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Anonymous User
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Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:35 am

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Last edited by Anonymous User on Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

03121202698008
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Re: Help. Illegal Immigrant (Top 6) Shooting for Biglaw.

Postby 03121202698008 » Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:37 am

If she's not legal to work, I don't see any firm employing her. Most firms made me fill something out saying I was legal to work during callbacks...even ones that had seen my proof of service in the military.

She definitely cannot intern for a judge as they do a background check.

No one is going to be excited about committing a felony by hiring her. --LinkRemoved-- I doubt a US based firm would even talk to her about working in Canada while she is illegal. Going by that summary, OCS would be committing a felony by even letting her participate in OCI.

I also highly doubt she can sit for the bar in any state.

If your friend wants to be a lawyer, I suggest she stop being a felon, return to Canada, and apply there.
Last edited by 03121202698008 on Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:47 am, edited 4 times in total.

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traehekat
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Re: Help. Illegal Immigrant (Top 6) Shooting for Biglaw.

Postby traehekat » Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:40 am

She should not even consider for a second dropping any kind of money on law school before confirming her ability to be employed.

Anonymous User
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Re: Help. Illegal Immigrant (Top 6) Shooting for Biglaw.

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:02 am

blowhard wrote:If she's not legal to work, I don't see any firm employing her. Most firms made me fill something out saying I was legal to work during callbacks...even ones that had seen my proof of service in the military.

She definitely cannot intern for a judge as they do a background check.

No one is going to be excited about committing a felony by hiring her. --LinkRemoved-- I doubt a US based firm would even talk to her about working in Canada while she is illegal. Going by that summary, OCS would be committing a felony by even letting her participate in OCI.

I also highly doubt she can sit for the bar in any state.

If your friend wants to be a lawyer, I suggest she stop being a felon, return to Canada, and apply there.


You're obviously missing the point entirely.

No one would be stupid enough to argue that a law firm would KNOWINGLY hire an illegal immigrant, genius. I think we all know that's not happening. smh

It's easy to figure out that the question asked was: Is there was any way she can somehow become legal and work for a Biglaw firm (whether it's through some kind of visa, leaving the US and applying for a job there or simply working in another country).

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Bildungsroman
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Re: Help. Illegal Immigrant (Top 6) Shooting for Biglaw.

Postby Bildungsroman » Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:06 am

Anonymous User wrote:
blowhard wrote:If she's not legal to work, I don't see any firm employing her. Most firms made me fill something out saying I was legal to work during callbacks...even ones that had seen my proof of service in the military.

She definitely cannot intern for a judge as they do a background check.

No one is going to be excited about committing a felony by hiring her. --LinkRemoved-- I doubt a US based firm would even talk to her about working in Canada while she is illegal. Going by that summary, OCS would be committing a felony by even letting her participate in OCI.

I also highly doubt she can sit for the bar in any state.

If your friend wants to be a lawyer, I suggest she stop being a felon, return to Canada, and apply there.


You're obviously missing the point entirely.

No one would be stupid enough to argue that a law firm would KNOWINGLY hire an illegal immigrant, genius. I think we all know that's not happening. smh

It's easy to figure out that the question asked was: Is there was any way she can somehow become legal and work for a Biglaw firm (whether it's through some kind of visa, leaving the US and applying for a job there or simply working in another country).
Are you the OP? Because 1. The question posed was pretty obviously not "help my friend figure out how to get legal immigrant status", and 2. Even if that was the question posed, TLS isn't here for legal advice. The OP's friend should talk to an immigration lawyer.
Last edited by Bildungsroman on Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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chiro
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Re: Help. Illegal Immigrant (Top 6) Shooting for Biglaw.

Postby chiro » Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:09 am

If she was an illegal Mexican she'd be fine. It would be "racism" not to allow it.

Canadian? Not a chance.

Plus in Canada(or wherever she hopes to use her degree) the whole "illegal" thing will come up on C&F. Even if she moves back to Canada where she is a citizen, the fact she was a knowing and willing and active criminal for that long (while enrolled in law school no less) will show she has no respect for the law and will be worse than if she had been a convicted felon prior to enrolling.

That plus with a curve, you really think people won't snitch her out to INS just to get rid of her if they think she is ANY threat to the curve, or just randomly pisses someone off? Good luck transfering those credits.

Why not just go back to Canada and get the paperwork done right, or go to school there? Either way.
Seems beyond obvious and simple.

I call flame.

Transferthrowaway
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Re: Help. Illegal Immigrant (Top 6) Shooting for Biglaw.

