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Anonymous User
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Re: Help. Illegal Immigrant (Top 6) Shooting for Biglaw.

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:00 am

yuzu wrote:Generally - law seems like a poor career choice for someone in that position simply because it's so strongly country-specific.

Could she get a job overseas? Legally speaking, sure. But typically you begin firm jobs as a summer associate after the second year of law school, and she wouldn't be able to return for the third year of law school. She might well not be able to pass a US state bar, and US law graduates who work overseas typically practice US law. She would not be able to visit the US to represent clients in court. So the result would be pretty much unworkable IMO unless she became qualified to practice foreign law - and in that case, why not just attend a foreign law school?

The classic "magic fix" for illegal immigrants is to marry a US citizen. If she does this it would change the situation considerably, but resolving the situation could take several years, during which she may have to leave the US. So law school would be delayed.

If the immigration authorities doesn't know she's in the US (and thus she might be readmitted) I suppose that in theory she could leave and come back on F-1 status. I think this would be very risky (as it might involve misrepresentation on a visa application) and should be discussed with an immigration lawyer if contemplated.

If she is interested in law, I would suggest a law degree in Canada or the UK, assuming she does not have legal problems in those jurisdictions.

I imagine she would be eligible for Canadian student loans in the US or elsewhere despite her illegal status, but I am not sure of this.

Why not just go back to Canada and get the paperwork done right

Because she has been illegally in the US more than a year, she is likely subject to a 10 year bar on entering the US, and even after that she might be denied entry.

No one is going to be excited about committing a felony by hiring her.

Many illegal immigrants who work in the US produce false work authorization documents. In that case the employer is not likely committing a felony, assuming the documents are convincing. However, I must say that is a rather inauspicious way for a law student to begin a legal career.

If your friend wants to be a lawyer, I suggest she stop being a felon

What crime are you accusing her of? Illegal presence in the US (e.g. by overstaying a lawful entry) is not a crime at all, much less a felony - although there are civil consequences.
http://immigration.procon.org/view.answers.php?questionID=781


Thank you for the response.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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descartesb4thehorse
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Re: Help. Illegal Immigrant (Top 6) Shooting for Biglaw.

Postby descartesb4thehorse » Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:00 am

Anonymous User wrote:
descartesb4thehorse wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
2LLLL wrote:I think the bigger concern is C&F. They definitely ask for your citizenship status, SSN, and selective service info (though that won't be a red flag for your friend since she's a woman). There's a chance that a willful and continuing violation of the law could prevent you from ever being accepted to the bar.

I would not advise her to take on the risk of going to law school (which even from a T14, even from a T6, even from HYS, is not a sure bet) with this much of a risk that she will be unable to ever sit for a bar exam anywhere. Also, I don't think a US JD, even from a top school, will have tremendous utility in Canada- don't they have a completely different system?


Thank you for the response.

Do you think the a HYS law degree would be worth if she was looking to do academia/public related work in Canada/Europe/Asia though?
Would the degree be useless even in Canada if she was somehow able to take the bar in Canada?

It's counterproductive to get a US law degree if you never plan to (and probably cannot) ever work in the US.


Wouldn't an HYS degree be worthwhile even if outside of the US if she's looking at academia though?

You don't just get a JD and then become a law professor. In almost all cases, you need work experience and to be published plenty of times before it becomes an option. Even then, there's less than a 1% chance of that working out. So, do I think that's a gamble worth >$150k, 3 years, and the constant possibility that she'll be found out and deported? No.

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yuzu
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Re: Help. Illegal Immigrant (Top 6) Shooting for Biglaw.

Postby yuzu » Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:03 am

Anonymous User wrote:Seriously it only works for the Mexicans, it won't work for anyone else.

The Mexicans can have marches and have their photos and names in magazines with their opinions on it and be ok, Canadian she'd be screwed. Just would. No love for Whittie.


