CU inflated curve, I'm buried.

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CU inflated curve, I'm buried.

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 05, 2012 1:30 am

I made a couple A-s at CU Boulder and my GPA is like a 3.44ish. Just got our 1L grade decals and the top third is a 3.55. WTF? I thought I did ok/pretty well and now I know I'm way behind. Employment here seems to have taken a nose dive --- --LinkRemoved--

Median went from like 108k to 56k. I know BOTH of those are probably inflated but, uh, fuck. Guess not many jobs in the front range?

Is it common for a school to have a 3.3 hypothetical curve and have top third be 3.55? (curve here just says "curve to a B+ in all classes") Our school doesn't even give A +s. I would have to make an A- in every one on my second semester classes to crack the top third, and just barely at that. One of my buddies here, probably the smartest guy I have ever met, is at median and I just ran the math and he would have to make an A in all of this classes to crack the top 1/3.

From the looks of it, it seems that a ton of us are irreconcylibly buried as we only have one more semester before OCI to bring our grades up, and OCI if your not in the top 1/3 looks to be pretty rough here. As in, I don't even think they really have one.

This is really just a rant but feel free to respond if you'd like. For what is worth I love it here-- the town and area is gorgeous and all the people are great. Just that I spend 20k a year in tuition and I'm starting to become nervous about how this is all going to work out financially. Are they handing out A-'s here like candy and I just didn't know about it? I know that A is the highest grade and according to my profs in a small class of twenty they only give 1, maybe 2.

Damn.

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johansantana21
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Re: CU inflated curve, I'm buried.

Postby johansantana21 » Sun Feb 05, 2012 1:35 am

...and?

You didn't know the employment prospects for people at CU before coming?

I don't exactly see what the complaint here is. The inflated curve did not hurt you -- they could have curved to a 3.0 and you would most likely have a similar class rank.

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bk1
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Re: CU inflated curve, I'm buried.

Postby bk1 » Sun Feb 05, 2012 1:36 am

3.55 doesn't sound off for top 1/3. My school has a B+ curve and top 1/3 is around 3.5.

Honestly, even for the class of 2009, Boulder looked like one of the worst T1's (--LinkRemoved--). Over 1/3 of the class didn't get full time jobs as lawyers. TLS likes to think that better T1's are generally those without as much competition, but Boulder's stats put it in Hastings/Davis territory.

I don't think pinning your hopes on OCI, even before your grades, was a good idea. You really just gotta hustle.

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johansantana21
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Re: CU inflated curve, I'm buried.

Postby johansantana21 » Sun Feb 05, 2012 1:38 am

bk1 wrote:3.55 doesn't sound off for top 1/3. My school has a B+ curve and top 1/3 is around 3.5.

Honestly, even for the class of 2009, Boulder looked like one of the worst T1's (--LinkRemoved--). Over 1/3 of the class didn't get full time jobs as lawyers. TLS likes to think that better T1's are generally those without as much competition, but Boulder's stats put it in Hastings/Davis territory.


Don't you go to NU? I thought the curve there was similar to Cornell's. Our top third is probably around 3.65...

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bk1
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Re: CU inflated curve, I'm buried.

Postby bk1 » Sun Feb 05, 2012 1:39 am

johansantana21 wrote:
bk1 wrote:3.55 doesn't sound off for top 1/3. My school has a B+ curve and top 1/3 is around 3.5.

Honestly, even for the class of 2009, Boulder looked like one of the worst T1's (--LinkRemoved--). Over 1/3 of the class didn't get full time jobs as lawyers. TLS likes to think that better T1's are generally those without as much competition, but Boulder's stats put it in Hastings/Davis territory.


Don't you go to NU? I thought the curve there was similar to Cornell's. Our top third is probably around 3.65...


We don't ever get official ranks. It's what I've been told on TLS.

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romothesavior
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Re: CU inflated curve, I'm buried.

Postby romothesavior » Sun Feb 05, 2012 1:40 am

johansantana21 wrote:...and?

You didn't know the employment prospects for people at CU before coming?

I don't exactly see what the complaint here is. The inflated curve did not hurt you -- they could have curved to a 3.0 and you would most likely have a similar class rank.

I think this is probably right. You should have done your homework before you went to law school. CU's placement is not great. You decided to play the game at a school like CU, and so far you are losing. You're only one semester in, and you can still get your grades up, but you can't really be too upset. The information was all out there. You're going to probably need to be top 20-25% to have any sort of shot at a big firm job, and even that might not do it. Welcome to the new economy.

I will say that your new CSO is a rockstar. Utilize him and their office. And I guess other than that, just get your grades up.

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Re: CU inflated curve, I'm buried.

Postby bk1 » Sun Feb 05, 2012 1:42 am

OP: Depending on your CoL, it sounds like you'll definitely be under 100k in debt. You have decent grades. You don't seem screwed, though getting a job seems like it won't be as easy as just going through OCI.