Postby Transferthrowaway » Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:18 am

Anonymous User wrote:If she was an illegal Mexican she'd be fine. It would be "racism" not to allow it.


lol wat

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Yeshia90
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Re: Help. Illegal Immigrant (Top 6) Shooting for Biglaw.

Postby Yeshia90 » Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:26 am

Anonymous User wrote:If she was an illegal Mexican she'd be fine. It would be "racism" not to allow it.

Canadian? Not a chance.

Plus in Canada(or wherever she hopes to use her degree) the whole "illegal" thing will come up on C&F. Even if she moves back to Canada where she is a citizen, the fact she was a knowing and willing and active criminal for that long (while enrolled in law school no less) will show she has no respect for the law and will be worse than if she had been a convicted felon prior to enrolling.

That plus with a curve, you really think people won't snitch her out to INS just to get rid of her if they think she is ANY threat to the curve, or just randomly pisses someone off? Good luck transfering those credits.

Why not just go back to Canada and get the paperwork done right, or go to school there? Either way.
Seems beyond obvious and simple.

I call flame.


I'm a 0L. Please, someone tell me law students aren't that awful as human beings.

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Re: Help. Illegal Immigrant (Top 6) Shooting for Biglaw.

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:30 am

OP here.

Thanks for the responses.

Just some clarifications: she knows a law firm is not going to hire in her current state. I figured that such a fact was not necessary to point out. Sorry for the confusion.

The questions was if she could get a legal job (through marriage? visa? I don't know -- that's why she wants to know.)
If not here in the US, else where.

If she was an illegal Mexican she'd be fine.


Really? How so?

Plus in Canada(or wherever she hopes to use her degree) the whole "illegal" thing will come up on C&F.


How would they know unless she explicitly told them though? I mean, she's gone back a few times without problems. Plus, she's interested in academia/ public-related work as well so I'm not even sure if she would take the bar if she had to go to Canada.

She will consult an immigration lawyer of course, but if anyone can give any helpful advice or anecdotes anyways, it would be appreciated.

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Re: Help. Illegal Immigrant (Top 6) Shooting for Biglaw.

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:37 am

wow.

First, the "how would they know" is just stupid. Just don't break the law and avoid the possibility.

Second, you acts like she's whore herself for the right to stay(marriage for citizenship) You know that's also illegal and just plain sad as well right?

Just tell her to go home. Start up there if she has to. Friggin' A.

Basicly you are asking "how best can she get away with the law and fix it latter" with an extra spice of "but how would they know"

Focus not on how to avoid consequences for breaking the law and focus on how to obey it. MPRE brother.

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Re: Help. Illegal Immigrant (Top 6) Shooting for Biglaw.

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:38 am

That and so much more.



Yeshia90 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:If she was an illegal Mexican she'd be fine. It would be "racism" not to allow it.

Canadian? Not a chance.

Plus in Canada(or wherever she hopes to use her degree) the whole "illegal" thing will come up on C&F. Even if she moves back to Canada where she is a citizen, the fact she was a knowing and willing and active criminal for that long (while enrolled in law school no less) will show she has no respect for the law and will be worse than if she had been a convicted felon prior to enrolling.

That plus with a curve, you really think people won't snitch her out to INS just to get rid of her if they think she is ANY threat to the curve, or just randomly pisses someone off? Good luck transfering those credits.

Why not just go back to Canada and get the paperwork done right, or go to school there? Either way.
Seems beyond obvious and simple.

I call flame.


I'm a 0L. Please, someone tell me law students aren't that awful as human beings.

2LLLL
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Re: Help. Illegal Immigrant (Top 6) Shooting for Biglaw.

Postby 2LLLL » Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:41 am

I think the bigger concern is C&F. They definitely ask for your citizenship status, SSN, and selective service info (though that won't be a red flag for your friend since she's a woman). There's a chance that a willful and continuing violation of the law could prevent you from ever being accepted to the bar.

I would not advise her to take on the risk of going to law school (which even from a T14, even from a T6, even from HYS, is not a sure bet) with this much of a risk that she will be unable to ever sit for a bar exam anywhere. Also, I don't think a US JD, even from a top school, will have tremendous utility in Canada- don't they have a completely different system?

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Re: Help. Illegal Immigrant (Top 6) Shooting for Biglaw.

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:47 am

Anonymous User wrote:wow.

First, the "how would they know" is just stupid. Just don't break the law and avoid the possibility.

Second, you acts like she's whore herself for the right to stay(marriage for citizenship) You know that's also illegal and just plain sad as well right?