You're forgetting about the undocumented Irish lobby! (I'm serious... there's undocumented Irish legislation being discussed right now in Congress.)
--LinkRemoved--

Anonymous User
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Re: Help. Illegal Immigrant (Top 6) Shooting for Biglaw.

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:04 am

yuzu wrote:
No one is going to be excited about committing a felony by hiring her.

Many illegal immigrants who work in the US produce false work authorization documents. In that case the employer is not likely committing a felony, assuming the documents are convincing. However, I must say that is a rather inauspicious way for a law student to begin a legal career.


One thing to add, when the firm runs a background check on her, they will probably find out that she is an illegal immigrant.

And the state bar C&F app asks for her immigration status and social security number as well. If she lies, she risks being disbarred.

Anonymous User
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Re: Help. Illegal Immigrant (Top 6) Shooting for Biglaw.

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:04 am

Anonymous User wrote:If she is just looking at academia, just have her get a Dr of Education degree (or anything else I guess) IN CANADA!!!! Why is it so important "she" stay here (it's you, we know it's you)

Mexico is scary, people kill you.

Canada is mounties and visits from the Queen. What's so damn scary about going back to that?


yeah but she's already in the US and has a great shot at T14 and wants to teach law not just anything else.

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chiro
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Re: Help. Illegal Immigrant (Top 6) Shooting for Biglaw.

Postby chiro » Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:06 am

Most schools have tons of Canadians in them, most are legal.

I don't know how the illegals make it into the undergrads, but they are in bulk in most larger campuses.

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kalvano
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Re: Help. Illegal Immigrant (Top 6) Shooting for Biglaw.

Postby kalvano » Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:08 am

Canada is basically America's hat. She's essentially American...a dirty, stinking, Labatt-drinking, "aboot" saying American. She's probably a Leafs fan, or something equally vile.
Last edited by kalvano on Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
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Re: Help. Illegal Immigrant (Top 6) Shooting for Biglaw.

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:08 am

so it's ok to do something illegal because they have a great shot at it, and they want to do it.

It's clearly never going to sink in, do whatever since you are going to do it anyways. Laws clearly only apply to others and not you(I mean "her")

You "deserve" it. :?

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:If she is just looking at academia, just have her get a Dr of Education degree (or anything else I guess) IN CANADA!!!! Why is it so important "she" stay here (it's you, we know it's you)

Mexico is scary, people kill you.

Canada is mounties and visits from the Queen. What's so damn scary about going back to that?


yeah but she's already in the US and has a great shot at T14 and wants to teach law not just anything else.

Anonymous User
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Re: Help. Illegal Immigrant (Top 6) Shooting for Biglaw.

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:08 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:If she is just looking at academia, just have her get a Dr of Education degree (or anything else I guess) IN CANADA!!!! Why is it so important "she" stay here (it's you, we know it's you)

Mexico is scary, people kill you.

Canada is mounties and visits from the Queen. What's so damn scary about going back to that?


yeah but she's already in the US and has a great shot at T14 and wants to teach law not just anything else.


hmmm. Beggers can't be choosers. Or is this a first-world problem?

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chiro
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Re: Help. Illegal Immigrant (Top 6) Shooting for Biglaw.

Postby chiro » Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:10 am

Give it time, they will be someday.

Reminds me of the argument damn illegal mexicans always make out west "This is Mexico......"
Someone needs to buy them a map not made pre civil war.
That and the "we're all NORTH americans, why can't I live anywhere in NORTH america that I want"
That's always a fun one to hear rehashed a billion times over too.

kalvano wrote:Canada is basically America's hat. She's essentially American...a dirty, stinking, Labatt-drinking, "aboot" saying American.

2LLLL
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Re: Help. Illegal Immigrant (Top 6) Shooting for Biglaw.

Postby 2LLLL » Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:12 am

Wouldn't an HYS degree be worthwhile even if outside of the US if she's looking at academia though?


