Top 50 go-to law schools 2012

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keg411
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Re: Top 50 go-to law schools 2012

Postby keg411 » Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:47 pm

rayiner wrote:I think Michigan's size and lack of proximity to a major city do hurt it in crisis situations like ITE.


I would agree with this; and add to that Michigan has a much larger public interest contingent than CLS/Penn (although I'm guessing they're somewhat on par with NYU).

Also: Yale's numbers tend to be shitty on these lists because BigLaw is a backup for most of the people that go there. That Harvard's NLJ numbers were as high as they were should actually be disconcerting because that means a smaller percentage of the class ended up clerking/doing other way-more-prestigious non-BigLaw jobs.

twistedwrister
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Re: Top 50 go-to law schools 2012

Postby twistedwrister » Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:52 pm

r6_philly wrote:
twistedwrister wrote:Note that many of the schools that place highly on this list tend to send a low % of graduates to PI and government. For example, in 2010, Penn, Chicago, and Northwestern each sent about 8-9% into PI and government work. By contrast, Yale, NYU, Michigan, and Virginia sent about 20% of the class into that kind of work.

Source: 2010 employment data (http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=174447)


Is it because they self-select into or they can't land a biglaw job? I am sure it's a healthy mix, but you it's not dispositive looking at the numbers. There are also different levels of PI and government. Law clerk at traffic court is also PI/Government.


That's why I said "tend." I only mentioned and cited 2010 data, but Penn, Chicago, and NW have never sent a high % of the class into PI and government. Yale, NYU, etc. almost always do (and did, pre-ITE). Although more grads from every school are now working in PI and government out of necessity, the historical difference in student body focus is real.
Last edited by twistedwrister on Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

rad lulz
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Re: Top 50 go-to law schools 2012

Postby rad lulz » Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:54 pm

Technically a traffic court clerkship isn't govt./PI, it's "clerkship."

r6_philly
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Re: Top 50 go-to law schools 2012

Postby r6_philly » Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:03 pm

rad lulz wrote:Technically a traffic court clerkship isn't govt./PI, it's "clerkship."


Is it? A traffic law clerk is pretty much an administrative assistant. Well anyway, my point was valid, example was bad.

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Sherwood2014
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Re: Top 50 go-to law schools 2012

Postby Sherwood2014 » Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:07 pm

IAFG wrote:I would bet NYU's 2013 class has 80%+ NLJ250 placement.

Using my Mitt Romney voice and hand shake gesture. . before I take you up on that $10K bet claiming NYU is going from 40% to 80%. . . was this Crystal Ball of yours purchased at Walmart or Neiman Marcus?

lobolawyer
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Re: Top 50 go-to law schools 2012

Postby lobolawyer » Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:13 pm

coldshoulder wrote:What I find interesting is that in certain secondary markets (for example, Salt Lake City) employment is pretty good, but the lawl schools place very few candidates into NLJ250 jobs (coming from LST). I'd rather have a median private sector job in Utah (80k) than need to be top 10%-20% at most other T50 schools to try to get biglaw in a major market.



This was my rationale when I chose my law school, and it paid off better than expected.

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romothesavior
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Re: Top 50 go-to law schools 2012

Postby romothesavior » Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:18 pm

Sherwood2014 wrote:
IAFG wrote:I would bet NYU's 2013 class has 80%+ NLJ250 placement.

Using my Mitt Romney voice and hand shake gesture. . before I take you up on that $10K bet claiming NYU is going from 40% to 80%. . . was this Crystal Ball of yours purchased at Walmart or Neiman Marcus?

80%+ with an NLJ250 SA, not that 80%+ will actually be reflected in the NLJ 250 data in a few years (so 80% - clerkships and no-offers).

I think IAFG is exaggerating a bit, but I wouldn't be surprised if 80% who actually sought them have NLJ firm jobs or comparable.

