Northwestern to California

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Anonymous User
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Northwestern to California

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 15, 2012 1:30 pm

Current Northwestern 1L--first semester GPA of 3.5...

No ties to California whatsoever beyond trips and vacations. 5 years of Public Service Work experience on the East Coast. (nothing IP or technical)

I want big law in California. Of course San Diego as impossible first choice...otherwise Palo Alto, SanFran, down to LA...

Im wondering if anyone has past experience making such a move? I know NU has the law consortium where one can fly to SanFran and LA to interview with firms at a hotel during 2L OCI....any ideas how many interviews someone with my GPA would get and what are chances of securing Big Law in California in my circumstances?

Thanks!

09042014
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Re: Northwestern to California

Postby 09042014 » Wed Feb 15, 2012 1:34 pm

Don't try this unless you are willing to lie about a fake fiance in CA.

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Re: Northwestern to California

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 15, 2012 1:42 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Don't try this unless you are willing to lie about a fake fiance in CA.


So are you saying that there it is pointless to try for California unless you can make up a grant lie?

What about bidding a safer city like NY/Chicago and mass mailing CA firms and attending both off-camput consortium events?

Does one lose bids in Chicago for attending an off-camput event in a different city?

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bk1
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Re: Northwestern to California

Postby bk1 » Wed Feb 15, 2012 1:48 pm

Are you at least doing your 1L summer in CA? Even then I don't think your chances are great but at least that's better than nothing.

I agree that your best bet would be to try for CA outside of OCI and focus on markets where you have a good shot during OCI. I would bet you won't get CA but at least you're not risking your OCI interviews to try it. Not to mention that the callback sheet on symplicity has some pretty blistering GPA numbers for CA firms/offices.

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Re: Northwestern to California

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:17 pm

Wow--didnt know prospects were that bad! So, I assume by your certainty that you were people that this happened to? I looked at GPA on NU simplicity and they actually weren't bad at all--in fact, several firms had lower medians for CA than NY or Chi....Why is it so difficult?

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IAFG
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Re: Northwestern to California

Postby IAFG » Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Wow--didnt know prospects were that bad! So, I assume by your certainty that you were people that this happened to? I looked at GPA on NU simplicity and they actually weren't bad at all--in fact, several firms had lower medians for CA than NY or Chi....Why is it so difficult?

It isn't anything to do with your grades. Your ties make this move VERY unlikely. But feel free to try with your low bids and a massmail campaign, along with OCRP and any diversity fairs you qualify for.

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Re: Northwestern to California

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:57 pm

Anyone have insights as to how being from the Pacific Northwest will play with California firms?

Went to undergrad and worked on the East Coast before coming to Northwestern.

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bk1
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Re: Northwestern to California

Postby bk1 » Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:03 pm

IAFG wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Wow--didnt know prospects were that bad! So, I assume by your certainty that you were people that this happened to? I looked at GPA on NU simplicity and they actually weren't bad at all--in fact, several firms had lower medians for CA than NY or Chi....Why is it so difficult?

It isn't anything to do with your grades. Your ties make this move VERY unlikely. But feel free to try with your low bids and a massmail campaign, along with OCRP and any diversity fairs you qualify for.


I mean this is the primary thing but I do think grades are another factor due to the decimation of the CA market and the limited spots they have.

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IAFG
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Re: Northwestern to California

Postby IAFG » Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:04 pm

bk1 wrote:
IAFG wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Wow--didnt know prospects were that bad! So, I assume by your certainty that you were people that this happened to? I looked at GPA on NU simplicity and they actually weren't bad at all--in fact, several firms had lower medians for CA than NY or Chi....Why is it so difficult?

It isn't anything to do with your grades. Your ties make this move VERY unlikely. But feel free to try with your low bids and a massmail campaign, along with OCRP and any diversity fairs you qualify for.


I mean this is the primary thing but I do think grades are another factor due to the decimation of the CA market and the limited spots they have.

3.5 is fine for CA. No ties are not.

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Re: Northwestern to California

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Current Northwestern 1L--first semester GPA of 3.5...

No ties to California whatsoever beyond trips and vacations. 5 years of Public Service Work experience on the East Coast. (nothing IP or technical)

I want big law in California. Of course San Diego as impossible first choice...otherwise Palo Alto, SanFran, down to LA...

Im wondering if anyone has past experience making such a move? I know NU has the law consortium where one can fly to SanFran and LA to interview with firms at a hotel during 2L OCI....any ideas how many interviews someone with my GPA would get and what are chances of securing Big Law in California in my circumstances?

Thanks!


