What Would You Choose?

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Anonymous User
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What Would You Choose?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:14 pm

Anon because based on a true story.

Option 1: Associate Midlaw. Low 6 figures + extremely generous benefits. 1900-2000 hours.

Option 2: Associate Smallaw (5-50 people). 85-105k Depending on personal (business generated if any) and firm (gross moneys received) performance. No benefits. No billable requirement but workload would likely be similar to a firm with 1800 expected. Instant management responsibility, decent chance of taking over the firm some day. Firm is quite profitable.

I ask for teh thoughts of teh interwebz in this matter.

Anonymous User
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Re: What Would You Choose?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:18 pm

Option 1

dixon02
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Re: What Would You Choose?

Postby dixon02 » Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Anon because based on a true story.

Option 1: Associate Midlaw. Low 6 figures + extremely generous benefits. 1900-2000 hours.

Option 2: Associate Smallaw (5-50 people). 85-105k Depending on personal (business generated if any) and firm (gross moneys received) performance. No benefits. No billable requirement but workload would likely be similar to a firm with 1800 expected. Instant management responsibility, decent chance of taking over the firm some day. Firm is quite profitable.

I ask for teh thoughts of teh interwebz in this matter.


Bolded would make the decision easy for me.

bdubs
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Re: What Would You Choose?

Postby bdubs » Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:22 pm

Assuming that "low six figures" means something along the lines of 110, you would be risking $25,000 in compensation for an expectation that you would work 100-200 hours more per year (assuming that admin tasks are fixed). This means you would be giving up $125-250 per hour in compensation to go to the small firm with arguably better tasks/responsibilities.

It just doesn't seem very rational to choose Option 2.

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ben4847
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Re: What Would You Choose?

Postby ben4847 » Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:23 pm

Option 1

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Re: What Would You Choose?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:25 pm

bdubs wrote:Assuming that "low six figures" means something along the lines of 110, you would be risking $25,000 in compensation for an expectation that you would work 100-200 hours more per year (assuming that admin tasks are fixed). This means you would be giving up $125-250 per hour in compensation to go to the small firm with arguably better tasks/responsibilities.

It just doesn't seem very rational to choose Option 2.


Your assumption of income is a good one. The tempting thing is (1) not being anyone's b****. Technically the managing attorney of the firm would have authority over me but he isn't real involved in the day-to-day layering. Also, I'd have a fair amount of say over what my schedule is, how the firm is run etc since most of the individuals that work there aren't attorneys or are coverage attorneys and not associates (2) I wants me my own firm.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Cupidity
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Re: What Would You Choose?

Postby Cupidity » Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:25 pm

The fact you are asking this makes me believe that you imagine the work at the second firm to be better, is that so? I mean, sure, its several thousand dollars a year difference, but if the practice is much cooler, and you are working fewer hours, I'd say go for it. I'd take a cool enough job at $80k over a larger firm at $120k any day.

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Re: What Would You Choose?

Postby Cupidity » Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:27 pm

Keep in mind, everyone says, "suck it up and take the money for a few years then lateral or exit and do something cooler. . ." by that point you are 30, who cares how much money you have when you are 30, you are old, life sucks regardless.

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Re: What Would You Choose?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:28 pm

Cupidity wrote:The fact you are asking this makes me believe that you imagine the work at the second firm to be better, is that so? I mean, sure, its several thousand dollars a year difference, but if the practice is much cooler, and you are working fewer hours, I'd say go for it. I'd take a cool enough job at $80k over a larger firm at $120k any day.


The second firm is way cool. Real law and order shit. I know this because I've worked there. The second firm I am going to be an SA at so I have no objective way of assessing. It seems like a good place and I've heard from everyone that the people are really nice. The work seems to be interesting but more paperwork and than the first firm (I'd rather do other sorts of legal work than paperwork).

Keep in mind, everyone says, "suck it up and take the money for a few years then lateral or exit and do something cooler. . ." by that point you are 30, who cares how much money you have when you are 30, you are old, life sucks regardless.


Lol.

