Do I have to shave for an 1L summer interview with a judge?

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Re: Do I have to shave for an 1L summer interview with a judge?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:54 pm

kalvano wrote:Nothing about the picture of The Timberlake's facial hair is appropriate for an interview. Either have a real, neatly-trimmed beard, or shave. None of this in-between sloppy crap. That's not a beard, it's just pure fuckery and laziness.


Anonymous user above. This is exactly right.

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bk1
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Re: Do I have to shave for an 1L summer interview with a judge?

Postby bk1 » Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Anyone else can have a cogent opinion about that, but there's no cogency in the opinion that having facial hair hurts someone in biglaw or any other law-related interview. There is some cogency in the opinion of not having really poorly kept facial hair. But well trimmed and shaped facial hair? You're out of your mind.

Wasn't trying to brag about my offers (though clearly YOU seem sensitive about that since you felt the need to emphasize it). Was just trying to give an example of how it clearly didn't hurt me to have facial hair.


Why take the risk though? It didn't hurt you, but there's a higher chance that your average Joe would be hurt by having an (even neatly trimmed) beard than he would be hurt by being clean shaven. I tend to think that a neat/tidy beard would be fine most of the time, but I see no reason to take the risk.

It's like all the other fashion stuff. You can wear a black suit, lavender shirt, cufflinks, etc, but why do that when there is a small chance it could hurt you even slightly? Once you have a job feel free to exercise your individuality as much as you see fit, but it seems foolish to take such a risk prior to actually having a job when there is nothing to gain from it.

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Re: Do I have to shave for an 1L summer interview with a judge?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anyone else can have a cogent opinion about that, but there's no cogency in the opinion that having facial hair hurts someone in biglaw or any other law-related interview. There is some cogency in the opinion of not having really poorly kept facial hair. But well trimmed and shaped facial hair? You're out of your mind.

Wasn't trying to brag about my offers (though clearly YOU seem sensitive about that since you felt the need to emphasize it). Was just trying to give an example of how it clearly didn't hurt me to have facial hair.


"Aspie law student shitheads" was already taken by an above poster. I went with what I had.

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kalvano
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Re: Do I have to shave for an 1L summer interview with a judge?

Postby kalvano » Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:15 pm

People always talk about "the risk" of facial hair, the two threads over speak of how the only things that really matter to potential employers are grades.

If some sort of neatly-trimmed beard was the deciding factor, you weren't going to get the job anyway. I've hired a lot of people, and been in debates about hiring people, and never once, not a single time, did the phrase "yeah, he's perfect for the job, but he has a beard, so no thanks" come up.

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Re: Do I have to shave for an 1L summer interview with a judge?

Postby bk1 » Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:28 pm

kalvano wrote:People always talk about "the risk" of facial hair, the two threads over speak of how the only things that really matter to potential employers are grades.

If some sort of neatly-trimmed beard was the deciding factor, you weren't going to get the job anyway. I've hired a lot of people, and been in debates about hiring people, and never once, not a single time, did the phrase "yeah, he's perfect for the job, but he has a beard, so no thanks" come up.


I think most people overestimate their ability to make a decent neat/tidy beard (then again I do know a lot of Asians who could barely grow facial hair to save their life). I'm not saying that it will ever be the deciding factor, or even something that they are cognizant of, but it could create an initial bias that the candidate has to overcome (which might be compounded by other nitpicky things).

I'm just talking about my experiences and listening to my employers talk about candidates. I don't think I've ever heard a beard called out in particular but I have heard things along the lines of sloppy/unorganized and I think that a beard might contribute to that perception if there are other issues. I think it is quite a small risk.

I also think there's something of the "if you have to ask" issue. If you have to ask whether you should sport a beard, even neatly trimmed, you probably shouldn't.

EDIT: I think I'm becoming more open to the idea that it's not really an issue if done right, though I'm still of the mind that you're not really losing much by shaving it off so why not.

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kalvano
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Re: Do I have to shave for an 1L summer interview with a judge?

Postby kalvano » Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:33 pm

bk1 wrote:
kalvano wrote:People always talk about "the risk" of facial hair, the two threads over speak of how the only things that really matter to potential employers are grades.

If some sort of neatly-trimmed beard was the deciding factor, you weren't going to get the job anyway. I've hired a lot of people, and been in debates about hiring people, and never once, not a single time, did the phrase "yeah, he's perfect for the job, but he has a beard, so no thanks" come up.


I think most people overestimate their ability to make a decent neat/tidy beard (then again I do know a lot of Asians who could barely grow facial hair to save their life). I'm not saying that it will ever be the deciding factor, or even something that they are cognizant of, but it could create an initial bias that the candidate has to overcome (which might be compounded by other nitpicky things).

I'm just talking about my experiences and listening to my employers talk about candidates. I don't think I've ever heard a beard called out in particular but I have heard things along the lines of sloppy/unorganized and I think that a beard might contribute to that perception if there are other issues. I think it is quite a small risk.

I also think there's something of the "if you have to ask" issue. If you have to ask whether you should sport a beard, even neatly trimmed, you probably shouldn't.

EDIT: I think I'm becoming more open to the idea that it's not really an issue if done right, though I'm still of the mind that you're not really losing much by shaving it off so why not.



I think that is probably a fair assessment.

I've had a beard for almost 14 years. I'd feel incredibly weird without it. I think any benefit to being clean-shaven would be offset by how uncomfortable I would be without it.

For what it's worth, my SA position came from an interview with a guy who is the most exacting dresser I have ever seen in my life. Everything was absolutely perfect, and the firm tends to expect a high-quality of personal appearance from associates, in a fairly traditional manner. I had no issues with the beard at all.

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Re: Do I have to shave for an 1L summer interview with a judge?

Postby bk1 » Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:54 pm

kalvano wrote:I've had a beard for almost 14 years. I'd feel incredibly weird without it. I think any benefit to being clean-shaven would be offset by how uncomfortable I would be without it.


I think this is a great point and something to consider. Though I'd imagine it applies to very few law students.

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Re: Do I have to shave for an 1L summer interview with a judge?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Feb 11, 2012 7:17 pm

bk1 wrote:
kalvano wrote:I've had a beard for almost 14 years. I'd feel incredibly weird without it. I think any benefit to being clean-shaven would be offset by how uncomfortable I would be without it.


I think this is a great point and something to consider. Though I'd imagine it applies to very few law students.


I've had a full beard since my freshman year of high school. I'm a real man.

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Re: Do I have to shave for an 1L summer interview with a judge?

Postby 071816 » Sat Feb 11, 2012 7:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
bk1 wrote:
kalvano wrote:I've had a beard for almost 14 years. I'd feel incredibly weird without it. I think any benefit to being clean-shaven would be offset by how uncomfortable I would be without it.


I think this is a great point and something to consider. Though I'd imagine it applies to very few law students.


I've had a full beard since my freshman year of high school. I'm a real man.


Real men don't post anonymously in a thread about facial hair.




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