain very professional at your firm this summer. You have to act like nothing is wrong, do stellar work, make friends and still network with people at other firms. This is not as easy as it sounds. Your work environment is going to be a challenging place. Just deal with it.

But don't expect to get an offer or, if you do get an offer, don't expect to accept it. You have to start looking at where your next job will be, but you are screwed for an SA at any other firm this year.


I think you need to call everyone you can to look for something else. And I am know really sorry I suggested otherwise. But, damn, is it possible they will have summer events if they can't pay their car service bills? How does management run out of cash that fast?

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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:35 pm

Greenberg Dewey & Traurig? More news on the potential merger talks. Dewey has now acknowledged talks with GT. Fingers crossed...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 56738.html

09042014
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby 09042014 » Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:43 pm

sunynp wrote:
sunynp wrote:Look I may be wrong, and this is very definitely bad news for the firm. At this point, I don't think they will cancel the SA program. It isn't like the firm is shutting down over the summer. I think canceling is a dramatic step that shows they are basically giving up as a firm. They will probably do as much cost cutting as possible, but not completely give up on their future.

As mentioned, I think you should remain very professional at your firm this summer. You have to act like nothing is wrong, do stellar work, make friends and still network with people at other firms. This is not as easy as it sounds. Your work environment is going to be a challenging place. Just deal with it.

But don't expect to get an offer or, if you do get an offer, don't expect to accept it. You have to start looking at where your next job will be, but you are screwed for an SA at any other firm this year.


I think you need to call everyone you can to look for something else. And I am know really sorry I suggested otherwise. But, damn, is it possible they will have summer events if they can't pay their car service bills? How does management run out of cash that fast?


I'm not a bankruptcy pro, but when an organization realizes it is going bankrupt, the management has a duty to the debtors. You stop paying unsecured debts and you only pay essential services. They are keeping their cash because getting cash in bankruptcy is hard.

LawIdiot86
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby LawIdiot86 » Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Greenberg Dewey & Traurig? More news on the potential merger talks. Dewey has now acknowledged talks with GT. Fingers crossed...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 56738.html

Yes, clearly Dewey's problem was not being big enough. Transplanting all these guaranteed contract partners to Greenberg will solve everything. I didn't relize Dewey was the second most savvy firm.

In other news, I don't think Greenberg is famous for its huge summer classes, so SAs should be running for the hills if this closes.

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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:12 pm

LawIdiot86 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Greenberg Dewey & Traurig? More news on the potential merger talks. Dewey has now acknowledged talks with GT. Fingers crossed...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 56738.html

In other news, I don't think Greenberg is famous for its huge summer classes, so SAs should be running for the hills if this closes.


And that's different from where we stand now, how?

LawIdiot86
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby LawIdiot86 » Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
LawIdiot86 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Greenberg Dewey & Traurig? More news on the potential merger talks. Dewey has now acknowledged talks with GT. Fingers crossed...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 56738.html

In other news, I don't think Greenberg is famous for its huge summer classes, so SAs should be running for the hills if this closes.


And that's different from where we stand now, how?


If an SA was hoping to ride the Dewey wave into Greenberg, it will be unlikely. Greenberg's NYC office is half the size of Dewey's, but they take a quarter as many summers as Dewey. That means they are far less likely to have any use for a Dewey SA if they wouldn't have hired them to support the same number of original staff.

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Guchster
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Guchster » Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:29 pm

I'm curious. Have any Dewey SAs reached out to the recruitment director(s) to ask for updates/status of the summer program--in light of the last two weeks?

At this point, especially with acknowledged talks, they at least owe it to you to tell you that there will probably not be a summer program or offer after this summer.

Regardless, I think the situation is dire enough to outbalance the rudeness/awkwardness of asking about this stuff in most situations.

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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:36 pm

LawIdiot86 wrote:If an SA was hoping to ride the Dewey wave into Greenberg, it will be unlikely. Greenberg's NYC office is half the size of Dewey's, but they take a quarter as many summers as Dewey. That means they are far less likely to have any use for a Dewey SA if they wouldn't have hired them to support the same number of original staff.



I know what you were trying to say. I was being an ass/joking.

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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:51 pm

Guchster wrote:I'm curious. Have any Dewey SAs reached out to the recruitment director(s) to ask for updates/status of the summer program--in light of the last two weeks?

At this point, especially with acknowledged talks, they at least owe it to you to tell you that there will probably not be a summer program or offer after this summer.

Regardless, I think the situation is dire enough to outbalance the rudeness/awkwardness of asking about this stuff in most situations.

What the heck is the recruitment director going to say? The recruitment director doesn't even know if s/he will be employed next week. Calling would be pointless because it's doubtful that anyone in the firm--including the leadership--has any idea whether or not there will be a summer program, because no one knows what the future of the firm will be.

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nygrrrl
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby nygrrrl » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:07 pm

People. BREATHE. Honest to god, the only people who should be posting ANON in this thread are Dewey SAs, 3Ls, etc.
The rest of you have no reason to do so.

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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby dooood » Sat Apr 21, 2012 9:53 am

Desert Fox wrote:I'm not a bankruptcy pro, but when an organization realizes it is going bankrupt, the management has a duty to the debtors. You stop paying unsecured debts and you only pay essential services. They are keeping their cash because getting cash in bankruptcy is hard.

They're called creditors breh - Dewey itself is the debtor, and it's fiduciary duty expands to creditors when it enters the "zone of insolvency." I don't think it's at that point yet, but it doesn't look good.

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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:04 pm

Dewey SAs: if you have not yet been able to find another opportunity for the summer, I want you to know that many firms are empathetic to the Dewey situation. Good luck.

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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Dewey SAs: if you have not yet been able to find another opportunity for the summer, I want you to know that many firms are empathetic to the Dewey situation. Good luck.



If you (or anyone else for that matter) were a Dewey SA for this summer and found something else, can you provide some advice on how you went about contacting firms? If one has already reached out to the other firms that gave them an offer, what should they do at this point?




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