Thinking of ditching one of my summer firms

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Thinking of ditching one of my summer firms

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:50 am

2L. So I originally accepted one firm that was my DREAM firm, dream area (San Francisco), awesome practice group, great compensation, staff that wanted me (recruited me like crazy-- they told me over the phone that the callback would basically be a formality to "lock me up," were super happy to take calls whenever to talk about the firm, were PISSED when they heard that I was considering an offer from one of their peer firms), great match with my work experience, REALLY hard to get into.)

So I eventually dropped all other offers and committed to the firm.

I then receieved an offer much later in the process from another firm where my spouse's parents live in Seattle. I wanted a second firm at the time because of $$$, and wanted them because I thought that they, of all firms would be a great place to work if my first firm fell through. So, they called me out, created an extra spot in their class, and offered me same-day.

Fast forward to today:

All of my buddies keep telling me I am crazy for splitting because I might lose the first firm. I also tell my first firm about the offer, and they sound way disappointed in me. I don't want to lose the first firm for the second. Also, money isn't really an issue. I don't want to screw the second firm, but I don't want to be no-offered by the first for not demonstrating ultimate interest in them.

Thoughts?

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Re: Thinking of ditching one of my summer firms

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:29 pm

Why did you want the second firm because of money? Why didn't you just ask to work more weeks at your "dream" firm...Everything you described sounds like the first firm is all that you wanted. There are plenty of people looking for jobs in Seattle and to be honest, if they created an extra space for you in the class it doesn't sound like you're really screwing them...in fact, they won't have to pay more than they originally anticipated for their summers which they lose money on anyways.

The first firm may not no-offer you because you split, but I'm super risk averse and wouldn't risk it if the firm really was my dream firm. Plus...who wants to be that close to the in-laws??!!?!?!?!?!? Take the first one

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20130312
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Re: Thinking of ditching one of my summer firms

Postby 20130312 » Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:36 pm

ITT:

Image

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fatduck
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Re: Thinking of ditching one of my summer firms

Postby fatduck » Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I wanted a second firm at the time because of $$$

Anonymous User wrote:Also, money isn't really an issue.

seatown12
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Re: Thinking of ditching one of my summer firms

Postby seatown12 » Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:19 pm

Why is the SF firm having such a problem with this? You are not taking time away from them; you are completing an SA with them, and then in your vacation time you're working for another firm. They sound insecure. Tell them that if they agree right now to hire you for a permanent position after graduation you'll drop the other firm.

Or, if you're super worried about fucking up with the SF firm, why did you do this shit without asking in the first place?

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20130312
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Re: Thinking of ditching one of my summer firms

Postby 20130312 » Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:22 pm

seatown12 wrote:Or, if you're super worried about fucking up with the SF firm, why did you do this shit without asking in the first place?


This.

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Re: Thinking of ditching one of my summer firms

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:39 am

seatown12 wrote:Why is the SF firm having such a problem with this? You are not taking time away from them; you are completing an SA with them, and then in your vacation time you're working for another firm. They sound insecure. Tell them that if they agree right now to hire you for a permanent position after graduation you'll drop the other firm.

Or, if you're super worried about fucking up with the SF firm, why did you do this shit without asking in the first place?


They don't have a policy against splits. They just really want me to work there. I bring something to the table that they really want in a new practice group they are developing (which takes about 5 years of real world work experience to get). I think they are awesome, and they rarely no offer people. Its just that they would need someone with my ancillary professional skills now, and if they don't bring me in, I believe that they would need another of me, which they would have to wait until next OCI to get.

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Re: Thinking of ditching one of my summer firms

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:42 am

fatduck wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I wanted a second firm at the time because of $$$

Anonymous User wrote:Also, money isn't really an issue.


Welcome to married life. All of my married buds have 2 firms for the summer. However, most of them are in split-happy markets like Texas. I saw how bad my wife wanted me to take on the $$$, so I added the other firm. For me, 30k is great. But, loans mean a lot more when you are married and older, so the extra 20k also means a ton.

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Re: Thinking of ditching one of my summer firms

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:48 am

Anonymous User wrote:Why did you want the second firm because of money? Why didn't you just ask to work more weeks at your "dream" firm...Everything you described sounds like the first firm is all that you wanted. There are plenty of people looking for jobs in Seattle and to be honest, if they created an extra space for you in the class it doesn't sound like you're really screwing them...in fact, they won't have to pay more than they originally anticipated for their summers which they lose money on anyways.