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Julio_El_Chavo
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Re: Top 50 go-to law schools 2012

Postby Julio_El_Chavo » Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:20 pm

lobolawyer wrote:
coldshoulder wrote:What I find interesting is that in certain secondary markets (for example, Salt Lake City) employment is pretty good, but the lawl schools place very few candidates into NLJ250 jobs (coming from LST). I'd rather have a median private sector job in Utah (80k) than need to be top 10%-20% at most other T50 schools to try to get biglaw in a major market.



This was my rationale when I chose my law school, and it paid off better than expected.


Congratulations. You must be very proud of yourself.

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IAFG
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Re: Top 50 go-to law schools 2012

Postby IAFG » Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:23 pm

romothesavior wrote:
Sherwood2014 wrote:
IAFG wrote:I would bet NYU's 2013 class has 80%+ NLJ250 placement.

Using my Mitt Romney voice and hand shake gesture. . before I take you up on that $10K bet claiming NYU is going from 40% to 80%. . . was this Crystal Ball of yours purchased at Walmart or Neiman Marcus?

80%+ with an NLJ250 SA, not that 80%+ will actually be reflected in the NLJ 250 data in a few years (so 80% - clerkships and no-offers).

I think IAFG is exaggerating a bit, but I wouldn't be surprised if 80% who actually sought them have NLJ firm jobs or comparable.

true, i did mean more SA, or NLJ250 + AIII.

Anonymous User
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Re: Top 50 go-to law schools 2012

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:33 pm

Well these numbers represent an OCI that was conducted in 2009, so it is expectedly awful. But luckily these figures are just a snapshot of the past. Many of the schools in the strongest markets will see strong upticks as we get the data from the class of 2012 (OCI in 2010) and especially class of 2013 (OCI in 2011). I would expect Columbia and NYU to both be among the top 5 once you get to class of 2013 figures in 2 years, and I expect Penn to remain high given the large placement they have into NYC. I go to one of the NYC schools, and I have many friends and acquaintances from both. My sample is undoubtedly skewed, but every single person for whom I have ever inquired into job situation (probably adds up to something like 25 people) is employed by a Vault firm, aside from one person who is still looking.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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skers
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Re: Top 50 go-to law schools 2012

Postby skers » Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:35 pm

Fuck. All I can say is thank Christ I didn't do OCI 09. Michigan 31% NLJ250 at Michigan? Goddamn.

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emptyflare
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Re: Top 50 go-to law schools 2012

Postby emptyflare » Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:39 pm

!!!
Last edited by emptyflare on Fri May 11, 2012 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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skers
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Re: Top 50 go-to law schools 2012

Postby skers » Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:34 pm

Bored at work; decided to do some math. This isn't as useful without NLJ250+A3, but here are the averages 07-11.

Y-34.86
H-52.96
S-50.29
C-61.63
C-59.81
N-54.34
M-47.27
V-50.93
P-59.54
Boalt-51.56
D-49.91
NW-57.75
Cornell-52.46
GULC-41.79

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IAFG
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Re: Top 50 go-to law schools 2012

Postby IAFG » Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:53 pm

TemporarySaint wrote:Bored at work; decided to do some math. This isn't as useful without NLJ250+A3, but here are the averages 07-11.

Y-34.86
H-52.96
S-50.29
C-61.63
C-59.81
N-54.34
M-47.27
V-50.93
P-59.54
Boalt-51.56
D-49.91
NW-57.75
Cornell-52.46
GULC-41.79

Where is the 07 data?

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Bronck
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Re: Top 50 go-to law schools 2012

Postby Bronck » Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:59 pm

IAFG wrote:
TemporarySaint wrote:Bored at work; decided to do some math. This isn't as useful without NLJ250+A3, but here are the averages 07-11.

Y-34.86
H-52.96
S-50.29
C-61.63
C-59.81
N-54.34
M-47.27
V-50.93
P-59.54
Boalt-51.56
D-49.91
NW-57.75
Cornell-52.46
GULC-41.79

Where is the 07 data?


This should be it: http://www.law.com/img/nlj/charts/20080 ... chools.jpg

Black-Blue
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Re: Top 50 go-to law schools 2012

Postby Black-Blue » Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:03 pm

emptyflare wrote:Wow, William & Mary isn't on the list this year

Not surprising, considering that the DC market has been absolutely brutal.

