Is my 3L wife going to get a legal job at all?

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Is my 3L wife going to get a legal job at all?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:32 pm

What is my wife's job outlook, and does anyone have any advice to pass along to her? Should she reasonably expect a legal job at all? She isn't accustomed to using forums such as this one despite my frequent recommendation to do so, so she isn't very informed on the job market other than what she hears at school. I know she should be making posts like this one herself, but at this point I want to do anything I can to help.

She is more or less looking for anything she can get. She is sending her resume to firms all over the country (or applying on their websites) as well as applying to every job that is posted by her school's career services (not many). She has had a few (5?) interviews, and was given zero offers so far. She was interviewed by most of the firms that have done on-campus interviews. She also made the final round of interviews at a big law firm in Atlanta, although we know that was a long-shot (she's also not gotten interviews with shitlaw firms who were doing OCIs). Her professor told her she should aim for the bottom 25 firms on the Vault 100, but based on my understanding of the outlook I feel like that is an extremely overly optimistic suggestion, especially this late in the season. She is applying for internships in-case she doesn't find a full-time job.

Her stats:
School rank: 30-40 range
Class rank: Top 33%
Journal: She was on a journal, but it wasn't the law review.
Internships: Decent sized firm in Europe, SEC.
Languages: Fluent in Spanish and German

She is not very well-spoken, and I would rate her interview ability as just okay based on mock interviews we do. She's aware of this weakness, and working very hard at improving it.

She says that she only knows of a few classmates that have jobs lined up, and they are the very top students.

Can she realistically expect to get a legal job at all, and if so, how should she focus her job search?

MrAnon
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Re: Is my 3L wife going to get a legal job at all?

Postby MrAnon » Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:44 pm

She should be able to find something with those stats that at least pays 50k. Just keep stuffing envelopes with the resume. Do it for every firm in a 70 mile radius of where you live. don't worry about speaking ability...that's fine for that range of school.

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Re: Is my 3L wife going to get a legal job at all?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:44 pm

it depends on which T30-40 you're talking about.
most of Cum laude from Fordham seem to laching on even in a bad economy.

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Re: Is my 3L wife going to get a legal job at all?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:48 am

Thanks guys. I'd rather not say what school specifically.

Any other advice?

Ronburgandy2468
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Re: Is my 3L wife going to get a legal job at all?

Postby Ronburgandy2468 » Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:03 am

Anonymous User wrote:it depends on which T30-40 you're talking about.
most of Cum laude from Fordham seem to laching on even in a bad economy.



I'd wager UGA.
Your seemed to be well qualified to practice law.
I don't see how top third at Wake would result in such.

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kalvano
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Re: Is my 3L wife going to get a legal job at all?

Postby kalvano » Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:12 am

I sent out a metric butt-ton of apps for my SA position; it's just a down market. Keep sending stuff out and something will pop.

If you need help finding firms, I've found http://www.resumelaunchpad.com to be invaluable in locating firms.

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Re: Is my 3L wife going to get a legal job at all?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:19 am

I go to a T30-40 as well and everything I've heard is that most job offerings available (i.e., at small/midsize firms) wait until bar results are out to hire.

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Re: Is my 3L wife going to get a legal job at all?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:09 am

Thanks guys, I appreciate all the replies.

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Re: Is my 3L wife going to get a legal job at all?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:07 pm

I think places will likely wait for bar results, as mentioned above, for these circumstances.

I'd say the best thing to do is to continue sending out applications, be as flexible as possible about geography and "network" (whatever that means, but I always think of it is just making attorneys like you as a person so that if they know about anything, people are more willing to help out when they like you).

You can also look for solo practitioners/small "firms" that want an intern or nominally paid clerk. I've seen instances where that turned into them taking-on the student once they graduate and take the bar. It's not easy, it's not necessarily the most financially stable, but it may be a good way to show professional competence and gain skills.

Also, she has to do something about interview and self-presentation skills.

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Re: Is my 3L wife going to get a legal job at all?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:08 pm

She can also apply for state court clerkships, although you'll have to see what is competitive for that. That'd be a paying job, would give her experience and be a decent line on her resume.

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Re: Is my 3L wife going to get a legal job at all?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:42 pm

the thing about internship/law clerks are credited!
even though the firm says it does not expect to hire its interns, many of those law clerks end up getting hired. it's a matter of time....

make sure that it's not one of those sleazy firms that advertise on craigslist, though.

c3pO4
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Re: Is my 3L wife going to get a legal job at all?

Postby c3pO4 » Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:48 pm

I think it's all about targeting. V75-100 is simply not going to happen. She needs to target firms ranging from 3 lawyers to 50 anywhere around where you live or are willing to move. She'll find something that pays 40-70k.

goodolgil
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Re: Is my 3L wife going to get a legal job at all?

Postby goodolgil » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:03 pm

c3pO4 wrote:I think it's all about targeting. V75-100 is simply not going to happen. She needs to target firms ranging from 3 lawyers to 50 anywhere around where you live or are willing to move. She'll find something that pays 40-70k.


Sort of confirms that professors are pretty clueless about how firms work.

Englander742
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Re: Is my 3L wife going to get a legal job at all?

Postby Englander742 » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:09 pm

Wouldn't the Spanish fluency particularly be a huge boost to emphasize?