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johansantana21
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Re: CU inflated curve, I'm buried.

Postby johansantana21 » Sun Feb 05, 2012 1:42 am

bk1 wrote:
johansantana21 wrote:
bk1 wrote:3.55 doesn't sound off for top 1/3. My school has a B+ curve and top 1/3 is around 3.5.

Honestly, even for the class of 2009, Boulder looked like one of the worst T1's (--LinkRemoved--). Over 1/3 of the class didn't get full time jobs as lawyers. TLS likes to think that better T1's are generally those without as much competition, but Boulder's stats put it in Hastings/Davis territory.


Don't you go to NU? I thought the curve there was similar to Cornell's. Our top third is probably around 3.65...


We don't ever get official ranks. It's what I've been told on TLS.


You guys don't even get top 10% cutoff gpas?

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kalvano
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Re: CU inflated curve, I'm buried.

Postby kalvano » Sun Feb 05, 2012 1:42 am

LOL grade inflation. I feel like I ought to put my school's curve on my resume.

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bk1
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Re: CU inflated curve, I'm buried.

Postby bk1 » Sun Feb 05, 2012 1:45 am

johansantana21 wrote:You guys don't even get top 10% cutoff gpas?


Not to my knowledge.

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Re: CU inflated curve, I'm buried.

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 05, 2012 1:45 am

johansantana21 wrote:
bk1 wrote:3.55 doesn't sound off for top 1/3. My school has a B+ curve and top 1/3 is around 3.5.

Honestly, even for the class of 2009, Boulder looked like one of the worst T1's (--LinkRemoved--). Over 1/3 of the class didn't get full time jobs as lawyers. TLS likes to think that better T1's are generally those without as much competition, but Boulder's stats put it in Hastings/Davis territory.


Don't you go to NU? I thought the curve there was similar to Cornell's. Our top third is probably around 3.65...


nalp says top 10% is 3.67 at cornell

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johansantana21
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Re: CU inflated curve, I'm buried.

Postby johansantana21 » Sun Feb 05, 2012 1:45 am

bk1 wrote:
johansantana21 wrote:You guys don't even get top 10% cutoff gpas?


Not to my knowledge.


That's horrible, how will straight A students feel good about themselves.

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Re: CU inflated curve, I'm buried.

Postby coldshoulder » Sun Feb 05, 2012 1:48 am

Making me think twice about CU...damn.

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Re: CU inflated curve, I'm buried.

Postby nonprofit-prophet » Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:03 am

Anonymous User wrote:
johansantana21 wrote:
bk1 wrote:3.55 doesn't sound off for top 1/3. My school has a B+ curve and top 1/3 is around 3.5.

Honestly, even for the class of 2009, Boulder looked like one of the worst T1's (--LinkRemoved--). Over 1/3 of the class didn't get full time jobs as lawyers. TLS likes to think that better T1's are generally those without as much competition, but Boulder's stats put it in Hastings/Davis territory.


Don't you go to NU? I thought the curve there was similar to Cornell's. Our top third is probably around 3.65...


nalp says top 10% is 3.67 at cornell


wow. UT is like a 3.8 for top 10%. We have a B+ curve with 3.62 being top 25%

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Re: CU inflated curve, I'm buried.

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:28 pm

Is the clerkship figure right? CU only placed three federal clerks last year? That's hard to believe -- it means that you probably need to be in the top 5 (students, not percent) in order to have a fighting chance at even a D. Colo. clerkship. Yikes. If I recall correctly, the figure for DU was two students, but I just chalked that up to it being a T2 school. If the odds aren't much better for Boulder, then that is a bit scary.

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Re: CU inflated curve, I'm buried.

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:35 pm

They placed 10% in Art. 3 clerkships the year before. Is that the same as Fed Ct clerkships, or is there overlap on the Fed side? Pardon my ignorance.

I dunno maybe this was just an outlier, I think usually they have a lot of clerks.

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Re: CU inflated curve, I'm buried.

Postby nonprofit-prophet » Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:51 pm

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:They placed 10% in Art. 3 clerkships the year before. Is that the same as Fed Ct clerkships, or is there overlap on the Fed side? Pardon my ignorance.

I dunno maybe this was just an outlier, I think usually they have a lot of clerks.


I believe federal judges is a broader category than Art. III judges. Federal ct clerkships include Magistrates, which, I believe, are not considered Art. III

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Re: CU inflated curve, I'm buried.

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:18 pm

They placed 10% in Art. 3 clerkships the year before


Article III excludes magistrates and bankruptcy judges.

Is the 10% figure right? That sounds as absurdly high as three students sounds absurdly low. A 10% AIII placement rate would slot CU right with Chicago and NYU, depending on the year (i.e., it looks like both of those schools had <10% AIII clerkship placement in 2009, but >10% in 2010). Probably Columbia as well, though I can't find those numbers.

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Re: CU inflated curve, I'm buried.