I'm speaking as a 1L who is in a similar situation, albeit from a higher (East Coast) T14. I landed multiple CA interviews and an offer (dropped the rest) with no ties at all. Because I knew this was what I wanted to do I talked to a bunch of 2Ls and 3Ls who similarly wanted to go to CA, most with little or no ties.

Granted my sample size is small but at least it shows some people can pull it off. Mixing my experience with the words of others: You have your order backwards. LA in general seems to be much more receptive to transplants, especially those without a tech background. SD is incredibly tiny, and non-patent SF/SV work is going to be dominated by Stanford and Berkeley grads. A top 5% Berk degree might be worth as much or more than a top 5% Harvard or Columbia degree in the Bay area simply due to the concentration of B grads and the home field advantage. That's not to say that it's impossible to get into the Bay area from outside of it, but that the competition is much harder.

On the other hand LA has a number of advantages for people trying to break in. It doesn't have a home T14. S and B grads might be more prevalent but they don't dominate the area like they do up north. LA/OC is bigger than the Bay area and is less tech-oriented. Also disavow New York in your interviews. Whenever someone asks "why do you want to work in X," they really mean "why don't you want to work in New York." I don't know how good a 3.5 is at Northwestern but I imagine it's pretty significantly above median. If you can get your grades into the MTO/Irell/etc. levels as opposed to the DLA Piper levels then you'll also see the doors start opening up.

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bk1
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Re: Northwestern to California

Postby bk1 » Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:17 pm

IAFG wrote:3.5 is fine for CA. No ties are not.


I had assumed it was worse than that, but it's nice to hear it's not as bad as I expected.

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Re: Northwestern to California

Postby 09042014 » Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Don't try this unless you are willing to lie about a fake fiance in CA.


So are you saying that there it is pointless to try for California unless you can make up a grant lie?

What about bidding a safer city like NY/Chicago and mass mailing CA firms and attending both off-camput consortium events?

Does one lose bids in Chicago for attending an off-camput event in a different city?


California firms want ties to their cities. Bidding NY/Chi and massmailing and attending the consortiums is a good strategy.

You do not lose bids for attending the off campus events.

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Geetar Man
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Re: Northwestern to California

Postby Geetar Man » Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:24 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Don't try this unless you are willing to lie about a fake fiance in CA.


So are you saying that there it is pointless to try for California unless you can make up a grant lie?

What about bidding a safer city like NY/Chicago and mass mailing CA firms and attending both off-camput consortium events?

Does one lose bids in Chicago for attending an off-camput event in a different city?


California firms want ties to their cities. Bidding NY/Chi and massmailing and attending the consortiums is a good strategy.

You do not lose bids for attending the off campus events.


Okay, not trying to hijack but I have a semi-relevant question. What is the importance behind having ties to a certain city/state? Aside from the obvious risk of being used as a means to an end, are there any other reasons schools/employers like to choose people who have good ties within their state/city? Lastly, will ties to a certain place help mitigate lower gpa, in most instances?
Last edited by Geetar Man on Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

09042014
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Re: Northwestern to California

Postby 09042014 » Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Current Northwestern 1L--first semester GPA of 3.5...

No ties to California whatsoever beyond trips and vacations. 5 years of Public Service Work experience on the East Coast. (nothing IP or technical)

I want big law in California. Of course San Diego as impossible first choice...otherwise Palo Alto, SanFran, down to LA...

Im wondering if anyone has past experience making such a move? I know NU has the law consortium where one can fly to SanFran and LA to interview with firms at a hotel during 2L OCI....any ideas how many interviews someone with my GPA would get and what are chances of securing Big Law in California in my circumstances?

Thanks!


I'm speaking as a 1L who is in a similar situation, albeit from a higher (East Coast) T14. I landed multiple CA interviews and an offer (dropped the rest) with no ties at all. Because I knew this was what I wanted to do I talked to a bunch of 2Ls and 3Ls who similarly wanted to go to CA, most with little or no ties.


A 1L with multiple interviews at big law firms is very out of the ordinary. You must have something going for you: insane grades, diversity, etc, etc.

I picked up two interviews with firms in CA at OCI. They grilled me about ties.

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IAFG
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Re: Northwestern to California

Postby IAFG » Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
I'm speaking as a 1L who is in a similar situation, albeit from a higher (East Coast) T14. I landed multiple CA interviews and an offer

based on your outcome it sounds like you and OP are not similarly situated. 3.5 from NU is not going to get you multiple CA biglaw interviews as a 1L.

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Re: Northwestern to California

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:43 pm

How is Northwestern doing overall in terms of job placement?

