TTT and TTTT 2Ls, Please encourage me with stories of hope

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TTT and TTTT 2Ls, Please encourage me with stories of hope

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:20 am

Jobless TTT in top 3%. Need some hope, so if any TTT+s scored a job please let us low-lings know it's possible.

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Re: TTT and TTTT 2Ls, Please encourage me with stories of hope

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:32 am

Work Experience/Market/Law Review ?

LawIdiot86
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Re: TTT and TTTT 2Ls, Please encourage me with stories of hope

Postby LawIdiot86 » Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:35 am

Law jobs (of any type) are not recruiting now. The traditional gamble is to wait until you pass the bar and then hope for doc review or small/shitlaw picking you up to fill a spot. I disagree with that gamble because people in that boat have already lost three times at law (LSAC, 2L OCI, 3L OCI) and are saying they want to bet on getting lucky a fourth time. My advice would be to start looking for jobs that don't require a legal degree (look at the 300-series on USAjobs for a sense of job-type) and jobs that at least offer more security than the alternative (asst. manager of chain stores/restaurants, bank branch representatives, etc).

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Re: TTT and TTTT 2Ls, Please encourage me with stories of hope

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:59 am

I have a friend from a TTT who was just hired by a big firm in Cleveland after graduation for a "staff attorney" job. He was top 5%. Not sure duration or pay. Just know it was a reputable big firm.

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bk1
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Re: TTT and TTTT 2Ls, Please encourage me with stories of hope

Postby bk1 » Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I have a friend from a TTT who was just hired by a big firm in Cleveland after graduation for a "staff attorney" job. He was top 5%. Not sure duration or pay. Just know it was a reputable big firm.


Reputable big firms still hire tons of people just for doc review.

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Re: TTT and TTTT 2Ls, Please encourage me with stories of hope

Postby romothesavior » Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:24 pm

LawIdiot86 wrote:Law jobs (of any type) are not recruiting now.

Oh. I guess my friend was kidding about being on a CB this morning. And I guess my other friend was j/k about the government and prosecution fair she's got this month.

You sound well-informed and helpful. Thank you for clearing that up for me.

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Re: TTT and TTTT 2Ls, Please encourage me with stories of hope

Postby Blindmelon » Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:32 pm

romothesavior wrote:
LawIdiot86 wrote:Law jobs (of any type) are not recruiting now.

Oh. I guess my friend was kidding about being on a CB this morning. And I guess my other friend was j/k about the government and prosecution fair she's got this month.

You sound well-informed and helpful. Thank you for clearing that up for me.


Yea, 3Ls at my T30 are still interviewing for post-3L jobs and some are having success. Its not too late. Keep at it - you have insane grades, I wouldn't be shocked if you came up with something before graduation.

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Re: TTT and TTTT 2Ls, Please encourage me with stories of hope

Postby thexfactor » Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:33 pm

romothesavior wrote:
LawIdiot86 wrote:Law jobs (of any type) are not recruiting now.

Oh. I guess my friend was kidding about being on a CB this morning. And I guess my other friend was j/k about the government and prosecution fair she's got this month.

You sound well-informed and helpful. Thank you for clearing that up for me.


Hey Romo, I think he was just trying to make a statement about how most places don't hire 3Ls. The truth of the matter is that most firms aren't going to go out and recruit now. If some firms have a need, they might be willing to consider exceptional candidates.


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Re: TTT and TTTT 2Ls, Please encourage me with stories of hope

Postby romothesavior » Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:00 pm

Why are we assuming he is a 3L? His thread title even says 2Ls. Sounds like he is a 2L, and telling a 2L no one is hiring now is just absurd.

Also, even if he is a 3L, it's not like no one is hiring. I mean, he is substantially more screwed now if he is a 3L than a 2L, but there are things he should be doing to set himself up for post-bar employment. If the OP wants to practice law and he has the financial means to struggle through those first few years, there is little reason he can't do that. Top 3% at a TTT isn't the worst place to be.