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Re: What Would You Choose?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:36 pm

How likely is "hours creep"?

Only take Option 2 if you think that the work (regardless of hours and pay) is really that much better.

The hours will probably creep up, thus you will be earning less money for the same, if not more, hours (right now you're citing 1800 vs. 1900-2000; not that big a difference over the course of a year) - so the work at Option 2 should be something you really like.

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Re: What Would You Choose?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote:How likely is "hours creep"?

Only take Option 2 if you think that the work (regardless of hours and pay) is really that much better.

The hours will probably creep up, thus you will be earning less money for the same, if not more, hours (right now you're citing 1800 vs. 1900-2000; not that big a difference over the course of a year) - so the work at Option 2 should be something you really like.


Its possible but I've never seen anyone at place 1 stay past 5:00. I mean, if I'm gunning for eventually managing or taking over the firm maybe I'll purposefully engage in some hours creep to make myself indispensable.

keg411
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Re: What Would You Choose?

Postby keg411 » Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:50 pm

Cupidity wrote:Keep in mind, everyone says, "suck it up and take the money for a few years then lateral or exit and do something cooler. . ." by that point you are 30, who cares how much money you have when you are 30, you are old, life sucks regardless.


:| :| :|

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ben4847
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Re: What Would You Choose?

Postby ben4847 » Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:51 pm

Cupidity wrote:Keep in mind, everyone says, "suck it up and take the money for a few years then lateral or exit and do something cooler. . ." by that point you are 30, who cares how much money you have when you are 30, you are old, life sucks regardless.


I'll be 30 by the time I graduate. May as well go to the big firm.

chiwachiwa
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Re: What Would You Choose?

Postby chiwachiwa » Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:06 pm

ben4847 wrote:
Cupidity wrote:Keep in mind, everyone says, "suck it up and take the money for a few years then lateral or exit and do something cooler. . ." by that point you are 30, who cares how much money you have when you are 30, you are old, life sucks regardless.


I'll be 30 by the time I graduate. May as well go to the big firm glue factory.

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traehekat
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Re: What Would You Choose?

Postby traehekat » Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:08 pm

Option 1, absolutely. Why not make this a poll, btw?

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Re: What Would You Choose?

Postby vamedic03 » Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
bdubs wrote:Assuming that "low six figures" means something along the lines of 110, you would be risking $25,000 in compensation for an expectation that you would work 100-200 hours more per year (assuming that admin tasks are fixed). This means you would be giving up $125-250 per hour in compensation to go to the small firm with arguably better tasks/responsibilities.

It just doesn't seem very rational to choose Option 2.


Your assumption of income is a good one. The tempting thing is (1) not being anyone's b****. Technically the managing attorney of the firm would have authority over me but he isn't real involved in the day-to-day layering. Also, I'd have a fair amount of say over what my schedule is, how the firm is run etc since most of the individuals that work there aren't attorneys or are coverage attorneys and not associates (2) I wants me my own firm.


Anyone who thinks they are ready as a new grad to do "day-to-day lawyering" without any supervision is either foolhardy or delusional.

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Re: What Would You Choose?

Postby Cupidity » Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:11 pm

keg411 wrote:
Cupidity wrote:Keep in mind, everyone says, "suck it up and take the money for a few years then lateral or exit and do something cooler. . ." by that point you are 30, who cares how much money you have when you are 30, you are old, life sucks regardless.


:| :| :|


It just bums me out to see how many of my friends are going to live miserable lives from the time they are 25-35, just so they can have a higher standard of living when they hit 40, and have kids.

I worked minimum wage in college and lived on the beach. Life can be awesome without a ton of money.

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Re: What Would You Choose?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:38 pm

vamedic03 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
bdubs wrote:Assuming that "low six figures" means something along the lines of 110, you would be risking $25,000 in compensation for an expectation that you would work 100-200 hours more per year (assuming that admin tasks are fixed). This means you would be giving up $125-250 per hour in compensation to go to the small firm with arguably better tasks/responsibilities.

It just doesn't seem very rational to choose Option 2.