An HYS degree is a necessary (though not strictly necessary since grads of other top schools get academia) but not sufficient credential to enter academia. The increasingly typical path to academia is Top School -> Top Clerkship -> 1-3 years at Top Firm (maybe optional) -> Academia. Your friend could, by definition, only accomplish the first of these steps. To get a clerkship you'll go through a federal background check, as mandated in (I think) HSPD-12 for every federal employee. That check will discover that she is not a legal resident of the US. To work at a top firm, you will have to pass C&F. You will have to give at least 2-3 data points (i.e. citizenship status, SSN, selective service, etc...) indicating immigration status. Misrepresenting information on either the federal background check or C&F = you're fucked.


So, you take this risk, for what upside? To work at one of ~5 Canadian law schools? To work at a law school abroad, that for some reason wants to hire an HYS grad with no practical work experience (which she by definition cannot get) instead of someone who actually knows the law of that country?

Law school is a means to an end, not an end itself. In your friend's case, the end is per se foreclosed, so why waste time on the means?

Anonymous User
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Re: Help. Illegal Immigrant (Top 6) Shooting for Biglaw.

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:16 am

2LLLL wrote:
Wouldn't an HYS degree be worthwhile even if outside of the US if she's looking at academia though?


An HYS degree is a necessary (though not strictly necessary since grads of other top schools get academia) but not sufficient credential to enter academia. The increasingly typical path to academia is Top School -> Top Clerkship -> 1-3 years at Top Firm (maybe optional) -> Academia. Your friend could, by definition, only accomplish the first of these steps. To get a clerkship you'll go through a federal background check, as mandated in (I think) HSPD-12 for every federal employee. That check will discover that she is not a legal resident of the US. To work at a top firm, you will have to pass C&F. You will have to give at least 2-3 data points (i.e. citizenship status, SSN, selective service, etc...) indicating immigration status. Misrepresenting information on either the federal background check or C&F = you're fucked.


So, you take this risk, for what upside? To work at one of ~5 Canadian law schools? To work at a law school abroad, that for some reason wants to hire an HYS grad with no practical work experience (which she by definition cannot get) instead of someone who actually knows the law of that country?

Law school is a means to an end, not an end itself. In your friend's case, the end is per se foreclosed, so why waste time on the means?

Because she want to and is "entitled" to it.

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Ikki
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Re: Help. Illegal Immigrant (Top 6) Shooting for Biglaw.

Postby Ikki » Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:18 am

Look at all these brave posters with their macho-talk hiding behind the Anon feature. Mods are lagging.

071816
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Re: Help. Illegal Immigrant (Top 6) Shooting for Biglaw.

Postby 071816 » Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:36 am

Anonymous User wrote:It is not illegal to be illegal.......... :|

I always love that argument.

Seriously it only works for the Mexicans, it won't work for anyone else.

The Mexicans can have marches and have their photos and names in magazines with their opinions on it and be ok, Canadian she'd be screwed. Just would. No love for Whittie.


You're such a bitch for posting this kind of bullshit anonymously.

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chiro
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Re: Help. Illegal Immigrant (Top 6) Shooting for Biglaw.

Postby chiro » Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:37 am

chimp wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:It is not illegal to be illegal.......... :|

I always love that argument.

Seriously it only works for the Mexicans, it won't work for anyone else.

The Mexicans can have marches and have their photos and names in magazines with their opinions on it and be ok, Canadian she'd be screwed. Just would. No love for Whittie.


You're such a bitch for posting this kind of bullshit anonymously.


No more of a bitch than the one who started the thread the same way. You're a bitch for not realizing that on your own. There we're both superstars now.

071816
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Re: Help. Illegal Immigrant (Top 6) Shooting for Biglaw.

Postby 071816 » Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:38 am

Anonymous User wrote:
chimp wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:It is not illegal to be illegal.......... :|

I always love that argument.

Seriously it only works for the Mexicans, it won't work for anyone else.

