Bottom Half at 40's school, drop out?

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Anonymous User
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Bottom Half at 40's school, drop out?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:23 pm

I had a good scholarship for the first year so I've spent about 15k total for these first six months. I just checked my last grade and I got a B in a four credit class. I had only gotten one A- so now I"m below median.

LRW B
Contracts A-
Leg/Reg B+
Torts B+
Civ Pro B

This puts me at a 3.285 where the median is a hypothetical 3.3, but is probably inflated.

I wanted to be in the top 20% and get a good paying job when I'm done, but now I'm really worried. I was expecting an A- in Civ Pro because I seriously knew more than 90% of the other students, but I mis read one question slightly and I guess that destroyed my grade? (or something else happened that I don't even realize).

I have two credits less this semester than last. I do not think A's are realistic for me at all. Maybe A-s... But if I manage to make all A-'s during this semester (seems like a real longshot now) that only pushes my GPA up to 3.48. I'm not even sure a 3.48 is even in the top 1/3 here.

From LST it seems like top 1/3 at my school has a shot at good jobs (IMO). 10% Art. III clerks + 12% making 95k or more....

I think I would need that kind of opportunity to reasonable pay off my debt, which will be about 90k if I stick it out for all three years.

I know I made "averagish" grades at a T1 but should I drop out? I like the law but I'm concerned about debt and so is my wife (who is a massive expense by the way).

I'm looking for someone to magically make me feel better. Thank you.

005618502
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Re: Bottom Half at 40's school, drop out?

Postby 005618502 » Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:28 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I had a good scholarship for the first year so I've spent about 15k total for these first six months. I just checked my last grade and I got a B in a four credit class. I had only gotten one A- so now I"m below median.

LRW B
Contracts A-
Leg/Reg B+
Torts B+
Civ Pro B

This puts me at a 3.285 where the median is a hypothetical 3.3, but is probably inflated.

I wanted to be in the top 20% and get a good paying job when I'm done, but now I'm really worried. I was expecting an A- in Civ Pro because I seriously knew more than 90% of the other students, but I mis read one question slightly and I guess that destroyed my grade? (or something else happened that I don't even realize).

I have two credits less this semester than last. I do not think A's are realistic for me at all. Maybe A-s... But if I manage to make all A-'s during this semester (seems like a real longshot now) that only pushes my GPA up to 3.48. I'm not even sure a 3.48 is even in the top 1/3 here.

From LST it seems like top 1/3 at my school has a shot at good jobs (IMO). 10% Art. III clerks + 12% making 95k or more....

I think I would need that kind of opportunity to reasonable pay off my debt, which will be about 90k if I stick it out for all three years.

I know I made "averagish" grades at a T1 but should I drop out? I like the law but I'm concerned about debt and so is my wife (who is a massive expense by the way).

I'm looking for someone to magically make me feel better. Thank you.


lol, really?

Dont want to be mean, but you dont know that.

I wouldnt drop out with your scholarship. Work your ass off and kill it next semester. There is no reason why you cannot be T20% after next semester.

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20130312
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Re: Bottom Half at 40's school, drop out?

Postby 20130312 » Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:42 pm

Why don't you just wait and see how you do at OCI?

Anonymous User
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Re: Bottom Half at 40's school, drop out?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:55 pm

AssumptionRequired: yeah I know, but I was very social/group study groups so I had a good idea of where everyone was at. Plus I worked way harder in Civ Pro than I did in Torts and Leg/Reg.... Obviously that was a wild assumption but it is accurate to say that I outworked my class and they worked me on the exam, whereas my other grades corresponded to my talent/work ethic pretty well.

Also, I would have to make A's to get into the top 20% and I just don't see how that is going to happen. Maybe I'm way off on the medians but I would think with a B+ curve the top twenty percent would be around 3.55 or 3.6? Maybe higher??

InGoodFaith: I am just a lowly 1L but I didn't think I would even get interviews at firms that paid more than 50k with median grades.


The only thing I can think of-- unless I'm wrong about getting interviews-- is signing up for LRAP and trying to get a public service job. I know my wife would spend our way into the poor house pretty quick on a 45k a year salary but at least there are benefits and room for advancement????

Beestinga
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Re: Bottom Half at 40's school, drop out?

Postby Beestinga » Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:02 pm

...
Last edited by Beestinga on Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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20160810
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Re: Bottom Half at 40's school, drop out?