Your assumption of income is a good one. The tempting thing is (1) not being anyone's b****. Technically the managing attorney of the firm would have authority over me but he isn't real involved in the day-to-day layering. Also, I'd have a fair amount of say over what my schedule is, how the firm is run etc since most of the individuals that work there aren't attorneys or are coverage attorneys and not associates (2) I wants me my own firm.


Anyone who thinks they are ready as a new grad to do "day-to-day lawyering" without any supervision is either foolhardy or delusional.


Well, I'd still have very experienced paralegals supporting me and access to my boss if I needed advice. So basically, support when I want it without people getting up in my business when I don't.

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vamedic03
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Re: What Would You Choose?

Postby vamedic03 » Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:01 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
vamedic03 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
bdubs wrote:Assuming that "low six figures" means something along the lines of 110, you would be risking $25,000 in compensation for an expectation that you would work 100-200 hours more per year (assuming that admin tasks are fixed). This means you would be giving up $125-250 per hour in compensation to go to the small firm with arguably better tasks/responsibilities.

It just doesn't seem very rational to choose Option 2.


Your assumption of income is a good one. The tempting thing is (1) not being anyone's b****. Technically the managing attorney of the firm would have authority over me but he isn't real involved in the day-to-day layering. Also, I'd have a fair amount of say over what my schedule is, how the firm is run etc since most of the individuals that work there aren't attorneys or are coverage attorneys and not associates (2) I wants me my own firm.


Anyone who thinks they are ready as a new grad to do "day-to-day lawyering" without any supervision is either foolhardy or delusional.


Well, I'd still have very experienced paralegals supporting me and access to my boss if I needed advice. So basically, support when I want it without people getting up in my business when I don't.


It's not about adequate support. It's about adequate supervision. A brand new attorney needs support and supervision. A brand new professional (in any profession) needs supervision to learn both the profession and when they need help. The risk of being a brand new attorney without supervision is not being able to recognize when you need help. And a good supervisor who "gets up in your business" keeps you from committing malpractice.

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Re: What Would You Choose?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:02 pm

It's not about adequate support. It's about adequate supervision. A brand new attorney needs support and supervision. A brand new professional (in any profession) needs supervision to learn both the profession and when they need help. The risk of being a brand new attorney without supervision is not being able to recognize when you need help. And a good supervisor who "gets up in your business" keeps you from committing malpractice.


A good point, although most attorneys at this level (though obviously not the ones in my office) get by with such crap work that its hard to think what actually might qualify as malpractice.

TopGun1234
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Re: What Would You Choose?

Postby TopGun1234 » Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:48 pm

Cupidity wrote:
keg411 wrote:
Cupidity wrote:Keep in mind, everyone says, "suck it up and take the money for a few years then lateral or exit and do something cooler. . ." by that point you are 30, who cares how much money you have when you are 30, you are old, life sucks regardless.


:| :| :|


It just bums me out to see how many of my friends are going to live miserable lives from the time they are 25-35, just so they can have a higher standard of living when they hit 40, and have kids.

I worked minimum wage in college and lived on the beach. Life can be awesome without a ton of money.


Hey cupidity - looking at your other posts it seems like you too wanted a big law job. I bet anything you couldn't get one and now you are just being bitter.

SUCO
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Re: What Would You Choose?

Postby SUCO » Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:15 am

TopGun1234 wrote:
Cupidity wrote:
keg411 wrote:
Cupidity wrote:Keep in mind, everyone says, "suck it up and take the money for a few years then lateral or exit and do something cooler. . ." by that point you are 30, who cares how much money you have when you are 30, you are old, life sucks regardless.


:| :| :|


It just bums me out to see how many of my friends are going to live miserable lives from the time they are 25-35, just so they can have a higher standard of living when they hit 40, and have kids.

I worked minimum wage in college and lived on the beach. Life can be awesome without a ton of money.


Hey cupidity - looking at your other posts it seems like you too wanted a big law job. I bet anything you couldn't get one and now you are just being bitter.


First post and bringing the heat! :P




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