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Re: Northwestern to California

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:17 pm

Original OP:

My list was only for preference--thinking LA is by far my best chance and where I'll put in the most work--though I'll try with all my might at the off-campus OCI in both SanFran and LA--cant hurt much if they don't cost any bid spots....

3.5 at NU I believe i about top 1/3....median about a 3.2

Does IL summer employment really matter if in CA or IL? Don't firms realize we can't pay for 2 rents as IL and relocate at a cost of 10k plus for the summer just to say we went to ideal state for 10 weeks to make no money in PI---Im sure it helps but how much really?

Fiance also has lots of opportunities in LA....maybe that could help

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Re: Northwestern to California

Postby IAFG » Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Original OP:

My list was only for preference--thinking LA is by far my best chance and where I'll put in the most work--though I'll try with all my might at the off-campus OCI in both SanFran and LA--cant hurt much if they don't cost any bid spots....

3.5 at NU I believe i about top 1/3....median about a 3.2

Does IL summer employment really matter if in CA or IL? Don't firms realize we can't pay for 2 rents as IL and relocate at a cost of 10k plus for the summer just to say we went to ideal state for 10 weeks to make no money in PI---Im sure it helps but how much really?

Fiance also has lots of opportunities in LA....maybe that could help

If you REALLY wanted to be in CA you could sublet your apartment, and firms know that too.

I think it helps a lot, when trying to create ties, to go live there and, y'know, create ties. You can also start networking if you're physically there. If you try, you could get coffee with a different lawyer at your target firm every week during 1L summer, which gives you something plausible to say in interviews.

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Re: Northwestern to California

Postby c3pO4 » Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Original OP:

My list was only for preference--thinking LA is by far my best chance and where I'll put in the most work--though I'll try with all my might at the off-campus OCI in both SanFran and LA--cant hurt much if they don't cost any bid spots....

3.5 at NU I believe i about top 1/3....median about a 3.2

Does IL summer employment really matter if in CA or IL? Don't firms realize we can't pay for 2 rents as IL and relocate at a cost of 10k plus for the summer just to say we went to ideal state for 10 weeks to make no money in PI---Im sure it helps but how much really?

Fiance also has lots of opportunities in LA....maybe that could help


You probably have no chance. But if you don't do 1L in California, you DEFINITELY have no chance.

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Re: Northwestern to California

Postby Snape » Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:56 pm

[/quote]

You probably have no chance. But if you don't do 1L in California, you DEFINITELY have no chance.[/quote]

With such amazing reasoning skills and an ability to come up with a definitive answer without very much information, experience, or logic Im sure you are doing VERY well in law school!

09042014
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Re: Northwestern to California

Postby 09042014 » Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:29 pm

Snape wrote:
With such amazing reasoning skills and an ability to come up with a definitive answer without very much information, experience, or logic Im sure you are doing VERY well in law school!


Those who can't get a 170 on the LSAT can't bitch about others lack of reasoning. HTH

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bk1
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Re: Northwestern to California

Postby bk1 » Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:30 pm

IAFG wrote:If you REALLY wanted to be in CA you could sublet your apartment, and firms know that too.

I think it helps a lot, when trying to create ties, to go live there and, y'know, create ties. You can also start networking if you're physically there. If you try, you could get coffee with a different lawyer at your target firm every week during 1L summer, which gives you something plausible to say in interviews.


Agreed. If you really want CA, buck up and work there during your 1L summer. It's not ideal in terms of cost but your chances will be much better than if you didn't (though there's no guarantee that they'll be great since you'll only have that single blip on your resume). If your fiance already had a job there it would definitely help, but it doesn't seem plausible that she would get a job and move there within the next 6 months.

Another important thing is that the Bay Area and SoCal are distinct. I don't know much about LA/SD/OC, but I do know that SF firms would probably still look at you skeptically if you summered in SoCal. Anecdotally, I've also been told by a 2L friend of mine that the Bay Area cares about 1L summer there even for people who grew up and went to college there.

09042014
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Re: Northwestern to California

Postby 09042014 » Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:34 pm

So we are back to the lying option.

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Re: Northwestern to California

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:00 pm

Quinn Emanuel did not seem to care about ties, but it could have been because they were recruiting a relatively large class. If you are California dreaming it would probably be worth it to put a few firms that are known to be less ties-selective but do not put all your eggs in the California basket.

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Re: Northwestern to California

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Quinn Emanuel did not seem to care about ties, but it could have been because they were recruiting a relatively large class. If you are California dreaming it would probably be worth it to put a few firms that are known to be less ties-selective but do not put all your eggs in the California basket.


QE LA grilled my ass about ties. Their call back sheet had a large section for it. They also wanted to know where I was going on callbacks.

Though, "my fiances parents live here" was good enough.




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