How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

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stratocophic
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby stratocophic » Sat Mar 24, 2012 12:42 pm

romothesavior wrote:
sunynp wrote:http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/03/23/more-partners-leave-dewey-leboeuf/

Six partners at Dewey & LeBoeuf resigned on Friday, the latest is a series of defections at the embattled New York law firm.

The lawyers, who are leaving to join Sutherland Asbill & Brennan, focus on insurance regulation and advise on corporate transactions involving insurance companies.

With the latest departures, Dewey has lost 37 of its 300 partners since January. Its once-vaunted insurance practice has been decimated, as 12 other partners in the group have left the firm last week.
...

The six lawyers leaving for Sutherland are James R. Dwyer, the managing partner of Dewey’s Chicago office; John S. Pruitt and Cynthia R. Shoss, co-chairs of the insurance regulatory department; P. Bruce Wright and Linda A. Sciutow, two tax partners; and Jeffrey H. Mace, an insurance partner.

Oh no guys, the media is just blowing this outta proportion. Dewey is fine, nothing to see here.
Practice group leaders? Pft those guys probably make peanuts and aren't important at all. Plus why is an office manager leaving news, don't they just order supplies and stuff?

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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Mar 24, 2012 12:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Incoming SA here. I know they were expecting more partner departures, but another 6 in one shot? And the head of the Chicago office? I have this nightmare scenario playing over and over in my head where the summer gets cancelled only a few weeks before it starts and I spend the summer on my couch twiddling my thumbs...


sorry to hear. did the firm say anything to the SA class?

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:18 pm

Best wishes to any people with SAs lined up at Dewey. I hope things work out for you all, but this is truly a "there but for the grace of God go [the rest of us 2Ls]" situation.

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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Mar 24, 2012 2:19 pm

I feel just terribly for the 2Ls (and 3Ls) were hoping to get their careers started at Dewey. How were they to know that this would happen? How did they know, when they picked this firm over another, that it could really make life difficult for them. This is SO unfair, and I really want to say sorry to you all. I am a 3L starting at firm this year, but I had an offer from Dewey. I turned it down, mostly based on rankings (not a great reason) and bc I liked some people at the firm I am going to a lot, but still, I just think this is awful for young people at the very start of their careers. If I were them, I would ABSOLUTELY be looking for other jobs. Any other jobs that you can imagine doing. You must watch out for yourself here and the partners are Dewey are much more concerned with their own wellbeing than they are with the income classes. Please, keep an open mind. Think of back up plans, you don't need to official jump ship, but don't just let bad stuff happen to you.

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NinerFan
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby NinerFan » Sat Mar 24, 2012 8:12 pm

http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2012/03/24/ano ... -boutique/

Claims it's not for Dewey's financial woes, but who knows? Another office's managing partner jumps ship.

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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote: If I were them, I would ABSOLUTELY be looking for other jobs.



What can Dewey SAs realistically do at this point? I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I'm honestly looking for what other jobs people think still exist at this point.

I would imagine most doors are closed at this point in the year. Even if the summer program goes on and the SA wants to do 3L OCI, isn't there a stigma and lack of firms willing to take a chance on a full-time offer for a student they have not seen first hand?

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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:17 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote: If I were them, I would ABSOLUTELY be looking for other jobs.



What can Dewey SAs realistically do at this point? I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I'm honestly looking for what other jobs people think still exist at this point.

I am not trying to be sarcastic either, but what is the alternative? Do nothing? That's unacceptable.

I would imagine most doors are closed at this point in the year. Even if the summer program goes on and the SA wants to do 3L OCI, isn't there a stigma and lack of firms willing to take a chance on a full-time offer for a student they have not seen first hand?


So? That's true by definition of anyone who does 3LOLCI -- that's already the status quo. Can you not see how the Dewey summer's situations (whether the SA happens or not, but especially if it does) are actually at least a marginal improvement over that status quo? Doesn't mean it will be easy, but again, what's the alternative?

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sunynp
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby sunynp » Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:42 am

I don't think Dewey SA s will have a "stigma.Dewey is still a respected firm. They have to get an offer and they have to get good recommendations. The issue they will face is if anyone will be hiring. Maybe Dewey SA should seriously consider going for clerkships next year.