The first firm may not no-offer you because you split, but I'm super risk averse and wouldn't risk it if the firm really was my dream firm. Plus...who wants to be that close to the in-laws??!!?!?!?!?!? Take the first one


Good point. I will save them money. I am usually very not risk-averse, but after hearing basically everyone I know who is not splitting in Texas saying: "Are you crazy man? Great firms in non-Texas markets hate splitting and will chop you up first chance they get if they need to cut a spot. This firm will be looking at you first to cut for going behind their back and taking a second firm."

Also, my first firm is being pretty tricky and saying: "Yeah, you can split, but we may just offer you right after the summer program ends, and need an answer pretty quick." So, I may have to decide on the first firm while at the second firm, which seems pretty dishonest.

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Re: Thinking of ditching one of my summer firms

Postby bk1 » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:58 am

If you're making 50k, doesn't that mean you're spending at least 8 weeks with each place? It seems like you're spending enough time that if they like you they like you. Looking at it one way, I think you could argue that the damage is already done and that going to your SF firm and saying "hey I changed my mind and want to do the full 10 weeks" would make you look worse.

I think the focus should be on what will give you the best shot at having at least 1 offer. While some would say that your word is your bond and that you shouldn't back out after you have accepted an offer to work somewhere (and I would tend to agree with them), I think that the risk here is large enough (student loans and one shot at biglaw) that you should maximize your chances at an offer. At this point I think that means following through with what you've got since changing now, months later, would look worse (at least in my mind) than the fact that your are splitting. I think that backing out of the Seattle firm isn't really that hurtful for them (especially since you are already 1 person over the class size they intended), so it's not like they're getting screwed.

I think, especially if the SF firm is implicating that they want to make you an offer before even seeing you work, that taking back the split might be worse. I could be wrong, but to me it just looks worse to be wishy washy.

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Re: Thinking of ditching one of my summer firms

Postby sunynp » Sat Feb 18, 2012 7:10 am

I agree with the above poster. You've already caused issues for the first firm. You've made them want to look at you very closely while you are there. If you go back again and tell them you changed your mind again and won't split- you look like even more of a total flake.

You would also not impress them if you drop the second firm now, having accepted an offer with the second firm. That makes it look like you don't take your commitments seriously.

I think if you do great work this summer you will get an offer.

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Re: Thinking of ditching one of my summer firms

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:28 am

Anonymous User wrote:All of my buddies keep telling me I am crazy for splitting because I might lose the first firm.


Current biglaw drone here.

You get +1 points for being selfish. Never overestimate your own importance, the first firm might love you now but who knows what could happen over the next four years? By the time you're a second year they might be building a case to fire you because you pissed off some random person in the firm without even knowing it and/or aren't billing they way they thought you would.

You get -1 points for listening to overly paranoid law school classmates with no work experience in biglaw. Having gone through being recruited heavily due to a speciality not many law school students possess, and also from witnessing a few other people go through a similar experience, a lot of what the first firm told you during recruiting is relatively insincere sweet-talk to get you into their firm. The summer will be a little different, especially if you don't split, but overall they will still be recruiting you. Once you accept things change because all of a sudden you're a source of revenue and profits for the partners who recruited you and that is a very very different position than being recruited.

Think about it logically, why did they recruit you heavily? It's because they think they can bill the shit out of you. When they look at you they don't see a future partner, a lot can happen in the next 9 years, and they don't see a co-worker, they only see dollar signs. Unless you are some F50 CEO's child and can bring in clients from the beginning, from your first day you will be thrown right into the grinder with everyone else, constantly feeling like you're behind your classmates and losing the partners' good graces that recruited you (and losing their protection from being fired). Splitting was a good idea, if they really want you they will try super hard to win you over all summer. If they get pissed now it's only because you've given yourself an option and they are agitated they have to actually put in a summer of effort to get you to accept their offer. If they get super pissed and don't give you an offer then trust me, you're better off not going there since the recruiting spiel they gave you was total bullshit. Don't believe me if you don't want to, but once you've started at a firm they have you in a very awkward spot the first two to three years where if you quit it looks terrible and if you get fired you're basically done and don't think for a second partners aren't 100% aware of that. It's a bleak picture, but not if you go in understanding the way things work.




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