The Mexicans can have marches and have their photos and names in magazines with their opinions on it and be ok, Canadian she'd be screwed. Just would. No love for Whittie.


You're such a bitch for posting this kind of bullshit anonymously.


No more of a bitch than the one who started the thread the same way. You're a bitch for not realizing that on your own. There we're both superstars now.


So not only are you a racist pussy, but you're also incredibly stupid. Kudos.

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ben4847
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Re: .

Postby ben4847 » Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:39 am

You can't start a troll thread, and then edit out the OP and title. Once you start trolling, you're in it until we decide we're done with you.

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kalvano
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Re: .

Postby kalvano » Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:41 am

I'm glad to see the pressing issues of our northern brethren being brought to the forefront of the TLS consciousness.

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chiro
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Re: .

Postby chiro » Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:42 am

ben4847 wrote:You can't start a troll thread, and then edit out the OP and title. Once you start trolling, you're in it until we decide we're done with you.


Lots of people do that I have noticed. That "suits" winner does it almost as much as she breathes.

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nygrrrl
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Re: Help. Illegal Immigrant (Top 6) Shooting for Biglaw.

Postby nygrrrl » Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:25 am

Ikki wrote:Look at all these brave posters with their macho-talk hiding behind the Anon feature. Mods are lagging.

Some of us have lives and sleep at 330am.
That said, we're awake now. Here's a reminder for all of you who seem to have missed the BIG YELLOW BANNER at the top of the page:

"Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, clerkship, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned."

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sunynp
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Re: Help. Illegal Immigrant (Top 6) Shooting for Biglaw.

Postby sunynp » Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:57 am

Anonymous User wrote:
blowhard wrote:If she's not legal to work, I don't see any firm employing her. Most firms made me fill something out saying I was legal to work during callbacks...even ones that had seen my proof of service in the military.

She definitely cannot intern for a judge as they do a background check.

No one is going to be excited about committing a felony by hiring her. --LinkRemoved-- I doubt a US based firm would even talk to her about working in Canada while she is illegal. Going by that summary, OCS would be committing a felony by even letting her participate in OCI.

I also highly doubt she can sit for the bar in any state.

If your friend wants to be a lawyer, I suggest she stop being a felon, return to Canada, and apply there.


You're obviously missing the point entirely.

No one would be stupid enough to argue that a law firm would KNOWINGLY hire an illegal immigrant, genius. I think we all know that's not happening. smh

It's easy to figure out that the question asked was: Is there was any way she can somehow become legal and work for a Biglaw firm (whether it's through some kind of visa, leaving the US and applying for a job there or simply working in another country).


No, there is almost no way for people to become legal if they entered the country illegally without inspection. Even marrying a US citizen will not save her. If she leaves the US she will be barred from returning for a number of years depending on how long she has been here. If she overstayed a student visa and marries a US citizen, then she can get a waiver. Also, there is a very little known parole process where an illegal citizen can marry a US serviceperson and become legal.

There is no difference in the law depending on what country you are from, people get deported to every country - Canada and European countries. Being from Canada doesn't give you a break over being from Mexico. I don't know why anyone would think that is the case.

My law firm took copies of my passport, drivers license and other stuff IIRC. A university would have to do the same. There is nowhere she can work as a lawyer without showing she is here legally.

PS. It isn't a crime to be in the US illegally. You have to leave the country but you don't go to jail. It isn't correct terminology to call a person a "felon." People might want to understand the law about immigration, if you know, they plan on being lawyers.

sophie316
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Re: .

Postby sophie316 » Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:48 pm

This may have been in the original post that is now gone but how would someone who is not a US citizen and is illegally in the country pay for law school? They're gonna need a US guarantor to get loans.

Master Tofu
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Re: .

Postby Master Tofu » Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:39 pm

chimp wrote:So not only are you a racist pussy, but you're also incredibly stupid. Kudos.


+1




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