Postby 20160810 » Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:45 pm

That's a high median GPA. Those grades would be pretty respectable at a lot of schools. Wait out next semester and see what happens, no reason you can't go from a B+ to an A- student.

de5igual
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Re: Bottom Half at 40's school, drop out?

Postby de5igual » Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:AssumptionRequired: yeah I know, but I was very social/group study groups so I had a good idea of where everyone was at. Plus I worked way harder in Civ Pro than I did in Torts and Leg/Reg.... Obviously that was a wild assumption but it is accurate to say that I outworked my class and they worked me on the exam, whereas my other grades corresponded to my talent/work ethic pretty well.

Also, I would have to make A's to get into the top 20% and I just don't see how that is going to happen. Maybe I'm way off on the medians but I would think with a B+ curve the top twenty percent would be around 3.55 or 3.6? Maybe higher??

InGoodFaith: I am just a lowly 1L but I didn't think I would even get interviews at firms that paid more than 50k with median grades.


The only thing I can think of-- unless I'm wrong about getting interviews-- is signing up for LRAP and trying to get a public service job. I know my wife would spend our way into the poor house pretty quick on a 45k a year salary but at least there are benefits and room for advancement????


i think you're wildly speculating the class % cutoffs. look up nalp and see where they actually are. at some schools (all with B+ curves), top 25% can be as high as upper 3.6s to as low as upper 3.4s.

Anonymous User
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Re: Bottom Half at 40's school, drop out?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:50 pm

This made me feel better. Thank you.

What if the 90k is off? That is a low estimate I think....

next semester I only owe 5k, but my scholly gets smaller from there. for the next two years and one half years I'll owe 48k or so in tuition and fees depending on whether the state cuts back on funding or not. Our two and a half year COL spending projection right now, unless we cut back, is probably more like 70k. (we live in an expensive area of the country, and while my wife works, she actually is a net loss on the books). Plus the 15k we are in, and her 20k from her expensive and highly ranked undergrad that sapped all her ambition, we are maybe looking at 168k in total debt?

Ok I see now that my 90k was way off.

What is 168k a month in payments? I think I'll HAVE to do an LRAP. I mean even if we cut way back and we get that 168k down to say, 138k, that is still a ton of debt.

PS I just spoke to my career service/grade people (don't worry they couldn't tell I was panicking on the inside) and my school does not actually have a published median. He said that unless you are in the top 1/3 they won't comply with an employer or student request for a class rank check. I guess they just know the median is a B+ in every class and they can do an eyeball test, or they couldn't look at your GPA and just assume the median is about a 3.3. Like I said it probably wouldn't matter here because if you aren't in the top 1/3 I'm not sure you could interview with firms that are overly grade sensitive. Maybe a meaningless FYI

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Re: Bottom Half at 40's school, drop out?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:51 pm

SBL wrote:That's a high median GPA. Those grades would be pretty respectable at a lot of schools. Wait out next semester and see what happens, no reason you can't go from a B+ to an A- student.



But wouldn't an employer only care about a class rank? Otherwise it would be wildly unfair to students who go to the other school in the state whose median is a 3.0.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: Bottom Half at 40's school, drop out?

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:28 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
SBL wrote:That's a high median GPA. Those grades would be pretty respectable at a lot of schools. Wait out next semester and see what happens, no reason you can't go from a B+ to an A- student.



But wouldn't an employer only care about a class rank? Otherwise it would be wildly unfair to students who go to the other school in the state whose median is a 3.0.


A fair amount of non-NLJ employers are only looking for 3.0 and up. So yes, people that attend schools with lower curves are at an clear disadvantage. However, the strength of the advantage given to schools varies on the strength of the school itself and the markets the school is competitive in (re: graduates that attend schools that only feed into one medium/small instate market don't really receive a boost, but graduates of schools where all of the graduates don't directly compete with each other outside of OCI in terms of market do receive a boost).

Anonymous User
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Re: Bottom Half at 40's school, drop out?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:42 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
SBL wrote:That's a high median GPA. Those grades would be pretty respectable at a lot of schools. Wait out next semester and see what happens, no reason you can't go from a B+ to an A- student.



But wouldn't an employer only care about a class rank? Otherwise it would be wildly unfair to students who go to the other school in the state whose median is a 3.0.