Just tell her to go home. Start up there if she has to. Friggin' A.

Basicly you are asking "how best can she get away with the law and fix it latter" with an extra spice of "but how would they know"

Focus not on how to avoid consequences for breaking the law and focus on how to obey it. MPRE brother.


I think there is a misunderstanding here.

The poster I was quoting implied that Canada would just "know" that she was an illegal. I was genuinely curious as to how they would "find out." It wasn't an attempt to brush off the severity of the her situation in any way. It wasn't that kind of "EH HOW WOULD THEY KNOW" ;)

She came here when she was young, so the statement "she has no respect for the law and will be worse than if she had been a convicted felon prior to enrolling" is inaccurate. I don't really think she's trying to get away with it. It's not like she wants to remain illegal. It's just that she wants to be legal in the US, which she identifies with the most.

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Re: Help. Illegal Immigrant (Top 6) Shooting for Biglaw.

Postby descartesb4thehorse » Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:47 am

If she's not applying this cycle, why shouldn't she just go back to Canada and apply from there, get a student visa for herself for law school, and do things on the up-and-up from here on out? Also you should absolutely tell her to talk to an immigration lawyer for the time she's spent as an illegal. That may be insurmountable for C&F, and it's way too easy to prove. (I believe such applications ask where you've lived/worked for the past x years, and if the person is an immigrant, they can check to make sure all paperwork was in order for the time she would have put as being in the US.) And if USCIS knows that she's broken any visas she's had or spent any time in the US illegally, that's going to severely harm her chances of getting another visa, whether it be a student, marriage, or employment visa.

TL;DR: Stop asking us and tell her to get a good attorney. And return to Canada ASAP as to not make this even worse for herself than it already is.

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Re: Help. Illegal Immigrant (Top 6) Shooting for Biglaw.

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:48 am

2LLLL wrote:I think the bigger concern is C&F. They definitely ask for your citizenship status, SSN, and selective service info (though that won't be a red flag for your friend since she's a woman). There's a chance that a willful and continuing violation of the law could prevent you from ever being accepted to the bar.


Do they ask the Selective Service Number for those over draft age?

I remember back when I was 18 and in the NG moron employers would sometimes raise a stink about that, I was 19 before I actually signed up for it since on my 17th b-day I was on a plane to Ft. Leonardwood and no one told me you had to still register for the draft if you were in the NG. I did it once some Nam vet who somehow made it to an HR slot about stroked out told me, asked my CO if I could be drafted, he laughed, told me it was retarded but it shut the morons up by just doing it.

Laws are often stupid and for no god damn reason. Kind of like how they make registered sex offenders still register for the draft. REALLY, you think they'll let in the 300 pound guy who molested his 3 year old niece into the service war or not? Life is swell huh?

Obey the law. It's stupid and often counter productive. Just do it and move on. Not convienent for you? Self Medicate.

Anonymous User
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Re: Help. Illegal Immigrant (Top 6) Shooting for Biglaw.

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:50 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:wow.

First, the "how would they know" is just stupid. Just don't break the law and avoid the possibility.

Second, you acts like she's whore herself for the right to stay(marriage for citizenship) You know that's also illegal and just plain sad as well right?

Just tell her to go home. Start up there if she has to. Friggin' A.

Basicly you are asking "how best can she get away with the law and fix it latter" with an extra spice of "but how would they know"

Focus not on how to avoid consequences for breaking the law and focus on how to obey it. MPRE brother.


I think there is a misunderstanding here.

The poster I was quoting implied that Canada would just "know" that she was an illegal. I was genuinely curious as to how they would "find out." It wasn't an attempt to brush off the severity of the her situation in any way. It wasn't that kind of "EH HOW WOULD THEY KNOW" ;)

She came here when she was young, so the statement "she has no respect for the law and will be worse than if she had been a convicted felon prior to enrolling" is inaccurate. I don't really think she's trying to get away with it. It's not like she wants to remain illegal. It's just that she wants to be legal in the US, which she identifies with the most.


Thats like saying you didn't know you had crack in your pocket but kept it in there anyways. It's either illegal or it's not. She may not have "chose" to come, she did when it came time to stay. Simple. Very very simple.

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Re: Help. Illegal Immigrant (Top 6) Shooting for Biglaw.

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:51 am

2LLLL wrote:I think the bigger concern is C&F. They definitely ask for your citizenship status, SSN, and selective service info (though that won't be a red flag for your friend since she's a woman). There's a chance that a willful and continuing violation of the law could prevent you from ever being accepted to the bar.

