Jerbless 3Ls, how we doing?

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
LawIdiot86
Posts: 1159
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:21 pm

Re: Jerbless 3Ls, how we doing?

Postby LawIdiot86 » Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
romothesavior wrote:How does someone "significantly above" median at a T6 wind up jobless? Genuinely curious. What do you think hurt you in your job hunt? Were you no-offered as a 2L SA?


I was median after 1L year, so I went into our OCI with median grades. That's when hiring happens and when your grades really give you the best leg up. Had I gone in with my current GPA after 2.5 semesters I have no doubt I would have gotten an offer. I am also straight through with no WE and bid very poorly. I worked for the government during 2L summer and there is no word on whether that agency will have anything full time and if they do they'll probably be able to fill those slots with experienced hires.

There are simply a lack of opportunities outside of the normal "hiring bonanzas" of 2L OCI, fed gov, and the really limited offerings in 3L OCI. If you fuck that up it can get very bad. After that it comes down to numbers- how many job openings can you find and apply to. And there are very few of those right now. Maybe some will open up later.

Right, I get all that. I'm a 2L so I know how the system works. But a median at student at CCN should have great odds at OCI, so I'm asking you what it is you thought you did that hurt you in your job hunt. Sounds like it was a poor bidding strategy that did you in?


I would probably chalk it up to the combination of no WE (this is huge when you are part of the undifferentiated mass of people with mediocre grades) + average interviewing + poor bidding. One thing I did not do was really go out and try to press people on what firms were in my grade range. That means asking follow up questions, getting multiple perspectives, and not taking anything at face value.

For example, I partially bid on a home market where I have pretty good ties. I asked a 2L student with a job in the market what grades he had. Not very good, he said. After OCI, I found out to him "not very good" grades apparently meant top quarter. I just didn't press him on what his grades were because you're not supposed to ask people about those things.
I ended up wasting about 16 interviews on that market with 0 callbacks.

And if you have work experience you get a huge boost. I would rather be around bottom 1/3 with no work experience than median without it. Language skills were huge too. I know someone with two B- range grades, thought to be the kiss of death, who snagged a job with a V20 on the basis of knowing an in-demand language.

Basically, if you look at your resume and the only noteworthy thing about you is "I go to X top law school" you are in serious trouble- because the other few dozen people they are seeing that week also went to X top law school.


Why were you asking fellow students for GPA ranges? As far as Columbia goes, we know they have GPA ranges down to a science and I would be shocked to hear Chi and NYU have no GPA data available to bidder students.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273446
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Jerbless 3Ls, how we doing?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:29 pm

LawIdiot86 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
LawIdiot86 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Has anyone tried cold-emailing alumni? My CSO keeps pushing me to do it but I'm not sure it's ever going to pay off especially at this late date. I think that's all they really have for me.


I tried 1,200 the summer before OCI. Got 60 coffee meetings out of that and maybe 2-3 interviews. At this late a date, I would say doing it just to network pre-3L OCI.
LawIdiot86 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Has anyone tried cold-emailing alumni? My CSO keeps pushing me to do it but I'm not sure it's ever going to pay off especially at this late date. I think that's all they really have for me.


I tried 1,200 the summer before OCI. Got 60 coffee meetings out of that and maybe 2-3 interviews. At this late a date, I would say doing it just to network pre-3L OCI.


Alot of people tend to be down on networking, but isn't there something to be said for knowing at least some people rather than none?


There is nearly nothing to be said for knowing people because the people you know, know hundreds of people. There is something to be said to being close friends with people or having some personal connection.


I totally agree. I don't want you to think I meant just establishing contact; I meant networking as in building networks.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273446
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Jerbless 3Ls, how we doing?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:55 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I would probably chalk it up to the combination of no WE (this is huge when you are part of the undifferentiated mass of people with mediocre grades) + average interviewing + poor bidding. One thing I did not do was really go out and try to press people on what firms were in my grade range. That means asking follow up questions, getting multiple perspectives, and not taking anything at face value.

For example, I partially bid on a home market where I have pretty good ties. I asked a 2L student with a job in the market what grades he had. Not very good, he said. After OCI, I found out to him "not very good" grades apparently meant top quarter. I just didn't press him on what his grades were because you're not supposed to ask people about those things.
I ended up wasting about 16 interviews on that market with 0 callbacks.

And if you have work experience you get a huge boost. I would rather be around bottom 1/3 with no work experience than median without it. Language skills were huge too. I know someone with two B- range grades, thought to be the kiss of death, who snagged a job with a V20 on the basis of knowing an in-demand language.

Basically, if you look at your resume and the only noteworthy thing about you is "I go to X top law school" you are in serious trouble- because the other few dozen people they are seeing that week also went to X top law school.


Was the "in demand" language something learnable like Spanish? Or was it something like Mandarin?


Think Russian, Mandarin, Japanese, Arabic.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273446
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Jerbless 3Ls, how we doing?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:12 am

LawIdiot86 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
I would probably chalk it up to the combination of no WE (this is huge when you are part of the undifferentiated mass of people with mediocre grades) + average interviewing + poor bidding. One thing I did not do was really go out and try to press people on what firms were in my grade range. That means asking follow up questions, getting multiple perspectives, and not taking anything at face value.

For example, I partially bid on a home market where I have pretty good ties. I asked a 2L student with a job in the market what grades he had. Not very good, he said. After OCI, I found out to him "not very good" grades apparently meant top quarter. I just didn't press him on what his grades were because you're not supposed to ask people about those things.
I ended up wasting about 16 interviews on that market with 0 callbacks.

And if you have work experience you get a huge boost. I would rather be around bottom 1/3 with no work experience than median without it. Language skills were huge too. I know someone with two B- range grades, thought to be the kiss of death, who snagged a job with a V20 on the basis of knowing an in-demand language.

Basically, if you look at your resume and the only noteworthy thing about you is "I go to X top law school" you are in serious trouble- because the other few dozen people they are seeing that week also went to X top law school.


Why were you asking fellow students for GPA ranges? As far as Columbia goes, we know they have GPA ranges down to a science and I would be shocked to hear Chi and NYU have no GPA data available to bidder students.


Columbia is very coy, even to students about to do EIP, about firm GPA cutoffs. They basically just divide the class into "top 1/3" or "not top 1/3" which is not super-helpful since so many students fall into the bottom 2/3rd (and the top 1/3 don't need very much help beyond basic common sense bidding and a modicum of personality). And their information doesn't really tell you what grades it would take to get an offer in a smaller market. Do firms have hard cutoffs at a 3.2? 3.1? A lot of people can waste screeners bidding on firms they aren't competitive for.




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.