A fair amount of non-NLJ employers are only looking for 3.0 and up. So yes, people that attend schools with lower curves are at an clear disadvantage. However, the strength of the advantage given to schools varies on the strength of the school itself and the markets the school is competitive in (re: graduates that attend schools that only feed into one medium/small instate market don't really receive a boost, but graduates of schools where all of the graduates don't directly compete with each other outside of OCI in terms of market do receive a boost).


Your Tulane Trolling knows no bounds.

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theavrock
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Re: Bottom Half at 40's school, drop out?

Postby theavrock » Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
SBL wrote:That's a high median GPA. Those grades would be pretty respectable at a lot of schools. Wait out next semester and see what happens, no reason you can't go from a B+ to an A- student.



But wouldn't an employer only care about a class rank? Otherwise it would be wildly unfair to students who go to the other school in the state whose median is a 3.0.


A fair amount of non-NLJ employers are only looking for 3.0 and up. So yes, people that attend schools with lower curves are at an clear disadvantage. However, the strength of the advantage given to schools varies on the strength of the school itself and the markets the school is competitive in (re: graduates that attend schools that only feed into one medium/small instate market don't really receive a boost, but graduates of schools where all of the graduates don't directly compete with each other outside of OCI in terms of market do receive a boost).


Your Tulane Trolling knows no bounds.


Nothing to add other than why so anonymous bro?

Anonymous User
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Re: Bottom Half at 40's school, drop out?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:17 am

Constructive criticism does add something bro

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romothesavior
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Re: Bottom Half at 40's school, drop out?

Postby romothesavior » Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:04 pm

Give it one more semester but then drop out if you don't turn it around.

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20160810
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Re: Bottom Half at 40's school, drop out?

Postby 20160810 » Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:04 pm

romothesavior wrote:Give it one more semester but then drop out if you don't turn it around.

This is probably TCR.

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romothesavior
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Re: Bottom Half at 40's school, drop out?

Postby romothesavior » Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:51 pm

FWIW, best data we have indicates that ~60% of all law students find permanent, JD-required full-time jobs in this economy. Even that number may be high. Of those 60%, only about 1 in 5 is working at an NLJ 250 firm. The rest are working at small firms, government agencies, etc. The overwhelming majority of the 60% who get "real lawyer jobs" are making low to mid 5 figures, as can clearly be seen by the bimodal salary distribution charts we all know.

The numbers are rough, but the best extrapolation of employment info we've got suggests a small percentage of graduates get good high paying jobs, some others get solid PI or government work, a large minority get non-full time, non-permanent, or non JD-required jobs (paralegals, contract attorneys, people hired as baristas at Starbucks, etc... aka non lawyer jobs), and the majority or plurality work in shitty jobs working long workhours making salaries that don't justify the investment. Most law students are going to wind up un- or underemployed. The comment about 90% getting good jobs is laughable.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: Bottom Half at 40's school, drop out?

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:50 pm

theavrock wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Your Tulane Trolling knows no bounds.


Nothing to add other than why so anonymous bro?


I neither understand how Tulane was even brought into that, nor understand why that way anonymous.

Mods?

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Re: Bottom Half at 40's school, drop out?

Postby paulinaporizkova » Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:58 pm

AssumptionRequired wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I had a good scholarship for the first year so I've spent about 15k total for these first six months. I just checked my last grade and I got a B in a four credit class. I had only gotten one A- so now I"m below median.

LRW B
Contracts A-
Leg/Reg B+
Torts B+
Civ Pro B

This puts me at a 3.285 where the median is a hypothetical 3.3, but is probably inflated.

I wanted to be in the top 20% and get a good paying job when I'm done, but now I'm really worried. I was expecting an A- in Civ Pro because I seriously knew more than 90% of the other students, but I mis read one question slightly and I guess that destroyed my grade? (or something else happened that I don't even realize).

I have two credits less this semester than last. I do not think A's are realistic for me at all. Maybe A-s... But if I manage to make all A-'s during this semester (seems like a real longshot now) that only pushes my GPA up to 3.48. I'm not even sure a 3.48 is even in the top 1/3 here.

From LST it seems like top 1/3 at my school has a shot at good jobs (IMO). 10% Art. III clerks + 12% making 95k or more....

I think I would need that kind of opportunity to reasonable pay off my debt, which will be about 90k if I stick it out for all three years.

I know I made "averagish" grades at a T1 but should I drop out? I like the law but I'm concerned about debt and so is my wife (who is a massive expense by the way).