Postby LeDique » Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote: Are they handing out A-'s here like candy and I just didn't know about it? I know that A is the highest grade and according to my profs in a small class of twenty they only give 1, maybe 2.

Damn.


Uh, the grade distribution charts are in the library and have been since last week. Why don't you look at them to see your specific professor's grade distribution? In my LRW class (the only class with 20 people), there were about 4 or 5 A's.

ETA: I'm not really sure what the point of your rant is. You knew (or really should have) that employment out of CU isn't the greatest and that the curve exists. That seems to sum up your post from where I'm sitting.

And lawschooltransparency says 7.6% out of the entire class - I think it's 10% of reporting get Art3.

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Re: CU inflated curve, I'm buried.

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:00 pm

LeDique wrote:
Anonymous User wrote: Are they handing out A-'s here like candy and I just didn't know about it? I know that A is the highest grade and according to my profs in a small class of twenty they only give 1, maybe 2.

Damn.


Uh, the grade distribution charts are in the library and have been since last week. Why don't you look at them to see your specific professor's grade distribution? In my LRW class (the only class with 20 people), there were about 4 or 5 A's.

ETA: I'm not really sure what the point of your rant is. You knew (or really should have) that employment out of CU isn't the greatest and that the curve exists. That seems to sum up your post from where I'm sitting.

And lawschooltransparency says 7.6% out of the entire class - I think it's 10% of reporting get Art3.



LeDique wrote:
Anonymous User wrote: Are they handing out A-'s here like candy and I just didn't know about it? I know that A is the highest grade and according to my profs in a small class of twenty they only give 1, maybe 2.

Damn.


Uh, the grade distribution charts are in the library and have been since last week. Why don't you look at them to see your specific professor's grade distribution? In my LRW class (the only class with 20 people), there were about 4 or 5 A's.

ETA: I'm not really sure what the point of your rant is. You knew (or really should have) that employment out of CU isn't the greatest and that the curve exists. That seems to sum up your post from where I'm sitting.

And lawschooltransparency says 7.6% out of the entire class - I think it's 10% of reporting get Art3.



Thanks for this. Looked at the chart when the library opened this morning and I was way off. Seems like 20% - 30%, mostly around 30%, of each class received an A- or better. I was just way off on my expectations. It would seem from the ranks and deciles that success in one class here means success in others. A little shaky on the math here but of the x number a people who theoretically could have a higher GPA than me a very large number of those do.

The CU info on USNews says 10% of class got Art 3 for 2009.

Also rants are often rants because they lack a discernable point. Just FYI

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Re: CU inflated curve, I'm buried.

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:10 pm

The CU info on USNews says 10% of class got Art 3 for 2009.


Let me guess. That's the same year that reported a $100k+ median salary, right? If so, then the number isn't worth the paper it was printed on. It means that 10% of the people who responded to the CU CSO inquiries had AIII clerkships. And if CU is like many of the other non-elite schools, it tried really, really hard to track down grads known to be at big firms and clerkships. Not so much the rest.

That probably means that 6-8 students in 2009 got AIII clerkships (so 3-4% of the class), which would be right about what I'd expect.

ETA: I just looked at lawschooltransparency.com. For the class of 2008, 4.7% of the class (9 students or so) clerked for an AIII judge, but 19.3% (36 students or so) clerked for a non-AIII judge. For the class of 2010, per the school's own numbers, the figures are 1.6% (for "federal court" -- some of these could be non-AIII) and 12.6%. Yet for the class of 2009, it lists it as 7.6% AIII (14 students) and 5.4% non-AIII (10 students). There must be something really screwy going on here to explain why the school went from a handful of AIII clerks and 4x that in non-AIII clerks, to nearly twice as many AIII clerks and 2/3 of that non-AIII clerks, back to a few AIII clerks and then 8x that non-AIII clerks.

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Re: CU inflated curve, I'm buried.

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:03 pm

this stat looks suspicious, I'll agree. one thing that was mentioned before is that sometimes smaller schools can have huge percentage swings simply because they were so small. Maybe in 2009 eight more people with the grades decided that they wanted to clerk than in 2008. Boom.

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Re: CU inflated curve, I'm buried.

Postby sunynp » Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:35 pm

So what should he do, drop out? Maybe he made a mistake in going, but so did 65% or more of the rest of the people who are in law school this year, and the past two years as well.

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Re: CU inflated curve, I'm buried.

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:35 pm

CU raised its median last year from a B to a B+, and switched from a numerical system to a letter grade system. The administration's explanation was that this was to help students compete with DU students for certain employment opportunities that have a strict grade cutoff. Take it for what it's worth.

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Re: CU inflated curve, I'm buried.

Postby sunynp » Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:CU raised its median last year from a B to a B+, and switched from a numerical system to a letter grade system. The administration's explanation was that this was to help students compete with DU students for certain employment opportunities that have a strict grade cutoff. Take it for what it's worth.

So did it work? How many more jobs are we talking about?




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