better salary/ job than big law

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stjohns
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better salary/ job than big law

Postby stjohns » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:30 pm

just curious. is there a better job out there, in the non legal world, that pays its first years better than big law, i.e 160k. how much do ppl at finance jobs make when they start

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bk1
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Re: better salary/ job than big law

Postby bk1 » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:38 pm

Not necessarily a fair comparison since biglaw requires extra schooling that other jobs don't.

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20130312
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Re: better salary/ job than big law

Postby 20130312 » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:39 pm

iBanking first years in NYC make ~100-130k after bonus (typically 10-15% of salary). It blows up after getting the MBA, though.

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Big Shrimpin
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Re: better salary/ job than big law

Postby Big Shrimpin » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:55 pm

InGoodFaith wrote:iBanking first years in NYC make ~100-130k after bonus (typically 10-15% of salary). It blows up after getting the MBA, though.


Hm. Most of my friends in NYC banks usually got, I think, like 50-60k plus bonus of 100% salary...but total comp still 100-130k. Their hours, however, were terrible (e.g. average of 80-90 hrs/wk as analysts).

Anonymous User
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Re: better salary/ job than big law

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:57 pm

those ppl got their jobs straight out of college and were making 100k?

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Big Shrimpin
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Re: better salary/ job than big law

Postby Big Shrimpin » Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:those ppl got their jobs straight out of college and were making 100k?


Yes.

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Lwoods
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Re: better salary/ job than big law

Postby Lwoods » Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:16 pm

Big Shrimpin wrote:
InGoodFaith wrote:iBanking first years in NYC make ~100-130k after bonus (typically 10-15% of salary). It blows up after getting the MBA, though.


Hm. Most of my friends in NYC banks usually got, I think, like 50-60k plus bonus of 100% salary...but total comp still 100-130k. Their hours, however, were terrible (e.g. average of 80-90 hrs/wk as analysts).


The analyst I worked with in NY (in 2007) made $80k + 100% bonus, so close to the $160k.
My friend in PE (her first year out of undergrad) had a $100k bonus her first year (07-08) but then saw it drop to $10k her second because that's when everything went to shit. Not sure what her base was, though. I assume it somewhere around $80k. She made enough to max out her 401k, put her entire bonus in savings (minus one lavish dinner) and still buy a few nice designer items here and there.
They work insane hours, but so do biglaw associates.

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Re: better salary/ job than big law

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:32 pm

standard BB i-banking analyst salary was around 65K plus 100% bonus (Pre-crash) in NYC

80K base is well above market

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Big Shrimpin
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Re: better salary/ job than big law

Postby Big Shrimpin » Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:49 pm

Lwoods wrote:
Big Shrimpin wrote:
InGoodFaith wrote:iBanking first years in NYC make ~100-130k after bonus (typically 10-15% of salary). It blows up after getting the MBA, though.


Hm. Most of my friends in NYC banks usually got, I think, like 50-60k plus bonus of 100% salary...but total comp still 100-130k. Their hours, however, were terrible (e.g. average of 80-90 hrs/wk as analysts).


The analyst I worked with in NY (in 2007) made $80k + 100% bonus, so close to the $160k.
My friend in PE (her first year out of undergrad) had a $100k bonus her first year (07-08) but then saw it drop to $10k her second because that's when everything went to shit. Not sure what her base was, though. I assume it somewhere around $80k. She made enough to max out her 401k, put her entire bonus in savings (minus one lavish dinner) and still buy a few nice designer items here and there.
They work insane hours, but so do biglaw associates.


Yeh. Lots of my banking bros saw their bonuses shrink as well. Their bonuses, however, have risen back up to near pre-recession levels. fml.

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Re: better salary/ job than big law

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:47 pm

I worked in ibd at a bulge bracket NY bank for 2 years before law school (fall 2008 to summer 2010)
My girlfriend started at another BB bank in 2009 and works there today.

I wouldn't say either of us are "star performers" and neither of us are in the groups that got hit hard (like leveraged finance) or in the groups that have been super busy (like financial sponsors). Our total compensation package is probably around median or slightly below--though I can only speculate.

as a basis for comparison:

first year: $10k signing + $65k base + ~$35k total bonus (paid out in multiple instances, including closing bonuses on deals) = ~$110k
second year: $80k base + $45k bonus = $125k

girlfriend:
first year: $10k signing + $70k base + ~$50k bonus = $130k
second year: $100k base + $20k bonus = $120k

it's worth noting that she receives several rounds of bonuses each year and a lot of it is dependent on the deal closing

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crazycanuck
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Re: better salary/ job than big law

Postby crazycanuck » Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:34 pm

Start your own tech business, hope you get lucky, and retire at the age of 25.

