PSA: There is no such distinction as "V15"

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Anonymous User
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Re: PSA: There is no such distinction as "V15"

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
dood wrote:
Dany wrote:OP outed as working at a VsixTTTeen.


i LOLd for real and hard

but lets be honest, there is no prestige in law to begin with. all those names listed on vault dont mean shit. things that are prestigious: rhodes scholarship, SCOTUS clerkship, G&S, bain capital, st. tropez, etc <- no law firm fits into this list


With the exception of the Rhodes, none of those things is prestigious to your average person.


A clerkship with the Supreme Court isn't prestigious to the average person...?

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Old Gregg
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Re: PSA: There is no such distinction as "V15"

Postby Old Gregg » Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
dood wrote:
Dany wrote:OP outed as working at a VsixTTTeen.


i LOLd for real and hard

but lets be honest, there is no prestige in law to begin with. all those names listed on vault dont mean shit. things that are prestigious: rhodes scholarship, SCOTUS clerkship, G&S, bain capital, st. tropez, etc <- no law firm fits into this list


With the exception of the Rhodes, none of those things is prestigious to your average person.


A clerkship with the Supreme Court isn't prestigious to the average person...?


...average person probably doesn't know what a clerkship is.

Law Student: I clerk for the Supreme Court.
Average Person: 3 years of law school and you're only a secretary?

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Grizz
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Re: PSA: There is no such distinction as "V15"

Postby Grizz » Sat Feb 04, 2012 2:22 pm

thesealocust wrote:I'm going to play contrarian here and say it's a useful distinction. Not because it's real (it's not) or because it matters (it doesn't) but because people need to discuss things on this board with a measure of anonymity.

It's a little pedantic, but... what's the alternative? "I work for a very large firm with many strong practice areas and recognition in an east coast city" just takes way more words :P

Except I generally see it in the context of "V40 vs. V60, I liek the V60 more but it's less preftigiouf!! What should I do???"

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Blindmelon
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Re: PSA: There is no such distinction as "V15"

Postby Blindmelon » Sat Feb 04, 2012 2:31 pm

koalatriste wrote:
ph14 wrote:
IAFG wrote:
The current V25:

1 1 Wachtell Lipton Rosen & Katz 9.139 New York, NY
2 2 Cravath, Swaine & Moore LLP 8.735 New York, NY
3 3 Sullivan & Cromwell LLP 8.443 New York, NY
4 4 Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom LLP and Affiliates 8.430 New York, NY
5 5 Davis Polk & Wardwell 8.121 New York, NY
6 6 Simpson Thacher & Bartlett LLP 7.877 New York, NY
7 7 Weil, Gotshal & Manges LLP 7.858 New York, NY
8 9 Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP 7.766 New York, NY
9 11 Kirkland & Ellis LLP 7.496 Chicago, IL
10 10 Covington & Burling LLP 7.382 Washington, DC
11 15 Latham & Watkins LLP 7.335 New York, NY
12 13 Debevoise & Plimpton LLP 7.324 New York, NY
13 12 Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison LLP 7.177 New York, NY
13 8 Williams & Connolly LLP 7.177 Washington, DC
14 14 Gibson Dunn & Crutcher LLP 7.172 Los Angeles, CA
15 16 Sidley Austin LLP 7.087 Chicago, IL
16 19 Quinn Emanuel Urquhart & Sullivan LLP 6.868 Los Angeles, CA
17 23 Boies, Schiller & Flexner LLP 6.842 New York, NY
18 20 White & Case LLP 6.829 New York, NY
19 18 Jones Day 6.826 Washington, DC
20 21 Arnold & Porter LLP 6.692 Washington, DC
22 24 O'Melveny & [deleted] LLP 6.537 Los Angeles, CA
23 26 Morrison & Foerster LLP 6.506 San Francisco, CA
24 22 Shearman & Sterling LLP 6.478 New York, NY
25 25 Ropes & Gray LLP 6.473 Boston, MA



This "V25" list is blatant anti-Wilmer trolling.


Beat me to it.. hilarious.

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IAFG
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Re: PSA: There is no such distinction as "V15"

Postby IAFG » Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:46 pm

Blindmelon wrote:
koalatriste wrote:
This "V25" list is blatant anti-Wilmer trolling.


Beat me to it.. hilarious.

wow, sorry about that. i have no idea how that happened. wilmer's at 21. which is absurd in DC and possibly fair in NY, in my totally irrelevant opinion.

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Re: PSA: There is no such distinction as "V15"

Postby 2LLLL » Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:47 pm

Insofar as the "prestige" rankings track stability of firms, they're actually pretty good for a rough indicator. It should be no surprise that as you go further down the rankings, the stability decreases.