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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby run26.2 » Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:49 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote: If I were them, I would ABSOLUTELY be looking for other jobs.



What can Dewey SAs realistically do at this point? I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I'm honestly looking for what other jobs people think still exist at this point.

I am not trying to be sarcastic either, but what is the alternative? Do nothing? That's unacceptable.

I would imagine most doors are closed at this point in the year. Even if the summer program goes on and the SA wants to do 3L OCI, isn't there a stigma and lack of firms willing to take a chance on a full-time offer for a student they have not seen first hand?


So? That's true by definition of anyone who does 3LOLCI -- that's already the status quo. Can you not see how the Dewey summer's situations (whether the SA happens or not, but especially if it does) are actually at least a marginal improvement over that status quo? Doesn't mean it will be easy, but again, what's the alternative?

The stigma will not be that it is someone they have not seen firsthand. As pointed out above, this is true for anyone that seeks a position through 3L OCI, and there are plenty of people that do.

The problem as I see it is that firms want to know you have a good reason for making the switch. Generally "greater prestige" or "more money" aren't the answers that are going to get you the job. "Your firm's not a sinking ship" is basically in that same category. In my experience, good reasons for interviewing at OCI are finding a better fit, seeking a firm with a particular practice group that is strong, needing to be in a different geographical location.

Someone from Dewey could spin this as "I'd like to stay at one firm for my entire career. While at Dewey I worked in ... group. Your firm has a great ... group, and I think its a better long-term fit for me." Or something along those lines.

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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Morgan12Oak » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:22 am

funny anecdote: i actually knew someone who struck out at 2L OCI, but during 3L OCI he/she told the firms that they had a SA lined up at Howrey for 2L summer and then unfortunately it dissolved. They ended up getting an offer. lol

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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:34 am

run26.2 wrote:The stigma will not be that it is someone they have not seen firsthand. As pointed out above, this is true for anyone that seeks a position through 3L OCI, and there are plenty of people that do.

The problem as I see it is that firms want to know you have a good reason for making the switch. Generally "greater prestige" or "more money" aren't the answers that are going to get you the job. "Your firm's not a sinking ship" is basically in that same category. In my experience, good reasons for interviewing at OCI are finding a better fit, seeking a firm with a particular practice group that is strong, needing to be in a different geographical location.

Someone from Dewey could spin this as "I'd like to stay at one firm for my entire career. While at Dewey I worked in ... group. Your firm has a great ... group, and I think its a better long-term fit for me." Or something along those lines.

How is "My summer firm is suffering a huge, public meltdown and may collapse soon" not a "good reason" for switching firms? I think that 3L OCI interviewers will see that someone had a SA at Dewey and understand exactly what is going on. These people will have zero stigma and nothing to explain away or apologize for. They were hired at a reputable firm as 2Ls, which reflects well on them, and then the firm fell apart. Of all the people participating in 3L OCI, Dewey SAs will probably have the least baggage.

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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby romothesavior » Sun Mar 25, 2012 12:13 pm

I disagree with run26. "My firm dissolved/is dissolving" is a pretty good reason, and firms would probably sympathize and be more likely to take a Dewey SA at 3L OCI than a 3L with no SA or maybe even a 3L with an SA at another firm. My anecdotal observations and "through the grapevine" information about Howery certainly indicates this, as I know of a few stories of people landing biglaw as 3Ls after Howery exploded (and this was late in their 3L year too, not OCI, and was in the heart of the worst part of the recession). Would the market absorb all the poor souls from Dewey if things blew up? No. But they certainly wouldn't be locked out because the firm collapsed. If anything, that's a decent reason in conjunction with "I really like your firm and would fit because of XYZ," because it shows you were good enough to land biglaw as a 2L and didn't miss the biglaw opportunity because of merit.

run26.2
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby run26.2 » Sun Mar 25, 2012 12:24 pm

dixiecupdrinking wrote:
run26.2 wrote:The stigma will not be that it is someone they have not seen firsthand. As pointed out above, this is true for anyone that seeks a position through 3L OCI, and there are plenty of people that do.