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Old Gregg
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Re: better salary/ job than big law

Postby Old Gregg » Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:16 am

1) You have to realize that even if ibankers are making less in salary terms, they're still really making more since they usually don't have an assload of student debt.

2) This year's banker bonuses weren't really that high. In terms of salary, I think law won out... not taking into account the student debt of course.

Incubateus
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Re: better salary/ job than big law

Postby Incubateus » Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:22 am

Petroleum Engineering: avg. 160k/yr

That is the highest paying undergrad degree and obviously varies from school to school.

Two other jobs at the graduate level that pay considerably higher than most are phds in Physics and phds in economics.

In terms of highest paid professions by mid career, I believe surgeons make the most money.

EDIT: The finance question can vary greatly. I know some who worked in finance and made 25k per year (entire departments in fact). While I know others who exceed over 1,000,000. The other thing to note is that many phds in physics later went on to work in finance (modeling and computer algorithms and such) after the cold war.

Stevoman
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Re: better salary/ job than big law

Postby Stevoman » Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:13 am

This really isn't a good comparison to make.

A lot of medical professions will start out lower than a first year big law, but cap out way higher.
Certain engineering professions (especially chem+petrol) can start out higher than big law, but cap out lower.

And this doesn't even factor in quality of life (60+ hours/week in big law, while a lot of engineers will barely break 40 hours/week, depending on how chill the employer is).

bdubs
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Re: better salary/ job than big law

Postby bdubs » Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:15 am

Incubateus wrote:Petroleum Engineering: avg. 160k/yr

That is the highest paying undergrad degree and obviously varies from school to school.

Two other jobs at the graduate level that pay considerably higher than most are phds in Physics and phds in economics.

In terms of highest paid professions by mid career, I believe surgeons make the most money.

EDIT: The finance question can vary greatly. I know some who worked in finance and made 25k per year (entire departments in fact). While I know others who exceed over 1,000,000. The other thing to note is that many phds in physics later went on to work in finance (modeling and computer algorithms and such) after the cold war.


That figure for petroleum engineer is mid-career, not starting salary.

http://www.payscale.com/best-colleges/degrees.asp

Most Econ PhD's don't make 160k as a starting salary, a few make more but it's not common.

http://www.aeaweb.org/students/Careers.php

The finance stuff is BS, ibanking and PE are a different subset of careers from corporate finance at a small businesses.

c3pO4
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Re: better salary/ job than big law

Postby c3pO4 » Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:30 am

computer science starts at 80-100k from a top 10 engineering program, mid-career is 150k and tops out at 250k. all the while, you get sick amounts of equity with potential for 200k all the way up to millions if companies exit or go through multiple rounds and you unload your shares on secondary markets. you can start your own co and get talent aquired at huge multiples of compensation as well. most new billionaires today? computer science. largest / most successful companies in the world right now? computer science. reason for law rebounding in some markets like SV? computer science. nuff said.

yale2011
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Re: better salary/ job than big law

Postby yale2011 » Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:03 am

.
Last edited by yale2011 on Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Bronck
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Re: better salary/ job than big law

Postby Bronck » Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:06 pm

c3pO4 wrote:computer science starts at 80-100k from a top 10 engineering program, mid-career is 150k and tops out at 250k. all the while, you get sick amounts of equity with potential for 200k all the way up to millions if companies exit or go through multiple rounds and you unload your shares on secondary markets. you can start your own co and get talent aquired at huge multiples of compensation as well. most new billionaires today? computer science. largest / most successful companies in the world right now? computer science. reason for law rebounding in some markets like SV? computer science. nuff said.


lol wut?

005618502
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Re: better salary/ job than big law

Postby 005618502 » Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:59 pm

Could one get into investment banking with a liberal arts degree from a Top public UG? think UCLA/UT

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Big Shrimpin
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Re: better salary/ job than big law

Postby Big Shrimpin » Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:01 pm

AssumptionRequired wrote:Could one get into investment banking with a liberal arts degree from a Top public UG? think UCLA/UT


If you have the right connections/can convince them you're a fast-learner, I don't see why not.

IIRC, almost all of my ibanking bros were double/triple majors with at least one of: engineering, finance, economics, management, or foreign language. HTH

005618502
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Re: better salary/ job than big law

Postby 005618502 » Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:02 pm

Big Shrimpin wrote:
AssumptionRequired wrote:Could one get into investment banking with a liberal arts degree from a Top public UG? think UCLA/UT


If you have the right connections/can convince them you're a fast-learner, I don't see why not.