I would not advise her to take on the risk of going to law school (which even from a T14, even from a T6, even from HYS, is not a sure bet) with this much of a risk that she will be unable to ever sit for a bar exam anywhere. Also, I don't think a US JD, even from a top school, will have tremendous utility in Canada- don't they have a completely different system?


Thank you for the response.

Do you think the a HYS law degree would be worth if she was looking to do academia/public related work in Canada/Europe/Asia though?
Would the degree be useless even in Canada if she was somehow able to take the bar in Canada?

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Re: Help. Illegal Immigrant (Top 6) Shooting for Biglaw.

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:52 am

descartesb4thehorse wrote:If she's not applying this cycle, why shouldn't she just go back to Canada and apply from there, get a student visa for herself for law school, and do things on the up-and-up from here on out? Also you should absolutely tell her to talk to an immigration lawyer for the time she's spent as an illegal. That may be insurmountable for C&F, and it's way too easy to prove. (I believe such applications ask where you've lived/worked for the past x years, and if the person is an immigrant, they can check to make sure all paperwork was in order for the time she would have put as being in the US.) And if USCIS knows that she's broken any visas she's had or spent any time in the US illegally, that's going to severely harm her chances of getting another visa, whether it be a student, marriage, or employment visa.

TL;DR: Stop asking us and tell her to get a good attorney. And return to Canada ASAP as to not make this even worse for herself than it already is.



As long as she isn't a coward (and wants free college anyways) this is her best shot.
I knew guys in the service post 9/11 who couldn't even speak english. They could obey just not respond beyond "yes" or "no".

--LinkRemoved--

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Re: Help. Illegal Immigrant (Top 6) Shooting for Biglaw.

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:53 am

Anonymous User wrote:
2LLLL wrote:I think the bigger concern is C&F. They definitely ask for your citizenship status, SSN, and selective service info (though that won't be a red flag for your friend since she's a woman). There's a chance that a willful and continuing violation of the law could prevent you from ever being accepted to the bar.

I would not advise her to take on the risk of going to law school (which even from a T14, even from a T6, even from HYS, is not a sure bet) with this much of a risk that she will be unable to ever sit for a bar exam anywhere. Also, I don't think a US JD, even from a top school, will have tremendous utility in Canada- don't they have a completely different system?


Thank you for the response.

Do you think the a HYS law degree would be worth if she was looking to do academia/public related work in Canada/Europe/Asia though?
Would the degree be useless even in Canada if she was somehow able to take the bar in Canada?


Canada dosn't accept ABA to practice. They have a different standard. If she wants to practice in the commonwealth she should go to a commonwealth lawschool.

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Re: Help. Illegal Immigrant (Top 6) Shooting for Biglaw.

Postby descartesb4thehorse » Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:53 am

Anonymous User wrote:
2LLLL wrote:I think the bigger concern is C&F. They definitely ask for your citizenship status, SSN, and selective service info (though that won't be a red flag for your friend since she's a woman). There's a chance that a willful and continuing violation of the law could prevent you from ever being accepted to the bar.

I would not advise her to take on the risk of going to law school (which even from a T14, even from a T6, even from HYS, is not a sure bet) with this much of a risk that she will be unable to ever sit for a bar exam anywhere. Also, I don't think a US JD, even from a top school, will have tremendous utility in Canada- don't they have a completely different system?


Thank you for the response.

Do you think the a HYS law degree would be worth if she was looking to do academia/public related work in Canada/Europe/Asia though?
Would the degree be useless even in Canada if she was somehow able to take the bar in Canada?

It's counterproductive to get a US law degree if you never plan to (and probably cannot) ever work in the US.

Anonymous User
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Re: Help. Illegal Immigrant (Top 6) Shooting for Biglaw.

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:54 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:wow.

First, the "how would they know" is just stupid. Just don't break the law and avoid the possibility.

Second, you acts like she's whore herself for the right to stay(marriage for citizenship) You know that's also illegal and just plain sad as well right?

Just tell her to go home. Start up there if she has to. Friggin' A.

Basicly you are asking "how best can she get away with the law and fix it latter" with an extra spice of "but how would they know"

Focus not on how to avoid consequences for breaking the law and focus on how to obey it. MPRE brother.


I think there is a misunderstanding here.