But see Latham & Watkins. I'm sure a lot of c/o 2008 first years were really glad for the "stability" that accompanied their (then) V10 firm...



This thread is spot-on, but unfortunately will not be credited in this forum. There are actually markets where DLA Piper is the top firm, as hard as it may be for some to believe...
Last edited by 2LLLL on Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ph14
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Re: PSA: There is no such distinction as "V15"

Postby ph14 » Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:48 pm

Does someone want to break down the top firms for Chicago/San Francisco/Los Angeles/Dallas/Boston and other non-NYC markets?

2LLLL
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Re: PSA: There is no such distinction as "V15"

Postby 2LLLL » Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:50 pm

Does someone want to break down the top firms for Chicago/San Francisco/Los Angeles/Dallas/Boston and other non-NYC markets?


From my knowledge, in Chicago Sidley Austin and K&E are the top dogs, Mayer Brown is up there, and actually Skadden has a strong office as well. In Boston, you're going Ropes, Wilmer Hale, and Goodwin Procter. Take that with a grain of salt because I don't live in either of those markets.
Last edited by 2LLLL on Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

nonprofit-prophet
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Re: PSA: There is no such distinction as "V15"

Postby nonprofit-prophet » Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:51 pm

ph14 wrote:Does someone want to break down the top firms for Chicago/San Francisco/Los Angeles/Dallas/Boston and other non-NYC markets?


http://www.chambersandpartners.com/

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Old Gregg
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Re: PSA: There is no such distinction as "V15"

Postby Old Gregg » Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:02 pm

But see Latham & Watkins. I'm sure a lot of c/o 2008 first years were really glad for the "stability" that accompanied their (then) V10 firm...


No need to be a tool and do the bluebook cite.

I said in my post that there are exceptions. But for the most part, layoffs tended to be fewer in the V15 than outside.

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Grizz
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Re: PSA: There is no such distinction as "V15"

Postby Grizz » Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:04 pm

2LLLL wrote:
Insofar as the "prestige" rankings track stability of firms, they're actually pretty good for a rough indicator. It should be no surprise that as you go further down the rankings, the stability decreases.



But see Latham & Watkins. I'm sure a lot of c/o 2008 first years were really glad for the "stability" that accompanied their (then) V10 firm...



This thread is spot-on, but unfortunately will not be credited in this forum. There are actually markets where DLA Piper is the top firm, as hard as it may be for some to believe...

Where?

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Old Gregg
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Re: PSA: There is no such distinction as "V15"

Postby Old Gregg » Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:05 pm

Where?


Just do big-Uzbekistan law bro. CoL is WAY better than MFH.

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Blindmelon
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Re: PSA: There is no such distinction as "V15"

Postby Blindmelon » Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:10 pm

ph14 wrote:Does someone want to break down the top firms for Chicago/San Francisco/Los Angeles/Dallas/Boston and other non-NYC markets?


Boston is roughly:
Ropes/Wilmer/Goodwin
Bingham/Skadden/Choate/FoleyHoag

Depends entirely on practice group though.

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Re: PSA: There is no such distinction as "V15"

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:45 pm

Grizz wrote:
2LLLL wrote:
Insofar as the "prestige" rankings track stability of firms, they're actually pretty good for a rough indicator. It should be no surprise that as you go further down the rankings, the stability decreases.



But see Latham & Watkins. I'm sure a lot of c/o 2008 first years were really glad for the "stability" that accompanied their (then) V10 firm...



This thread is spot-on, but unfortunately will not be credited in this forum. There are actually markets where DLA Piper is the top firm, as hard as it may be for some to believe...

Where?


question is: where won't they enjoy it?

edit: non-douchey response—baltimore. dla is the wachtell of baltimore.

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snailio
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Re: PSA: There is no such distinction as "V15"

Postby snailio » Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:53 pm

Prolly should just standardize on V-14 kinda like T-14

:twisted:


Actually for L.A. it would prolly be Gibson, Munger, Irell, Quinn, Latham, Skadden and O'Melveny. This is just a rough list, it would be dependent on your interests where they actually rated.

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Grizz
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Re: PSA: There is no such distinction as "V15"

Postby Grizz » Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote:edit: non-douchey response—baltimore. dla is the wachtell of baltimore.

I heard they set up the shell corporations for Stringer Bell.

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Re: PSA: There is no such distinction as "V15"

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:45 pm

The entire Vault rankings are good for one thing and one thing only: NYC Corporate. If you are interested in anything else, throw them in the trash.

Chambers & Partners are the only rankings worth looking at because it breaks it down by practice area which is the most important thing to any young lawyer. The recruiters know this, none of them look at Vault.