IIRC, almost all of my ibanking bros were double/triple majors with at least one of: engineering, finance, economics, management, or foreign language. HTH


Which ibanking companies start at these high of salaries? I have a buddy who works for JPmorgan and doesnt make 100K+ in his first year...

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Re: better salary/ job than big law

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:34 pm

AssumptionRequired wrote:
Big Shrimpin wrote:
AssumptionRequired wrote:Could one get into investment banking with a liberal arts degree from a Top public UG? think UCLA/UT


If you have the right connections/can convince them you're a fast-learner, I don't see why not.

IIRC, almost all of my ibanking bros were double/triple majors with at least one of: engineering, finance, economics, management, or foreign language. HTH


Which ibanking companies start at these high of salaries? I have a buddy who works for JPmorgan and doesnt make 100K+ in his first year...


Former JPM IBD analyst here. First year base salary in banking right now is 70K + 10K signing bonus, plus 40K - 60K end of the year bonus (note that if you quit before bonus payday, your compensation that year is much lower). So the 100K+ is total compensation. If your buddy is at JPM in a non-investment banking role (ie: strategy, risk management, other middle to back office things), the starting salary is the same but there is no giant end of year bonus.

It is possible to get into IBD from a top public school, but the path is less well-defined, requires some hustle, plus other recognizable work experience on your resume (like F500, other finance/consulting experience, etc.).

09042014
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Re: better salary/ job than big law

Postby 09042014 » Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:41 pm

c3pO4 wrote:computer science starts at 80-100k from a top 10 engineering program, mid-career is 150k and tops out at 250k. all the while, you get sick amounts of equity with potential for 200k all the way up to millions if companies exit or go through multiple rounds and you unload your shares on secondary markets. you can start your own co and get talent aquired at huge multiples of compensation as well. most new billionaires today? computer science. largest / most successful companies in the world right now? computer science. reason for law rebounding in some markets like SV? computer science. nuff said.



1) The job market for CS isn't as prestige whorish. So just going to a T10 CS program doesn't mean you get a great job. Somebody from a lesser school still has a decent shot. There isn't a top CS school cartel taking a majority of the jobs like law, banking, etc etc.

2) 80-100K starting? At MS, Google, and Facebook but not for the vast majority of graduates. 50-60K is probably median from a top10 program.

3) Only startups give equity, and they don't all end up like facebook. And usually you get equity because you are making less than what you should. It's a gamble the employee takes.

4) They top out a lot closer to 150 than to 250 unless you are a rockstar.

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Re: better salary/ job than big law

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:14 pm

World Bankers do great on a per hour basis. My husband, straight out of undergrad, earned $70,000 a year. People with Masters get in the $100,000 range I hear, and a top manager can get something like $250,000. My husband got every other Friday off and worked from 8:30 to 6:00, and apparently he was one of the most hard-working people in the office. He got five weeks of yearly vacation and 3 weeks of sick leave. People actually take those weeks off... the Bank is full of Europeans who have different expectations of hours to be worked than Americans.

acrossthelake
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Re: better salary/ job than big law

Postby acrossthelake » Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:04 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
c3pO4 wrote:computer science starts at 80-100k from a top 10 engineering program, mid-career is 150k and tops out at 250k. all the while, you get sick amounts of equity with potential for 200k all the way up to millions if companies exit or go through multiple rounds and you unload your shares on secondary markets. you can start your own co and get talent aquired at huge multiples of compensation as well. most new billionaires today? computer science. largest / most successful companies in the world right now? computer science. reason for law rebounding in some markets like SV? computer science. nuff said.



1) The job market for CS isn't as prestige whorish. So just going to a T10 CS program doesn't mean you get a great job. Somebody from a lesser school still has a decent shot. There isn't a top CS school cartel taking a majority of the jobs like law, banking, etc etc.

2) 80-100K starting? At MS, Google, and Facebook but not for the vast majority of graduates. 50-60K is probably median from a top10 program.

3) Only startups give equity, and they don't all end up like facebook. And usually you get equity because you are making less than what you should. It's a gamble the employee takes.

4) They top out a lot closer to 150 than to 250 unless you are a rockstar.


Yeah this. I grew up near several major tech companies, and the majority of my friends had one or both parents working in one of those companies. A lot of their parents made between 80-120K (and did a generally good job), but didn't go further. You need to really advance to the point where you're not really doing CS anymore to get past that general ceiling, which is not something most of them had any real desire nor personality for. It's a great life, though. Esp. when they're married to each other, it's more than enough to afford a nice house in a nice neighborhood and live a life of comfort. Plus they're usually home by 6pm.




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