The poster I was quoting implied that Canada would just "know" that she was an illegal. I was genuinely curious as to how they would "find out." It wasn't an attempt to brush off the severity of the her situation in any way. It wasn't that kind of "EH HOW WOULD THEY KNOW" ;)

She came here when she was young, so the statement "she has no respect for the law and will be worse than if she had been a convicted felon prior to enrolling" is inaccurate. I don't really think she's trying to get away with it. It's not like she wants to remain illegal. It's just that she wants to be legal in the US, which she identifies with the most.


Thats like saying you didn't know you had crack in your pocket but kept it in there anyways. It's either illegal or it's not. She may not have "chose" to come, she did when it came time to stay. Simple. Very very simple.


Not a single person here was trying to argue that she wasn't illegal. She is clearly...illegal.

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yuzu
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Re: Help. Illegal Immigrant (Top 6) Shooting for Biglaw.

Postby yuzu » Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:54 am

Generally - law seems like a poor career choice for someone in that position simply because it's so strongly country-specific.

Could she get a job overseas? Legally speaking, sure. But typically you begin firm jobs as a summer associate after the second year of law school, and she wouldn't be able to return for the third year of law school. She might well not be able to pass a US state bar, and US law graduates who work overseas typically practice US law. She would not be able to visit the US to represent clients in court. So the result would be pretty much unworkable IMO unless she became qualified to practice foreign law - and in that case, why not just attend a foreign law school?

The classic "magic fix" for illegal immigrants is to marry a US citizen. If she does this it would change the situation considerably, but resolving the situation could take several years, during which she may have to leave the US. So law school would be delayed.

If the immigration authorities doesn't know she's in the US (and thus she might be readmitted) I suppose that in theory she could leave and come back on F-1 status. I think this would be very risky (as it might involve misrepresentation on a visa application) and should be discussed with an immigration lawyer if contemplated.

If she is interested in law, I would suggest a law degree in Canada or the UK, assuming she does not have legal problems in those jurisdictions.

I imagine she would be eligible for Canadian student loans in the US or elsewhere despite her illegal status, but I am not sure of this.

Why not just go back to Canada and get the paperwork done right

Because she has been illegally in the US more than a year, she is likely subject to a 10 year bar on entering the US, and even after that she might be denied entry.

No one is going to be excited about committing a felony by hiring her.

Many illegal immigrants who work in the US produce false work authorization documents. In that case the employer is not likely committing a felony, assuming the documents are convincing. However, I must say that is a rather inauspicious way for a law student to begin a legal career.

If your friend wants to be a lawyer, I suggest she stop being a felon

What crime are you accusing her of? Illegal presence in the US (e.g. by overstaying a lawful entry) is not a crime at all, much less a felony - although there are civil consequences.
http://immigration.procon.org/view.answers.php?questionID=781
Last edited by yuzu on Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Help. Illegal Immigrant (Top 6) Shooting for Biglaw.

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:57 am

descartesb4thehorse wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
2LLLL wrote:I think the bigger concern is C&F. They definitely ask for your citizenship status, SSN, and selective service info (though that won't be a red flag for your friend since she's a woman). There's a chance that a willful and continuing violation of the law could prevent you from ever being accepted to the bar.

I would not advise her to take on the risk of going to law school (which even from a T14, even from a T6, even from HYS, is not a sure bet) with this much of a risk that she will be unable to ever sit for a bar exam anywhere. Also, I don't think a US JD, even from a top school, will have tremendous utility in Canada- don't they have a completely different system?


Thank you for the response.

Do you think the a HYS law degree would be worth if she was looking to do academia/public related work in Canada/Europe/Asia though?
Would the degree be useless even in Canada if she was somehow able to take the bar in Canada?

It's counterproductive to get a US law degree if you never plan to (and probably cannot) ever work in the US.


Wouldn't an HYS degree be worthwhile even if outside of the US if she's looking at academia though?

Anonymous User
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Re: Help. Illegal Immigrant (Top 6) Shooting for Biglaw.

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:58 am

It is not illegal to be illegal.......... :|

I always love that argument.

Seriously it only works for the Mexicans, it won't work for anyone else.

The Mexicans can have marches and have their photos and names in magazines with their opinions on it and be ok, Canadian she'd be screwed. Just would. No love for Whittie.

Anonymous User
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Re: Help. Illegal Immigrant (Top 6) Shooting for Biglaw.

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:00 am

If she is just looking at academia, just have her get a Dr of Education degree (or anything else I guess) IN CANADA!!!! Why is it so important "she" stay here (it's you, we know it's you)

Mexico is scary, people kill you.

Canada is mounties and visits from the Queen. What's so damn scary about going back to that?




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