Do Biglaw Grades Suffice for DOJ Honors?

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
User avatar
sundance95
Posts: 2123
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 7:44 pm

Do Biglaw Grades Suffice for DOJ Honors?

Postby sundance95 » Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:09 am

Is there any empirical data out there on the GPA required for DOJ Honors? I'm specifically wondering about Civil Division, if that matters.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273256
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Do Biglaw Grades Suffice for DOJ Honors?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:03 am

That information is classified.

User avatar
bceagles182
Posts: 615
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:53 pm

Re: Do Biglaw Grades Suffice for DOJ Honors?

Postby bceagles182 » Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:04 am

Anonymous User wrote:That information is classified.



I don't have specific numbers but DOJ Honors is harder to get any old biglaw job. There are significantly fewer spots.

User avatar
mi-chan17
Posts: 428
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2009 3:55 am

Re: Do Biglaw Grades Suffice for DOJ Honors?

Postby mi-chan17 » Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:55 am

For AG Honors, Biglaw grades are necessary but not sufficient.

duckmoney
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 2:21 pm

Re: Do Biglaw Grades Suffice for DOJ Honors?

Postby duckmoney » Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:53 am

mi-chan17 wrote:For AG Honors, Biglaw grades are necessary but not sufficient.


This, and I would think it depends on the school and what the biglaw cutoff is. If you go to a T3 school where you need top 2% to get biglaw, that will probably put you in the running for Honors. On the other hand, if you go to CCN, someone at the rock bottom of the class can theoretically land biglaw (granted with extreme difficulty), but that person wouldn't have a shot in hell at honors.

User avatar
sundance95
Posts: 2123
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 7:44 pm

Re: Do Biglaw Grades Suffice for DOJ Honors?

Postby sundance95 » Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:20 pm

mi-chan17 wrote:For AG Honors, Biglaw grades are necessary but not sufficient.

I understand. I suppose my question is this: what level of grades are sufficient? Good enough for V5? V20? Do we know at all?

LawIdiot86
Posts: 1159
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:21 pm

Re: Do Biglaw Grades Suffice for DOJ Honors?

Postby LawIdiot86 » Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:29 pm

sundance95 wrote:
mi-chan17 wrote:For AG Honors, Biglaw grades are necessary but not sufficient.

I understand. I suppose my question is this: what level of grades are sufficient? Good enough for V5? V20? Do we know at all?


It's really impossible to say. There are effectively 30 AG Honors spots (not counting immigration) and ~4,000-8,000 applicants. Those are absurd odds compared to Biglaw and remember that AG hires into very specific groups. I imagine there are V20-capable people turned away from antitrust, civil and national security on a very regular basis given the tiny number of openings relative to the number of highly capable people applying.

For reference, I have a V50 capable friend at a T14 with a degree in econ and internships at the FTC and DOJ who has worked for economics consultants as a researcher and he wasn't given an interview.

User avatar
sundance95
Posts: 2123
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 7:44 pm

Re: Do Biglaw Grades Suffice for DOJ Honors?

Postby sundance95 » Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:31 pm

LawIdiot86 wrote:
sundance95 wrote:
mi-chan17 wrote:For AG Honors, Biglaw grades are necessary but not sufficient.

I understand. I suppose my question is this: what level of grades are sufficient? Good enough for V5? V20? Do we know at all?


It's really impossible to say. There are effectively 30 AG Honors spots (not counting immigration) and ~4,000-8,000 applicants. Those are absurd odds compared to Biglaw and remember that AG hires into very specific groups. I imagine there are V20-capable people turned away from antitrust, civil and national security on a very regular basis given the tiny number of openings relative to the number of highly capable people applying.

For reference, I have a V50 capable friend at a T14 with a degree in econ and internships at the FTC and DOJ who has worked for economics consultants as a researcher and he wasn't given an interview.

TYVM, just what I was looking for.

Citizen Genet
Posts: 516
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:03 am

Re: Do Biglaw Grades Suffice for DOJ Honors?

Postby Citizen Genet » Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:39 pm

sundance95 wrote:
mi-chan17 wrote:For AG Honors, Biglaw grades are necessary but not sufficient.

I understand. I suppose my question is this: what level of grades are sufficient? Good enough for V5? V20? Do we know at all?



As someone implied above, it's more about your ranking in your class than about your ability to get a job at particular Vault level. There is a New York Times article that indicated the average US News and World Report ranking for the law schools of Honors Program admits was around 30. Since DOJ is obviously hiring people at schools ranked 1-10, they are also hiring from schools that are below the 30 mark. Students at schools ranked 50-60 who are Top 5% don't have a great chance at top Vault firms, but probably have the grades needed for the Honors Program. Contrarily, someone at at Harvard ranked in the Top 20% probably have an okay shot a high Vault firms, but will likely get passed over for the Honors Program.

User avatar
sundance95
Posts: 2123
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 7:44 pm

Re: Do Biglaw Grades Suffice for DOJ Honors?

Postby sundance95 » Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:26 pm

^Thanks. Dig the XYZ screen name, btw.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273256
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Do Biglaw Grades Suffice for DOJ Honors?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:01 pm

To give you a picture of who does get hired, one of the more selective divisions (e.g., fed programs, civil appellate, civil rights) hired the #2 student from MVPB. The student had LR, board, DOJ internships, publications, great resume, and a feeder clerkship.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273256
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Do Biglaw Grades Suffice for DOJ Honors? U

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 25, 2012 2:43 am

Anonymous User wrote:To give you a picture of who does get hired, one of the more selective divisions (e.g., fed programs2, civil appellate, civil rights) hired the #2 student from MVPB. The student had LR, board, DOJ internships, publications, great resume, and a feeder clerkship.

What kind of doj internships and publications?
Also did this person clerk and then apply for Honors? I wouldn't be surprised to hear that most or all of their slots go to finished clerks and SLIP interns.

I want more about the ecOn law review doj guy that didn't make it. Sounds depressing and applicable.

Thoughts and knowledge welcome here.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273256
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Do Biglaw Grades Suffice for DOJ Honors?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:38 am

DOJ Honors is insanely competitive. At my T14, top quarter will get you a V25, maybe V10 but doesn't guarantee you even an interview at DOJ. The thing is that so few spots are available you can have killer grades and you still probably won't get it.

User avatar
thesealocust
Posts: 8445
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:50 pm

Re: Do Biglaw Grades Suffice for DOJ Honors?

Postby thesealocust » Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:28 pm

Fed Gov hiring also is much more agnostic to your law school; being at the T14 gives you a HUGE advantage relative to most other schools in big law hiring but a much more modest bump for the federales.

Also the budget situation means there are like 3 open fed positions for ever 10,000 or so applicants. Good luck!




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.