How to handle Dewey (or similar firms) Forum
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Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)
Over the weekend, the partner headcount on their website dropped from 260 to 255. Were these carryover from last week or in anticipation of Monday?
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)
What day and time did you pull the 260 count?LawIdiot86 wrote:Over the weekend, the partner headcount on their website dropped from 260 to 255. Were these carryover from last week or in anticipation of Monday?
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)
Friday around noon-ish? Sometime Friday. It was 258 + Chairman + Vice-Chairman. Now it's 253 + Chairman + Vice-Chairman.Anonymous User wrote:What day and time did you pull the 260 count?LawIdiot86 wrote:Over the weekend, the partner headcount on their website dropped from 260 to 255. Were these carryover from last week or in anticipation of Monday?
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)
Not really totally new information, but a good article focusing on incoming associates/SAs:
http://amlawdaily.typepad.com/amlawdail ... limbo.html
http://amlawdaily.typepad.com/amlawdail ... limbo.html
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)
What sort of outreach did you do? Call or email? Any advice you can give would be very, very welcome. I have not had much luck yet...Anonymous User wrote:Dewey SAs: if you have not yet been able to find another opportunity for the summer, I want you to know that many firms are empathetic to the Dewey situation. Good luck.
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)
I heard that a Dewey SA contacted other firms that gave him offers to see if they had any space left a month or two ago when this started to go down. Thankfully, one of them did. Not all firms completely fill up their class. They only get one shot to do their interviews and if they under-offer, they might not meet the class size they budgeted for. Yes they can hold people for awhile, but most of them get snatched up by somewhere else. If you had multiple offers, it doesn't hurt to at least try or even check with your Career Services office to see if they have heard of any firms that didn't get as many SA's as they wanted (they might be a little reluctant because if it got out they were helping you law firms might not be happy). The only thing you have to do from an ethical perspective is, If you get an offer somewhere else, tell Dewey you aren't coming before you accept.Anonymous User wrote:What sort of outreach did you do? Call or email? Any advice you can give would be very, very welcome. I have not had much luck yet...Anonymous User wrote:Dewey SAs: if you have not yet been able to find another opportunity for the summer, I want you to know that many firms are empathetic to the Dewey situation. Good luck.
To those who might think the above is unethical, in normal circumstances I would agree, but Dewey can't even pay for FedEx any more. They are going to be happy not to have to pay $30k this summer to train some 2L who will almost undoubtedly be working somewhere else within the next 1-2 years.
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)
Dewey explicitly told at least one career service office that incoming summers may pursue alternatives. There is nothing even remotely unethical about doing so.Anonymous User wrote:I heard that a Dewey SA contacted other firms that gave him offers to see if they had any space left a month or two ago when this started to go down. Thankfully, one of them did. Not all firms completely fill up their class. They only get one shot to do their interviews and if they under-offer, they might not meet the class size they budgeted for. Yes they can hold people for awhile, but most of them get snatched up by somewhere else. If you had multiple offers, it doesn't hurt to at least try or even check with your Career Services office to see if they have heard of any firms that didn't get as many SA's as they wanted (they might be a little reluctant because if it got out they were helping you law firms might not be happy). The only thing you have to do from an ethical perspective is, If you get an offer somewhere else, tell Dewey you aren't coming before you accept.Anonymous User wrote:What sort of outreach did you do? Call or email? Any advice you can give would be very, very welcome. I have not had much luck yet...Anonymous User wrote:Dewey SAs: if you have not yet been able to find another opportunity for the summer, I want you to know that many firms are empathetic to the Dewey situation. Good luck.
To those who might think the above is unethical, in normal circumstances I would agree, but Dewey can't even pay for FedEx any more. They are going to be happy not to have to pay $30k this summer to train some 2L who will almost undoubtedly be working somewhere else within the next 1-2 years.
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)
Anonymous User wrote: Dewey explicitly told at least one career service office that incoming summers may pursue alternatives. There is nothing even remotely unethical about doing so.
Are you referring to the article regarding new associates and summers posted above, or are you talking about something else? I ask because I don't see "explicit" authorization in that article.
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)
Those of you even questioning the ethics of looking for another position do not understand the concept of at-will employment.
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)
I was not referring to the article.Anonymous User wrote:Anonymous User wrote: Dewey explicitly told at least one career service office that incoming summers may pursue alternatives. There is nothing even remotely unethical about doing so.
Are you referring to the article regarding new associates and summers posted above, or are you talking about something else? I ask because I don't see "explicit" authorization in that article.
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)
Now 254.LawIdiot86 wrote:Friday around noon-ish? Sometime Friday. It was 258 + Chairman + Vice-Chairman. Now it's 253 + Chairman + Vice-Chairman.Anonymous User wrote:What day and time did you pull the 260 count?LawIdiot86 wrote:Over the weekend, the partner headcount on their website dropped from 260 to 255. Were these carryover from last week or in anticipation of Monday?
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)
While the Dewey situation is exceptional, firms might be concerned about accusations of tortious interference, which applies to at-will employment relationships.Anonymous User wrote:Those of you even questioning the ethics of looking for another position do not understand the concept of at-will employment.