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Re: TTT and TTTT 2Ls, Please encourage me with stories of hope

Postby bizjunkie4 » Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:07 pm

Don't worry, you'll be fine. The idea that there are only two types of jobs out there -- Big Law or Crap Law -- is just not true. Plenty of smaller firms need associates or even of counsel attorneys to share space. Adjust your priorities, look at other options, and network. Big Law is overrated.

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Re: TTT and TTTT 2Ls, Please encourage me with stories of hope

Postby in2win » Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:19 pm

bizjunkie4 wrote:Don't worry, you'll be fine. The idea that there are only two types of jobs out there -- Big Law or Crap Law -- is just not true. Plenty of smaller firms need associates or even of counsel attorneys to share space. Adjust your priorities, look at other options, and network. Big Law is overrated.



bravo

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Re: TTT and TTTT 2Ls, Please encourage me with stories of hope

Postby thexfactor » Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:36 pm

bizjunkie4 wrote:Don't worry, you'll be fine. The idea that there are only two types of jobs out there -- Big Law or Crap Law -- is just not true. Plenty of smaller firms need associates or even of counsel attorneys to share space. Adjust your priorities, look at other options, and network. Big Law is overrated.



Not true. Just check out the bimodal distribution of law salaries. There aren't a lot of those "midlaw" style jobs that don't suck.

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Re: TTT and TTTT 2Ls, Please encourage me with stories of hope

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:07 pm

Some jobs are certainly out there, but the competition is fierce. My friend got dinged from a firm that said they had 330 applicants for 1 position. Odds of even getting an interview in such situation are small. But persistence is the key.

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Re: TTT and TTTT 2Ls, Please encourage me with stories of hope

Postby LawIdiot86 » Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Some jobs are certainly out there, but the competition is fierce. My friend got dinged from a firm that said they had 330 applicants for 1 position. Odds of even getting an interview in such situation are small. But persistence is the key.


Yeah, I was helping a friend, median at a T14 look for gov't work. I found him a fairly obscure, unpaid summer position and he was really into it, until he saw that last year they had 100 applicants for 6 openings.

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Re: TTT and TTTT 2Ls, Please encourage me with stories of hope

Postby Julio_El_Chavo » Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:13 pm

Number of new law graduates per year: 50,000
Number of new law jobs per year: 30,000

50,000 > 30,000

HTH

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Re: TTT and TTTT 2Ls, Please encourage me with stories of hope

Postby spleenworship » Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:15 pm

thexfactor wrote:
bizjunkie4 wrote:Don't worry, you'll be fine. The idea that there are only two types of jobs out there -- Big Law or Crap Law -- is just not true. Plenty of smaller firms need associates or even of counsel attorneys to share space. Adjust your priorities, look at other options, and network. Big Law is overrated.



Not true. Just check out the bimodal distribution of law salaries. There aren't a lot of those "midlaw" style jobs that don't suck.


Disagree. There are a fair number of small and midlaw jobs that work 40-50 hours a week, with plenty of time for family/hobbies/etc. Yeah, they pay low ($45K a year or so), but you know there is other things than money.

Depends on OP's circumstances (debt load/goals/preferred work environment/etc.) really.

TLS tends to do way too much of that "Biglaw or go home" mentality. I think that for a significant number of people, even in the T14, this attitude gets them into jobs they don't like. Sure, paying debt sucks, but if you have a weekend to go to the zoo with your kiddo, and then go home and make out with your significant other before getting a full nights sleep, then making a little less money and servicing a huge debt might be a little more tolerable.

ETA: I think also that way too many people think to themselves "Why would I be a lawyer without a big paycheck?" And I think if you are thinking that, maybe you shouldn't be a lawyer. A big paycheck from biglaw should be a bonus on top of doing work that you enjoy or at the very least fulfills you.

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romothesavior
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Re: TTT and TTTT 2Ls, Please encourage me with stories of hope

Postby romothesavior » Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:49 pm

spleenworship wrote:Disagree. There are a fair number of small and midlaw jobs that work 40-50 hours a week, with plenty of time for family/hobbies/etc. Yeah, they pay low ($45K a year or so), but you know there is other things than money.