The problem as I see it is that firms want to know you have a good reason for making the switch. Generally "greater prestige" or "more money" aren't the answers that are going to get you the job. "Your firm's not a sinking ship" is basically in that same category. In my experience, good reasons for interviewing at OCI are finding a better fit, seeking a firm with a particular practice group that is strong, needing to be in a different geographical location.

Someone from Dewey could spin this as "I'd like to stay at one firm for my entire career. While at Dewey I worked in ... group. Your firm has a great ... group, and I think its a better long-term fit for me." Or something along those lines.

How is "My summer firm is suffering a huge, public meltdown and may collapse soon" not a "good reason" for switching firms? I think that 3L OCI interviewers will see that someone had a SA at Dewey and understand exactly what is going on. These people will have zero stigma and nothing to explain away or apologize for. They were hired at a reputable firm as 2Ls, which reflects well on them, and then the firm fell apart. Of all the people participating in 3L OCI, Dewey SAs will probably have the least baggage.

It is a good reason for the candidate, but not necessarily a good reason for the firm. It's not like firms are out there to help you out or have some sense of compassion. I agree that the fact that an individual was hired by a reputable firm will reflect positively on that person. But I also think that a person's odds at 3L OCI increase significantly if a person has a solid offer in hand. It makes the candidate more desirable. It is harder when the person doesn't have a solid offer, because the person seems to be switching out of desperation.

My statement about how a person might state this to a recruiter is to counteract any desperation that might otherwise show through. Both the candidate and the firm will, as you say, understand what is going on. I'm merely trying to say that it is better not to directly state that is the reason why you are looking for a different job, even if it is apparent. This is in-line with Romo's comment as well.

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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby sunynp » Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:43 pm


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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Mar 27, 2012 3:09 pm

run26.2 wrote:My statement about how a person might state this to a recruiter is to counteract any desperation that might otherwise show through. Both the candidate and the firm will, as you say, understand what is going on. I'm merely trying to say that it is better not to directly state that is the reason why you are looking for a different job, even if it is apparent.


Of course. This also applies to people trying to trade up to more prestigious or higher paying firms.

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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:24 am

Incoming Dewey SAs: Have any of put together a "plan B" for the summer yet, just in case?

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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:38 am

Anonymous User wrote:Incoming Dewey SAs: Have any of put together a "plan B" for the summer yet, just in case?


I don't even know how to come up with much of anything at this point. I guess I would call up the judge I interned for last summer and tell him about everything, and see if I could get another or similar internship in the same courthouse. Not ideal though, because of the lack of pay and the narrow focus on litigation/criminal trials. Better than nothing though.

Other options - I guess one could totally stray off that path and look for some volunteer opportunities, even it not strictly "legally" related, to give something to talk about during 3LOCI.

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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby LawIdiot86 » Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:44 am

Anonymous User wrote:Incoming Dewey SAs: Have any of put together a "plan B" for the summer yet, just in case?


I'm not Dewey, but my backup plan if my firm exploded consists of making sure my spring internship would extend me a summer offer if I needed it and getting ready to hit up my professor recommenders and former internship supervisors if I needed an RA position or unpaid internship at the last minute.

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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Guchster » Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Incoming Dewey SAs: Have any of put together a "plan B" for the summer yet, just in case?


I'm very close to a few professors. I might ask them for advice/useful contacts. I'd also be taking advantage of every contact I've ever made--but you should be discreet. It would be awful if Dewey caught you red-handed looking elsewhere before you even start.

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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:59 pm


dixiecupdrinking
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:08 pm

From the outside, who knows what's really happening, but it's hard not to see this as a big shit snowball that's getting bigger and shittier.

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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:24 pm

dixiecupdrinking wrote:From the outside, who knows what's really happening, but it's hard not to see this as a big shit snowball that's getting bigger and shittier.


That's the thing that makes it worse. Seems like no one really know's whats really happening besides the "chairmans office or whatever" (i still find this funny) and maybe a handful of partners. The problem is many people who work there know virtually as little as we do so jumping ship in the uncertainty seems smart.

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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby xcountryjunkie » Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:00 pm

Four more lawyers gone (2 partners, 2 counsel): http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2012/04/03/fou ... y-leboeuf/

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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Morgan12Oak » Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:29 pm

Is there any count on how many associates have left? Do they track this sort of thing?

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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:41 pm

On the bright side, maybe the SAs will all get their offices this summer!




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