Someone asked about regional breakdowns. Again, practice area makes all the difference in the world. In Chicago, for example, the top litigation dogs are Bartlit Beck >>>>> Kirkland & Ellis/Mayer Brown/Jenner. For corporate, Sidley/K&E. Skadden is well respected in Chicago but not more respected than the home grown "Big Five" of K&E, Sidley, Mayer Brown, Winston and Jenner. Latham and Jones Day are also very strong in Chicago.

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ph14
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Re: PSA: There is no such distinction as "V15"

Postby ph14 » Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:The entire Vault rankings are good for one thing and one thing only: NYC Corporate. If you are interested in anything else, throw them in the trash.

Chambers & Partners are the only rankings worth looking at because it breaks it down by practice area which is the most important thing to any young lawyer. The recruiters know this, none of them look at Vault.

Someone asked about regional breakdowns. Again, practice area makes all the difference in the world. In Chicago, for example, the top litigation dogs are Bartlit Beck >>>>> Kirkland & Ellis/Mayer Brown/Jenner. For corporate, Sidley/K&E. Skadden is well respected in Chicago but not more respected than the home grown "Big Five" of K&E, Sidley, Mayer Brown, Winston and Jenner. Latham and Jones Day are also very strong in Chicago.


This is great info. I'd love for someone to break it down like this for some other markets.

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IAFG
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Re: PSA: There is no such distinction as "V15"

Postby IAFG » Sun Feb 05, 2012 1:31 am

Fresh Prince wrote:
But see Latham & Watkins. I'm sure a lot of c/o 2008 first years were really glad for the "stability" that accompanied their (then) V10 firm...


No need to be a tool and do the bluebook cite.

I said in my post that there are exceptions. But for the most part, layoffs tended to be fewer in the V15 than outside.

Might be true in general, but the line between V15 and V20 still doesn't make sense here.

For firms V11-15, three firms have no layoffs reported on LawSchucks, one had 10% of the firm laid off, and one had 6%.

For firms 16-20, two had no layoffs reported, two had 1% of the firm laid off and one had 15%.

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Re: PSA: There is no such distinction as "V15"

Postby c3pO4 » Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:19 am

ph14 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:The entire Vault rankings are good for one thing and one thing only: NYC Corporate. If you are interested in anything else, throw them in the trash.

Chambers & Partners are the only rankings worth looking at because it breaks it down by practice area which is the most important thing to any young lawyer. The recruiters know this, none of them look at Vault.

Someone asked about regional breakdowns. Again, practice area makes all the difference in the world. In Chicago, for example, the top litigation dogs are Bartlit Beck >>>>> Kirkland & Ellis/Mayer Brown/Jenner. For corporate, Sidley/K&E. Skadden is well respected in Chicago but not more respected than the home grown "Big Five" of K&E, Sidley, Mayer Brown, Winston and Jenner. Latham and Jones Day are also very strong in Chicago.


This is great info. I'd love for someone to break it down like this for some other markets.


SF is basically Keker, Mofo, Orrick, WSGR/Fenwick, Cooley, Boies, then the satellites of the wall street firms, and satellites of LA/PNW/DC firms like Quinn/Perkins/GDC.

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Old Gregg
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Re: PSA: There is no such distinction as "V15"

Postby Old Gregg » Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:25 am

no layoffs reported on LawSchucks,


Lawshucks is incomplete. Try again.

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IAFG
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Re: PSA: There is no such distinction as "V15"

Postby IAFG » Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:53 pm

Fresh Prince wrote:
no layoffs reported on LawSchucks,


Lawshucks is incomplete. Try again.

Oh then show us your more accurate and complete information friend

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Old Gregg
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Re: PSA: There is no such distinction as "V15"

Postby Old Gregg » Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:00 pm

IAFG wrote:
Fresh Prince wrote:
no layoffs reported on LawSchucks,


Lawshucks is incomplete. Try again.

Oh then show us your more accurate and complete information friend


I've been looking for one for ages. Best I could find is careers.abovethelaw.com, but that doesn't always specify numbers.

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IAFG
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Re: PSA: There is no such distinction as "V15"

Postby IAFG » Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:10 pm

Fresh Prince wrote:
IAFG wrote:
Fresh Prince wrote:
no layoffs reported on LawSchucks,


Lawshucks is incomplete. Try again.

Oh then show us your more accurate and complete information friend


I've been looking for one for ages. Best I could find is careers.abovethelaw.com, but that doesn't always specify numbers.

So both of us have imperfect information. At best, we can say no one really knows for sure.

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Re: PSA: There is no such distinction as "V15"

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:dla is the wachtell of baltimore.
LOL, this is what I'm going to start saying when people ask about my SA.

But in all seriousness, Chambers was way more helpful when I was researching Maryland firms, and I'm sure that goes for other smaller markets as well.




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