I think the attorneys who work at the firms you're thinking of would be insulted that you think they only work 40-50 hours a week. Few people in private practice are working a 9-5 schedule.

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Re: TTT and TTTT 2Ls, Please encourage me with stories of hope

Postby LawIdiot86 » Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:01 pm

romothesavior wrote:
spleenworship wrote:Disagree. There are a fair number of small and midlaw jobs that work 40-50 hours a week, with plenty of time for family/hobbies/etc. Yeah, they pay low ($45K a year or so), but you know there is other things than money.

I think the attorneys who work at the firms you're thinking of would be insulted that you think they only work 40-50 hours a week. Few people in private practice are working a 9-5 schedule.


I agree. If you're working in a firm of 2-15 lawyers making 45k a year, you're probably working 60-70 hours a week even if you're only billing 40-50.

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Re: TTT and TTTT 2Ls, Please encourage me with stories of hope

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:15 pm

Julio_El_Chavo wrote:Number of new law graduates per year: 50,000
Number of new law jobs per year: 30,000

50,000 > 30,000

HTH



Any how many of the 30,000 are not crap law?

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Re: TTT and TTTT 2Ls, Please encourage me with stories of hope

Postby LawIdiot86 » Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Julio_El_Chavo wrote:Number of new law graduates per year: 50,000
Number of new law jobs per year: 30,000

50,000 > 30,000

HTH



Any how many of the 30,000 are not crap law?


About 5,500 are ideal, maybe another 10,000 are bearable.

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Re: TTT and TTTT 2Ls, Please encourage me with stories of hope

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:24 pm

LawIdiot86 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Julio_El_Chavo wrote:Number of new law graduates per year: 50,000
Number of new law jobs per year: 30,000

50,000 > 30,000

HTH



Any how many of the 30,000 are not crap law?


About 5,500 are ideal, maybe another 10,000 are bearable.



So therein lies the answer of why there are so many applicants for the few private practice gigs remaining.

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Re: TTT and TTTT 2Ls, Please encourage me with stories of hope

Postby LawIdiot86 » Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:38 pm

thexfactor wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
LawIdiot86 wrote:Law jobs (of any type) are not recruiting now.

Oh. I guess my friend was kidding about being on a CB this morning. And I guess my other friend was j/k about the government and prosecution fair she's got this month.

You sound well-informed and helpful. Thank you for clearing that up for me.


Hey Romo, I think he was just trying to make a statement about how most places don't hire 3Ls. The truth of the matter is that most firms aren't going to go out and recruit now. If some firms have a need, they might be willing to consider exceptional candidates.


Yes, I was referencing 3L hiring and 2L hiring that is likely to lead to post-graduation employment. I didn't get my 2L position until about now, paid government, but they were very clear it did not include the opportunity for post-graduation employment. I'm sure there are plenty of job fairs staffed with HR people who have been told to hand out brochures touting their agency and to collect 500 resumes to come back and make two offers for unpaid internships. Everything at this point for 2Ls will be be internships without graduation potential and for 3Ls there won't be any significant opportunities until graduation/bar pass.

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Re: TTT and TTTT 2Ls, Please encourage me with stories of hope

Postby romothesavior » Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:57 pm

LawIdiot86 wrote:Everything at this point for 2Ls will be be internships without graduation potential and for 3Ls there won't be any significant opportunities until graduation/bar pass.

That is flat out false.

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Re: TTT and TTTT 2Ls, Please encourage me with stories of hope

Postby LawIdiot86 » Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:10 pm

romothesavior wrote:
LawIdiot86 wrote:Everything at this point for 2Ls will be be internships without graduation potential and for 3Ls there won't be any significant opportunities until graduation/bar pass.

That is flat out false.


I just looked through my school's 40 most recent 2L position postings. Of them I saw one or two that I know have graduation potential and well over 20 I am certain do not. Also, the 20 most recent 3L postings were all for international LL.Ms, IP or 2-10 lawyer firms looking for people who graduated last May/this December.




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