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)
I don't know employment law, but what damages would Dewey (or any big firm) be able to prove relative to an SA or first year jumping ship? Wouldn't the damage calculation actually show the other firm had saved them money by letting them avoid the 30k summer cruise or the net negative of first year's from all the training/charge-offs/onboarding costs?Anonymous User wrote:While the Dewey situation is exceptional, firms might be concerned about accusations of tortious interference, which applies to at-will employment relationships.Anonymous User wrote:Those of you even questioning the ethics of looking for another position do not understand the concept of at-will employment.
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)
Protip: an at will employer does not have to "authorize" you to speak with other potential employers. Carry on.Anonymous User wrote:Anonymous User wrote: Dewey explicitly told at least one career service office that incoming summers may pursue alternatives. There is nothing even remotely unethical about doing so.
Are you referring to the article regarding new associates and summers posted above, or are you talking about something else? I ask because I don't see "explicit" authorization in that article.
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)
I don't think there would be much of a case for any legal or equitable remedy here (even if Dewey objected), but in theory punitive damages and injunctions are available (in addition to compensatory damages).LawIdiot86 wrote:I don't know employment law, but what damages would Dewey (or any big firm) be able to prove relative to an SA or first year jumping ship? Wouldn't the damage calculation actually show the other firm had saved them money by letting them avoid the 30k summer cruise or the net negative of first year's from all the training/charge-offs/onboarding costs?Anonymous User wrote:While the Dewey situation is exceptional, firms might be concerned about accusations of tortious interference, which applies to at-will employment relationships.Anonymous User wrote:Those of you even questioning the ethics of looking for another position do not understand the concept of at-will employment.
But Dewey has already authorized summers to look for alternatives, so the point is moot.
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)
This one still doesn't understand at-will employment. All of this is wrong; do not pass go; do not collect $200. And for the love of god, stop talking.Anonymous User wrote:
I don't think there would be much of a case for any legal or equitable remedy here (even if Dewey objected), but in theory punitive damages and injunctions are available (in addition to compensatory damages).
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)
It would either have to be Dewey, Greenberg, Taurig or Greenberg, Taurig, LeBoeuf.Anonymous User wrote:Say hello to Greenberg, Traurig & Dewey?
http://amlawdaily.typepad.com/amlawdail ... tions.html
Governor Dewey wrote in his will that the firm could only use his name if it cam first. This was an issue of some consternation between Orrick and Dewey Ballantine during merger talks and is the reason that the firm is known as Dewey & LeBoeuf despite LeBoeuf basically buying Dewey out.
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)
http://abovethelaw.com/2012/04/dewey-ha ... ferrals/3/
What's the deal with the "Dewey Greenberg" story? Does this article allude only to a spinoff of the European offices into a new "Dewey Greenberg" firm, is is it referencing the whole firm?
What's the deal with the "Dewey Greenberg" story? Does this article allude only to a spinoff of the European offices into a new "Dewey Greenberg" firm, is is it referencing the whole firm?
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)
Greenberg has nothing to gain and everything to lose by merging with Dewey rather than cherry-picking their partners.
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)
Unless GT thinks this is the only way they can get the really big-name partners. Though I'd agree that it's probably a bad idea in the long run.Anonymous User wrote:Greenberg has nothing to gain and everything to lose by merging with Dewey rather than cherry-picking their partners.
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)
A lot of it depends on what the lenders are going to want. They aren't going to get a lot during a Chapter 7. I'm sure any deal will include making key figures in Dewey sign contracts or something.keg411 wrote:Unless GT thinks this is the only way they can get the really big-name partners. Though I'd agree that it's probably a bad idea in the long run.Anonymous User wrote:Greenberg has nothing to gain and everything to lose by merging with Dewey rather than cherry-picking their partners.
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)
It seems there will be more certainty in seven days, if not sooner:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 05900.html
If it asks you to subscribe just google "Dewey & LeBoeuf Faces Debt Deadline"
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 05900.html
If it asks you to subscribe just google "Dewey & LeBoeuf Faces Debt Deadline"
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)
What kind of debt financing do law firms typically use? Do they have substantial assets to secure loans? In a bankruptcy would their creditors mostly be unsecured?
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Re: How to handle Dewey (or similar firms)
Most firms typically don't have the type of debt Dewey does. If firms do have debt its usually revolving credit lines that cover liquidty issues relating to the lag-time between receivables and expenses.
I'd imagine most of these revolving credit lines probably are unsecured if they're small and if they get larger they are probably just secured by receivables. Otherwise, firms don't really have any assets besides human capital so it's hard to imagine what their debt could be secured by.
PRobably a bad sign that firms have large amounts of debt. In hindsight, it looks like Dewey "bought" its prestige with having partners that the firm clearly couldn't afford given its books.
I'd imagine most of these revolving credit lines probably are unsecured if they're small and if they get larger they are probably just secured by receivables. Otherwise, firms don't really have any assets besides human capital so it's hard to imagine what their debt could be secured by.
PRobably a bad sign that firms have large amounts of debt. In hindsight, it looks like Dewey "bought" its prestige with having partners that the firm clearly couldn't afford given its books.
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