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leobowski
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Re: Is my 3L wife going to get a legal job at all?

Postby leobowski » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:37 pm

Englander742 wrote:Wouldn't the Spanish fluency particularly be a huge boost to emphasize?



Only really in a few fields: criminal defense, immigration, and legal aid.

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IAFG
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Re: Is my 3L wife going to get a legal job at all?

Postby IAFG » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:40 pm

kalvano wrote:I sent out a metric butt-ton of apps for my SA position; it's just a down market. Keep sending stuff out and something will pop.

If you need help finding firms, I've found http://www.resumelaunchpad.com to be invaluable in locating firms.

I'd never heard of this. You should probably start a thread about its benefits and limitations.

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kalvano
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Re: Is my 3L wife going to get a legal job at all?

Postby kalvano » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:45 pm

IAFG wrote:
kalvano wrote:I sent out a metric butt-ton of apps for my SA position; it's just a down market. Keep sending stuff out and something will pop.

If you need help finding firms, I've found http://www.resumelaunchpad.com to be invaluable in locating firms.

I'd never heard of this. You should probably start a thread about its benefits and limitations.


About mass mailings or the website? Can't tell if trolling...

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IAFG
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Re: Is my 3L wife going to get a legal job at all?

Postby IAFG » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:48 pm

kalvano wrote:
IAFG wrote:
kalvano wrote:I sent out a metric butt-ton of apps for my SA position; it's just a down market. Keep sending stuff out and something will pop.

If you need help finding firms, I've found http://www.resumelaunchpad.com to be invaluable in locating firms.

I'd never heard of this. You should probably start a thread about its benefits and limitations.


About mass mailings or the website? Can't tell if trolling...

The website. A while back I started a thread about the deficit in information about firms that aren't NALP but do take summers (and Martindale ain't the answer). If that website is a good resource you should explain how.

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kalvano
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Re: Is my 3L wife going to get a legal job at all?

Postby kalvano » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:49 pm

OK. I will.

It's not really a site that tells you firms that take summers. It just helps you find firms near you and gives contact info for them.

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Re: Is my 3L wife going to get a legal job at all?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:46 pm

Thanks all for your info. She is going to try out http://www.resumelaunchpad.com and is going to keep on plugging away. Based on things I have read I was actually more pessimistic than you guys were, so that's definitely good to hear. As for the clerkships, she has been applying to those as well.
goodolgil wrote:
Sort of confirms that professors are pretty clueless about how firms work.


I wonder if she just hasn't been in-touch with the job market since before the recession. We're those big law jobs much easier to get back then?

kalvano - I'd like to read more about your experience with that site too. Seems cool. She has been using lists of firms on LexisNexis to find who to mass mail, but that's more time consuming since she has to find their sites manually and figure out all of their application processes. Does that site make it easier by enough to make it worth the money, and how complete are the databases?

sillyboots
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Re: Is my 3L wife going to get a legal job at all?

Postby sillyboots » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:06 pm

I don't have much to contribute to this thread other than to tell you to definitely consider concentrating a good number of mailings to places in California. With fluency in Spanish and decent grades/school rank, I have a feeling she should have a good shot of getting a decent PI job (though admittedly, immigration and legal aid related work would be the most probable). Really, anywhere in California should have use for a Spanish speaker, though I think San Diego, Los Angeles and Sacramento would probably yield the most results city wise.

Both of you sound like good people and it sounds like she's someone who's willing to put in solid effort. Once she gets a job I'm sure they won't want to let her go. Best of luck.

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kalvano
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Re: Is my 3L wife going to get a legal job at all?

Postby kalvano » Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:10 am

Anonymous User wrote:kalvano - I'd like to read more about your experience with that site too. Seems cool. She has been using lists of firms on LexisNexis to find who to mass mail, but that's more time consuming since she has to find their sites manually and figure out all of their application processes. Does that site make it easier by enough to make it worth the money, and how complete are the databases?



viewtopic.php?f=23&t=178520&p=5234057#p5234057

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Lwoods
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Re: Is my 3L wife going to get a legal job at all?

Postby Lwoods » Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:50 am

leobowski wrote:
Englander742 wrote:Wouldn't the Spanish fluency particularly be a huge boost to emphasize?



Only really in a few fields: criminal defense, immigration, and legal aid.


I think it can be helpful beyond that. A handful of BigLaw (V50) attorneys I've spoken with have said foreign language skills are almost required at many firms these days, with a few specifically mentioning a lot of deal activity in South America.

She should definitely highlight her foreign language abilities and her European internship in her cover letters to firms with foreign clients (particularly foreign clients in Spanish or German speaking countries). For a good (but not top) student at a good (but not top) school, her foreign-language skills should be a huge selling point.

Best of luck to you two!

LoyalRebel
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Re: Is my 3L wife going to get a legal job at all?

Postby LoyalRebel » Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:59 am

If she can't really can't find anything with a firm, I would recommend sending out applications to judges. Many of these positions are unpaid, but it's supposed to be good experience and a great way to make contacts.

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Re: Is my 3L wife going to get a legal job at all?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:58 pm

supppose you get to work for a judge, for a nonpaid position, can you legitimately put 'law clerk' on the resume?




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