DC and Midwest schools are doing poor according to that list.

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Julio_El_Chavo
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Re: Top 50 go-to law schools 2012

Postby Julio_El_Chavo » Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:30 pm

Black-Blue wrote:
emptyflare wrote:Wow, William & Mary isn't on the list this year

Not surprising, considering that the DC market has been absolutely brutal.

DC and Midwest schools are doing poor according to that list.


W&M places at most 5% of its class into DC biglaw, even in good years.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: Top 50 go-to law schools 2012

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:36 pm

Yeah W&M is not, and never was, a DC school.

It's pretty interesting to see how, outside the T14, schools with smaller classes seem to dominate the rest of the go-to law schools. While it's obvious as to why that is, it's still fascinating to see how small some of the class sizes are at some schools.

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Sherwood2014
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Re: Top 50 go-to law schools 2012

Postby Sherwood2014 » Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:48 pm

IAFG wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
Sherwood2014 wrote:
IAFG wrote:I would bet NYU's 2013 class has 80%+ NLJ250 placement.

Using my Mitt Romney voice and hand shake gesture. . before I take you up on that $10K bet claiming NYU is going from 40% to 80%. . . was this Crystal Ball of yours purchased at Walmart or Neiman Marcus?

80%+ with an NLJ250 SA, not that 80%+ will actually be reflected in the NLJ 250 data in a few years (so 80% - clerkships and no-offers).

I think IAFG is exaggerating a bit, but I wouldn't be surprised if 80% who actually sought them have NLJ firm jobs or comparable.

true, i did mean more SA, or NLJ250 + AIII.

Yeah, yeah, that's the exact same line Gov. Rick Perry used on me. . .

Isn’t the 2013 USNWR LSR due out soon? I thought it came out around this time last year. If the Go To rankings are any factor whatsoever, NYU could be on the cusp of MVN.

09042014
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Re: Top 50 go-to law schools 2012

Postby 09042014 » Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:55 pm

US News ranks are worthless. HYS >> CCN > MVPBDNC > G > top regional (UT, Vandy, USC, UCLA) >>>TTT

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romothesavior
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Re: Top 50 go-to law schools 2012

Postby romothesavior » Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:58 pm

NLJ doesn't affect USNWR. Their job data is the ABA data.

In fact, expect some weird things in the USNWR rankings this year. The ABA updated their standards for job reporting, but some schools conveniently used the old standards. For example, a few T20s will be reporting 95%+ employed at 9 months, while WUSTL will be at like 80% because we used the new standards. There is concern we may fall in the rankings as a result.

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JusticeHarlan
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Re: Top 50 go-to law schools 2012

Postby JusticeHarlan » Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:06 pm

Black-Blue wrote:
emptyflare wrote:Wow, William & Mary isn't on the list this year

Not surprising, considering that the DC market has been absolutely brutal.

DC and Midwest schools are doing poor according to that list.

Well, Washington & Lee is on the list (#25), and I always had the impression they were pretty peer schools. Odd.

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pugilistjd
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Re: Top 50 go-to law schools 2012

Postby pugilistjd » Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:10 pm

I love how TLSers rightly laugh at employment stats published by law schools that are based small respondent pools but then piss their chinos over a report with no respondent data at all.

MrAnon
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Re: Top 50 go-to law schools 2012

Postby MrAnon » Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:12 pm

pugilistjd wrote:I love how TLSers rightly laugh at employment stats published by law schools that are based small respondent pools but then piss their chinos over a report with no respondent data at all.


huh? The nature of the reports are entirely different.

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Bronck
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Re: Top 50 go-to law schools 2012

Postby Bronck » Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:14 pm

pugilistjd wrote:I love how TLSers rightly laugh at employment stats published by law schools that are based small respondent pools but then piss their chinos over a report with no respondent data at all.


What? They get the data from firms... add up the number for each school... and then divide by class size.

It's not like this is unreliable data.




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