I'm looking for someone to magically make me feel better. Thank you.


lol, really?

Dont want to be mean, but you dont know that.


I wouldnt drop out with your scholarship. Work your ass off and kill it next semester. There is no reason why you cannot be T20% after next semester.


he knows a hell of a lot more than you. stop posting here 0L, you are so fucking annoying it's unbelievable.

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20130312
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Re: Bottom Half at 40's school, drop out?

Postby 20130312 » Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote:my wife (who is a massive expense by the way).


Just noticed this, lol'd.

BeenDidThat
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Re: Bottom Half at 40's school, drop out?

Postby BeenDidThat » Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:07 pm

paulinaporizkova wrote:
AssumptionRequired wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I had a good scholarship for the first year so I've spent about 15k total for these first six months. I just checked my last grade and I got a B in a four credit class. I had only gotten one A- so now I"m below median.

LRW B
Contracts A-
Leg/Reg B+
Torts B+
Civ Pro B

This puts me at a 3.285 where the median is a hypothetical 3.3, but is probably inflated.

I wanted to be in the top 20% and get a good paying job when I'm done, but now I'm really worried. I was expecting an A- in Civ Pro because I seriously knew more than 90% of the other students, but I mis read one question slightly and I guess that destroyed my grade? (or something else happened that I don't even realize).

I have two credits less this semester than last. I do not think A's are realistic for me at all. Maybe A-s... But if I manage to make all A-'s during this semester (seems like a real longshot now) that only pushes my GPA up to 3.48. I'm not even sure a 3.48 is even in the top 1/3 here.

From LST it seems like top 1/3 at my school has a shot at good jobs (IMO). 10% Art. III clerks + 12% making 95k or more....

I think I would need that kind of opportunity to reasonable pay off my debt, which will be about 90k if I stick it out for all three years.

I know I made "averagish" grades at a T1 but should I drop out? I like the law but I'm concerned about debt and so is my wife (who is a massive expense by the way).

I'm looking for someone to magically make me feel better. Thank you.


lol, really?

Dont want to be mean, but you dont know that.


I wouldnt drop out with your scholarship. Work your ass off and kill it next semester. There is no reason why you cannot be T20% after next semester.


he knows a hell of a lot more than you. stop posting here 0L, you are so fucking annoying it's unbelievable.


Gotta love ad hominems where the substance of the hominem's post is right on.

OP: You don't know what other people knew when they stepped into the testing room, and you don't know what their exam-as-written looked like.

As for the future, I'd ask to go over my exams (especially ones I didn't do well on) with the professor. If you do feel like you worked really hard & you truly did understand the material & were able to recall it on the spot in the exam room, then your problem has to be with how you constructed your answers (assuming essay q's). That's pretty fixable, and includes speaking with profs and making sure to do as many practice exams as possible before next semester's finals.

blsingindisguise
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Re: Bottom Half at 40's school, drop out?

Postby blsingindisguise » Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:54 am

My advice:

1) In your first year, you should focus on grades no matter what, and you should give yourself at least a year to get the best grades you can. There's a very good chance you'll at least move into the top half, if not better, and the cost of one more semester to give it a shot isn't that high. Work hard and see how well you can do - sometimes there are shifts from first to second semester.

2) Do the journal and moot court competitions - no being on a secondary journal or moot court won't open the same doors law review does, but they'll still give you something that will look nice in a first-year associate bio on a firm web page (especially if it's not the kind of firm that gets the T6ers) and that's at least a slight leg up in the job search.

3) After this semester, reassess. Very few law students in today's economy can coast into a good job on grades. For everyone else it depends partly on how much you actually want to be a lawyer and what you're willing to do to get there (and also, to be fair, what you're capable of doing). The more you want to do it and are willing to do whatever it takes to get a job, the more ok it is to stay in a less than top school with less than top grades. You may have to suffer through dozens and dozens of seemingly fruitless "informational interviews" with alumni before finally making one useful connection. You may have to go through a significant period post-graduation of sending out hundreds of resumes and/or doing unpaid internships. I can't tell you that this is or isn't worth doing, it's only a matter of how much you want to practice law and what your other options are. You may start out your career in an insurance defense firm or a municipal government job. Both of these things can be parlayed into decent careers, but it's a harder path.

Again, focus on your grades for now and reassess in a year.




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